Macarrés

[Aix]

Now that I've experimented a little with macarons, I'm curious about making the square macarons that were all the rage in Paris lately. How do you shape them?

Also, I'm trying to make a special batch to be distributed as gifts at a wedding. Unfortunately the boxes have already been purchased and they are rather small. So I'm trying to make flatter macarons. How can I alter the recipe to limit how how much the puff up and out?

BTW I'm using the following proportions: 1 almonds, 1 confect. sugar, 1 granulated sugar, 3/4 egg whites.

TIA

[Wendy DeBord]

I just wanted to bump this post up and see if anyone knows the answers to Aix's questions. I'd also love to know how they shape them.........are they baked in molds?

[Aix]

I just wanted to bump this post up and see if anyone knows the answers to Aix's questions. I'd also love to know how they shape them.........are they baked in molds?

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Thank you Sinclair.

I don't believe they are baked or shaped in molds because the macarons wouldn't develop feet.

I have a theory. I think they pipe out a square with extended corners (like a 4-pointed star). That way when they puff up in the oven, they just fill out the lines to a square. I tried experimenting a bit yesterday but my ratio was off and I tried to change the formula a bit to make them flatter. They didn't rise at all and the whole batch ended up in the garbage.

I'll try again on Thursday.

[chefpeon]

I've actually been waiting for someone to answer this too, because, well, I think I know, but I'm not sure I know. I'll just go out on a limb here.

I'm pretty sure those square guys are baked in those bakeable silicone mold things. I looked on the JB Prince web site and saw a lot of flexipans on there, but I didn't see any cube shapes.

Anyone know who sells those? Do they exist?

Also, I'm trying to make a special batch to be distributed as gifts at a wedding. Unfortunately the boxes have already been purchased and they are rather small. So I'm trying to make flatter macarons. How can I alter the recipe to limit how how much they puff up and out?

I believe altering your recipe will mess too much with the texture of your macarons. All you need to do is use less batter, and again, the key here is to control the shape of them by baking them in a mold.

[chefpeon]

I don't believe they are baked or shaped in molds because the macarons wouldn't develop feet.

And feet are a good thing? Well, for humans yes. Pastry? No.

BTW I'm using the following proportions: 1 almonds, 1 confect. sugar, 1 granulated sugar, 3/4 egg whites.

Your formula seems so similar to Financiers. Financiers are baked in molds. So, I'm just sayin'......

[Aix]

And feet are a good thing? Well, for humans yes. Pastry? No.

Your formula seems so similar to Financiers. Financiers are baked in molds. So, I'm just sayin'......

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By "feet" I mean the little ruffled rim that develops around the edge when baking. I didn't make up the term. If it were up to me I'd call it something else. Trust me!

I don't want to have a cakey macaron like a financier. I think a macaron needs to be baked unobstructed in order to get a crispy exterior.

I'm going to try piping it with a square mold. I'll have to make my own, and alter the square slightly to push the edges inward. I always let them sit for a good half hour before baking; hopefully that will be enough for it to keep its shape.

[chefpeon]

By "feet" I mean the little ruffled rim that develops around the edge when baking. I didn't make up the term. If it were up to me I'd call it something else. Trust me!

Oh, I know what you meant by "feet"....it's actually a pastry term. We PC's don't like feet....we

do things to avoid "feet".......for instance, when you pour or dip petit fours and let them drain off on a screen....this prevents feet and lets us re-use whatever chocolate or fondant that has dripped away.

However if you WANT feet, then yes, I agree, it would be hard to achieve with a mold. I would almost think that if you want that crispy exterior and the square shape, you'd either have to give up one or the other. BUT PERHAPS......hmmmm.....what if you started your macarons in the mold. Just enough to set. Then unmold them and let them continue baking that way? Just a thought.

[chefpeon]

More info (except on how to produce the square Macarons!):

Ah, yes.....all the info on Macaroons......EXCEPT how to make them square!

C'mon.....Give it up, you Frenchies!!!!

I still say a mold is involved somehow.

What do you think, Redsugar?

[Redsugar]

Chefperson: I am generally inclined to agree w/ you that these macaroons are formed in molds.

Dehillerin (http://www.e-dehillerin.fr/presentationA.html), for example, wasn’t informative at all. But, wait a moment, petits fours molds are manufactured in many shapes, including square! There are numerous high-quality silicone brands readily available, such as Gastroflex.

The adventurous must strive first to approximate the technique – which, btw, will be an exacting process (much more fastidious than shaping the traditional macaroon "sandwiches"), considering that three layers are to be enclosed! The square macaroons produced by Ladurée, Hermé, and other Paris pâtisseries, have such a consistently well-coated (and molded) appearance, we could be persuaded that they're covered by poured fondants.

Our brainstorming continues....

Edited September 7, 2004 by Redsugar (log)

[Drewman]

I made a stencil out of a piece a plastic air curtain from the walk in refrigerator door (I told the chef it was already broken!) I cut a bunch of small squares with an exacto knife, piped the batter into the holes and gently evened everything with a palette knife. Remove the stencil and procede as usual.

[nicolekaplan]

i would have to completely disagree with the mold theory. your macaron batter should be on the stiff side so that it holds a bit of a shape when piped. i spent some time in the herme kitchen and all macarons were made with italian meringue, i think this help with the stiffer texture. then just outline a square and fill it in. a quick bang to settle the shape and a good airdry until the tops are set. then bake away. we have played around here with lots of shapes and this always works, however we prefer the macarangle and the mactagon. and please most importantly don't forget that feet are a sign of beauty, dress them up in manolos if you must but never eat macs without em'

[Aix]

i would have to completely disagree with the mold theory.  your macaron batter should be on the stiff side so that it holds a bit of a shape when piped.  i spent some time in the herme kitchen and all macarons were made with italian meringue, i think this help with the stiffer texture.  then just outline a square and fill it in.  a quick bang to settle the shape and a good airdry until the tops are set.  then bake away.  we have played around here with lots of shapes and this always works, however we prefer the macarangle and the mactagon.  and please most importantly don't forget that feet are a sign of beauty, dress them up in manolos if you must but never eat macs without em'

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So glad you chimed in Nicole! Your method is exactly what I suspected. Just curious though: What piping tip do you use?

[chefpeon]

Interesting stuff about piping the cookie out and then letting it sit to form a shell before it bakes.

I never would have thought of that. I'm so used to getting stuff in the oven IMMEDIATELY (for one reason or another)!

[Wendy DeBord]

Interesting stuff about piping the cookie out and then letting it sit to form a shell before it bakes.

I never would have thought of that. I'm so used to getting stuff in the oven IMMEDIATELY (for one reason or another)!

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Classic french macaroons are the only cookie that I can think of where you do this method (air dry before baking). It's an important part of the process of making these.

[Redsugar]

Would les maîtres in Hermé's kitchen prepare a version of the Macarons de Nancy batter? That would be an Italian-meringue type of macaroon.

Far be it from me to contest Nicole Kaplan's understanding of this matter. But, for our own purposes, should the mold-theory be completely discounted as a means of making the square-shaped macaroons? Perhaps I am misunderstanding the exactness of the prodecure.

Earlier today, I received an e-mail response from a chef w/ very capable technical knowledge. She wrote in response to my inquiry re the topic at hand. I shall not reveal her identity because (a) I have not asked her permission, and (b) it is not prudent to make anything disputatious about the issue. She wrote:

You are indeed correct. They use special pans. If you would like to recreate these lovely cookies and want to do them in a shape, there are number of places where you can get these pans. The latest and greatest thing is called a "flexipan. These are silicon baking pans in all sorts of shapes and sizes. The nice thing about them is that it's easy to get the pastries out of them. Also, they are good in hot or cold preparations. There are a number of places you can get them. I order them from J.B. Prince (www.jbprince.com). Have fun.

Oh well, perhaps my two-cents'-worth have been devalued! But I do appreciate the belief that "feet are a sign of beauty" on macaroons. Exquisite!

[PastryLady]

If you find a good cake supply store they have square tips. Betty Homemaker christmas time cookie press might be an option too if they make a square disk too.

[tan319]

i would have to completely disagree with the mold theory.  your macaron batter should be on the stiff side so that it holds a bit of a shape when piped.  i spent some time in the herme kitchen and all macarons were made with italian meringue, i think this help with the stiffer texture.  then just outline a square and fill it in.  a quick bang to settle the shape and a good airdry until the tops are set.  then bake away.  we have played around here with lots of shapes and this always works, however we prefer the macarangle and the mactagon.  and please most importantly don't forget that feet are a sign of beauty, dress them up in manolos if you must but never eat macs without em'

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Would one fold the almond flour, etc, into the Italian meringue?

I've never made macarons and am working up to trying them.

LOVE these square guys!

Oh, and is the tip on the Italian meringue differnt from what Herme' does in his book recipes?

I've eyeballed the greenspan/herme books but don't own them.

Next big buy will be the pro Hermes book.

I've been wanting it for awhile now.

Thanks for any info you guys can pass on!

[nicolekaplan]

aix - i always use a large round tip for macs, maybe 1/2 inch wide. ir doesn't matter much you just don't want to deflate your mix with a too small tip

tan319 - you would fold your TPT into the italian meringue just as you would with plain old meringue and fold, fold, fold.

as for the ongoing mold debate, i still can't believe they would be baked in a mold because i have eaten macaree and they have feet, and they are never perfectly square. i just don't see how that would be possible in a mold, but if someone can reproduce them with a mold maybe they could post some pics. but i like the idea of the square tip if you could get a large one, that might be a good way to go.

[dejaq]

I do beleive flexpan is what they are using, here are two formulas, one cooked (italian) second french, good luck .

Mix:

Almond Flour 26.5

Powdered sugar 26.5

whites 8+/-

Italian Meringue:

Egg Whites 8

Granulated Sugar 26.5

Cook to 121 C.

------------------------------------------------------

Mix:

Almond flour 8.5

Powdered sugar 8.5

Mix:

Powdered Sugar 5.75

Cocao Powder 1

Whip:

Egg Whites 7

sugar 1.75

Red color

[Wendy DeBord]

Could you pipe it in flexipans, freeze it raw, then unmold and bake as usual? Or I had been thinking they could do a partical bake, freeze to release and continue baking. Or....why not, if you bake it in a flexipan wouldn't you get feet on the top as it expands during baking (this is my best guess)?

I don't know, it just seems damn impossible to get consistant squares piped out. Even with a square pastry tip or using a form when you lift up, it alway effects the sharpness and thickness of your corners. I can't pipe a perfect square with-out going back and fussing with it.

[chromedome]

Classic french macaroons are the only cookie that I can think of where you do this method (air dry before baking).

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I've seen recipes for several types of Christmas cookies that call for an overnight drying stage. These, like macarrons, are usually based on egg whites.

[tan319]

i spent some time in the herme kitchen and all macarons were made with italian meringue, i think this help with the stiffer texture. then just outline a square and fill it in. a quick bang to settle the shape and a good airdry until the tops are set. then bake away.

Thanks for the tips, nicole.

Is there anyway we could get you to talk about your time spent in his kitchen?

W/o violating any confidences?

I'm sure most would love to hear about how an operation like his does all the fantastic work.

Thanks for considering!

[chefpeon]

I've never made macarons and am working up to trying them

Whew... :blush:I was embarrassed to admit that I too, have never made them, but tan beat

me to it.....so I don't feel.......so ALONE

But that's going to change today. My day off, and I usually have nothing to do with baking

on my day off, but my beloved cat just got killed by coyotes, and I need to do something

to drown my sorrow and get my mind off it.

So.

The macaroon recipe I found, seems that it's so thick you can't even pipe it. I suspected as

much when the recipe said you form the paste into balls with your hands. If that's the case,

then I figure I could form a square pretty easily. Is that the wrong consistency? The consistency

you guys talk about seems to be much thinner than that.

Also, confirming the recent "rage" that macaroons seem to be having....the new Uster catalog

featured them on a couple of pages. They are pictured as being sandwiched together with a filling.

What would this filling typically be.......some sort of buttercream?

[chefpeon]

Mix:

Almond Flour 26.5

Powdered sugar 26.5

whites 8+/-

Italian Meringue:

Egg Whites 8

Granulated Sugar 26.5

Cook to 121 C.

------------------------------------------------------

Mix:

Almond flour 8.5

Powdered sugar 8.5

Mix:

Powdered Sugar 5.75

Cocao Powder 1

Whip:

Egg Whites 7

sugar 1.75

Red color

I assume all the numbers above are gram weights?

[dejaq]

I assume all the numbers above are gram weights?

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Actually they are ounce measurements.