Lyon

[balmagowry]

OK, obviously I'm wrong. Looked up Dame Tartine and she is certainly a popular character in that part of the world, and the lyrics of the song do explain why she would be associated with sweets and friandises. (And BTW the Monts D'Or might be associated geographically with Mont Dore - but that's another investigation....) But looking again at Bux's word-by-word juxtaposition, it now seems obvious that "injuries" is intended to be the translation of "Dame." By an extremely convoluted mental gyration I can see where there might be some reverse logic in this, as "damn" in English certainly constitutes an "injure" in French - but unless someone in the translating chain has dyslexia or Asperger's Syndrome (which wouldn't really surprise me, now I think of it) that's a pretty long shot. "Dame" - "Injury." Well, that'll give me something to chew on for a while.

Lucy - I think you should go for it! And once you've translated the French into intelligible English, maybe you can also get them to let you tranlate the French into intelligible French.

[bleudauvergne]

The one I recall (without my notes) is the Maison Rousseau.

Yes, that's a great place for oysters. You can also get a fabulous fish soup there.

Edited May 18, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[Bux]

Rousseau rings a bell. Attractive place with nice display of shellfish and a selection of crisp white wines by the glass, or at least a choice between Muscadet and the more local Macon Blanc.

[andrew_j_craig]

This thread, with its minor tangents and linguistic conundrums, has entertained me no end. For that, I am grateful to all contributors.

I will record my appreciation by penning a report of my dinner at either Gourmet de Seze or L'Auberge de l'Ile, the two on my short list. Pierre Orsi lost at least two customers - my partner and me - by reason of its shameful web site.

Any side trips for market oysters or lunches at bouchons will also be noted. I am there in late May so in early June I'll start a new thread with some thoughts and impressions.

I am also keen to take up the Bernachon v Rich'art chocolate challenge. Bernachon seems to get the fame and glory but I am told by my Lyon friend that from Rich'art, "les petits carres fins fondant sur la langue sont un delice" and that the "le venezuelien a 92% de cacao est amer a souhait." Both are in the 6eme, in Cours Franklin Roosevelt.

PS Note to restauranteurs - when building your website, stay away from Flash and keep your site designers on a tight leash. Strive for uncluttered presentation, a few sample menus, clear contact details and perhaps a map and a few indicative snaps. Flash and other wizzbang niceties will do nothing to make me patronise your restaurant

[Bux]

PS Note to restauranteurs - when building your website, stay away from Flash and keep your site designers on a tight leash. Strive for uncluttered presentation, a few sample menus, clear contact details and perhaps a map and a few indicative snaps. Flash and other wizzbang niceties will do nothing to make me patronise your restaurant

Go forth and spread the gospel, but I'd add a request for them to be sure to have the site easily navagable and to have both a site map and home page that were evidence of what one would find on the site as well as how to get to it. Oh yes, and keep those menus up to date, as hard as that may be.

[vedette]

Bonjour Bleu,

I recently found your blog, which was wonderful. Since the blog is finished I am contacting you here with a couple of questions.

When we order steak in France "a point" it is quite rare. Fine for us but not always for our companions. What is the next step up? Don't want well done.

We have been to Lyon a couple of times, but have not eaten at Splendid. We are bringing a few couples this summer and have reserved there. Do you have an opinion about the restaurant? Or particular dishes?

Thanks,

Mark

NB: This message was posted in another thread where replies would have been disruptive to the thread. We've moved this here to start a new thread. All those with information about le Splendid that will help this member are invited to respond here. The steak question is being discussed here. -- Bux

[bleudauvergne]

Dear Mark: Welcome to eGullet! These are two excellent questions for the France Forum. I am going to post them now.

[bleudauvergne]

This question was posted by vedette in the midst of another thread, and I think it merits its own discussion:

We have been to Lyon a couple of times, but have not eaten at Splendid. We are bringing a few couples this summer and have reserved there. Do you have an opinion about the restaurant? Or particular dishes?

Anyone have experiences eating at Le Splendid?

[Bux]

Is that Georges Blanc's place? I haven't been there.

[vedette]

Yes, Blanc's place.

[TarteTatin]

Wow.

We've been to Georges Blanc's place in Vonnas outside Macon twice, and the other more informal places of his in the same town, but I didn't know he had a place in Lyon.

It was the finest food we'd ever had. Twice.

Incredible.

We stayed there too.

They really know how to treat people. The food, the ambience, everything was perfect.

I realize he is a "celebrity chef" and the place is turning into an almost Georges Blanc town, but everything is always perfect there.

So, on that recommendation....this place?

Try it!

[bleudauvergne]

My only experience is in making reservations there, for someone else. The restaurant is a favorite for executive business lunches (perhaps that might say something about it, I don't know) being one metro stop from the train station.

Their staff making the reservation was cordial and efficient, and the person who ate there seemed quite happy with the meal although he didn't go into detail. I also know that they do have a nice outdoor area with a view of the old Brotteaux station, very pretty.

[tony h]

On paper this looks great – small country home on a an island in the river just north of Lyon’s centre. A tranquil setting for some great food – plus last night of the holiday – really looking forward to this.

This is Lyon’s river festival weekend and there a bloody great big temporary stage erected on the island right next to the restaurant. Taxi takes ages to get to the bridge as the round are large – we can’t cross the bridge – in fact we can’t even get on the island ‘cause we don’t have tickets for the show. Eventually the guy with the reservations list is found & we’re let through. Not a great start.

We find the restaurant which now looks a lot less idyllic. We were told that thought is salsa night (music, not the dip) – and that we’re luck as last week was speed metal night.

We rumbaed into the restaurant & were tangoed past the lovely looking dining room & deposited into the upstairs back room. This is where we sat for ages – I mean ages. People shuffled into the room & quickly left. The brad arrived – but was left on the opposite wall. We could see & even smell it – but not morsel came close to our lips. So we focused on the room. Take a lovely country house & add a touch of international minimalism – black floor – frosted glass doors & monotoned geometric paintings. Quite unwelcoming. In fact – we felt like unwelcome guests (had Gary Marshall be on the phone to warn them – who knew?).

Anyway – eventually the utterly stunning pre-starters arrived & out fears were swept aside: an array of herb tempura and succulently braised vegetables on a skewers. I passed on the quails egg but I believe they were also pretty good.

The menu arrived – it was a poem. A bloody big one. The chef arrived alter to tell us what was actually being served – there was a choice of 3 courses or 5 courses. No choice of dishes – everyone got the same – the only thing to ask ourselves was – are we hungry or very hungry. Very.

First up was a stunning little tart of spring & summer vegetables with a dollop of mustard ice cream. The dish was hot so by the end any the remaining ice cream had melted into a lovely sauce. Very good – only gripe – a little too many peas. Very good satisfying pastry.

Next was the star – not just of the meal – but of the whole trip: large pieces of lobster sitting on a large ravioli of mango & coriander - with a lobster nage perfumed with Thai spices. Its fairly difficult to describe just how good this was – Thai lobster soup with the firepower of a exceptionally good French kitchen behind it – the mango, lobster & coriander married so well together and we held together by an above average stock.

The next was another fish dish – mountain lake fish (Chevalier du lac). This was better than the eel we had the previous night (Alain Chapel – will write up if I have time ) but there was something a little strange about it. I don’t recall the garnish.

Dish 4 was veal with asparagus & a to die for veal reduction. Came with some potatoes and a sour cherry. Great expect that the veal was cold. Would have retuned but we could find any on of the disappearing waiters.

Next was a hot mouse of foie gras – superfluous and probably in the wrong place. Would have helped to have it earlier in the meal.

The cheese course was quite excellent – and came with red grapes and preserved cumquats – the later were delicious.

Of course – by now we are quite stuffed but still have the dessert onslaught to come. Here is was definitely a case on volume over finesses. White chocolate mouse with raspberries; little cornets with liquorice ice cream; some amazing dish with rhubarb jelly plus quite a few other bits and pieces that I could barely look at let alone taste.

The cost – 75 euros for 3 courses – 95 for 5. A bargain for food of this quality. However – as we hated the restaurant itself so much it is kind of hard to recommend it. Not just because there a fucking loud band just outside our window – the staff was very unfriendly when they were present (expect the chef who was lovely). The bathroom were a scream – minimalist but with a wall of mirror where the stainless steel vagina-like urinal was mounted – not good. The frosted glass double doors felt like you were enclosed. The black floor was also off putting as was being put into a small back room with 3 other tables. Another small point – at Alain Chapel the night before the restaurant was pure theatre in the why the served some dishes – here because everyone go the same food – there was no – “oh look over there”. When the bill arrived they managed to fold it up an put a red wax seal on it – why worry about such superfluous details when dining in the room is itself fairly miserable.

Anyway - worth it for the food – but not for the experience.

[bleudauvergne]

This is Lyon’s river festival weekend and there a bloody great big temporary stage erected on the island right next to the restaurant.  Taxi takes ages to get to the bridge as the round are large – we can’t cross the bridge – in fact we can’t even get on the island ‘cause we don’t have tickets for the show.  Eventually the guy with the reservations list is found & we’re let through.  Not a great start.

I'm so sorry that the events from the festival, and the music set you off on a bad foot with the restaurant. It seems that this was a major element of your dissatisfaction. It should be noted that it was not just up the river on the island that was a cacophany of music, but also the entire Lyonnais region, as last night's annual music festival took place. Public transport outside of the metro system was stopped and much of the cities main thoroughfares were blocked, thus resulting in traffic jams everywhere. Loud music is the custom in Lyon one night a year, and unfortunately you had reservations for dinner with high hopes for a flawless experience on that very night. Even inside our home in Lyon, which has 2 foot thick stone walls and normally quite tranquil, the music was heard until 2 or three in the morning. It's only one day a year, unfortunately you expected silence and that would have been impossible anywhere. I doubt that the restaurant could have done anything to stop it.

Edited June 22, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[tony h]

Thanks for your note. Its not just one night 'though - there was a concert (v heavy rock) the previous weekend and they could have warned us.

In reality - the music wasn't the problem - it was the misery in the dining room that got to us far more.

[MobyP]

Did you consider Bocuse? What else were you doing in Lyon - did you try any of the famed Bouchons?

[vedette]

It's unfortunate when restaurants forget that they are not just in the food business, they are in the hospitality business. They should provide not only a good meal, but also a good experience, which is what most people remember long after they have forgotten the taste of the food.

[tony h]

Did you consider Bocuse? What else were you doing in Lyon - did you try any of the famed Bouchons?

I thought about it but I reckon that he's one of those people living off past glories - just another 3 star to tick off the list as someone said. After recent bad experiences in Paris I am now happy to avoid overpriced 3 stars. I was also advised to avoid Leon de Lyon & Pyramide. I would have gone up to Roanne for Troisgros but they were booked the nights I could make.

I did search out one of the bouchons in my free evening but didn't make it as I was not feeling good - too much heat & not enough water - typical brit.

The only other restaurant of note on this trip was Clos du Violette (sp) in Aix. Easily the best meal of the trip but I didn't make any notes. Aix is a shithole so I wouldn’t recommend anyone go there just for a meal - but if you're nearby its certainly worth a look.

Apart from that I do remember standing in the fields of chateauxneuf du pape & blaming it for all the hangovers I've ever had - then going off for a drink.

Edited June 22, 2004 by blind lemon higgins (log)

[andrew_j_craig]

I've been remiss in not reporting on Auberge de l'Ileearlier. I dined there in late May but work commitments intervened shortly after my return.

An interesting thread on poor menu translations prompted me to choose this place, among several other interesting suggestions.

I retained a copy of the tasting menu, and some additional notes Iscribbled at the time about the food. Alas, I wasn't focussed enough to record the wines or say much about the decor. In this report, I've retained the French text (minus the accents) as it appeared on the menu card given to us at the end of the meal, in each case offering my own translation (open to corrections). The extras (amuse bouche, petits fours etc) I've described in English.

Lyon in late May was hot and the air thick with pollen - a nasty cocktail for a hay fever sufferer. Mercifully, by early evening, the allergy was in retreat and my palate in relatively good form.

No written menus are offered on arrival and instead you are directly to take an aperitif outside under the oaktree in the courtyard. The chef explains in florally French the 3 (€75) and 5 (€95) course tasting opens (no a la carte). We chose the 5 course. We enjoyed an aperitif (Billecart Salmon Rose Brut, €18 per glass). To accompany this, we were given a hors-d-oeuvre plate consisting of "beignets d'herbes aromatiques" (green herb fritters), sweet potato and beetroot chips, caramelised gingerbread with crab and green apple and a mini vegetable club sandwich.

The batter surrounding the herb fritters was thin like lattice with an agreeable crunch. The flavour of the mint dominated, but it was possible to see the coriander, basil and tarragon. I overhead a waiter saying to guests nearby that there were 5 herbs in total. I couldn't detect the fifth by taste or sight, nor I can recall now what he said it was. The chips were greaseless, well salted, very thin. The gingerbread with crab was the highlight of the plate: the burnt toffee characters of the bread off set by the sharpness of the apple with delicate shreds of tasty crab. A happy combination. The cubes of club sandwich were pretty but left me with no particular flavour memory.

We moved inside. We ordered two half bottles of wine. My first choice white, a Condrieu 1/2 was out of stock as was my first choice red, a 1/2 of Cote Rotie. The Chablis and St Joseph were acceptable replacements, each at around the €40 mark. As mentioned, I have no notes indicating more details of provenance. Unsurprising, the wine list had aggressive mark ups on esteemed vintages.

The first amuse was a poached quail's egg with honey sabayon and sherry vinegar. This chef clearly had no aversion to "aigre doux" (sweet sour) and this theme was to continue. The portion was tiny but powerful enough to give the tongue an early tingle. The accompany white and sourdough breads were excellent. Chewy, deeply flavoured crust with demi sel butter.

On to the first menu item: Tarte de Jeunes Primeurs du Printemps, Creme glacee a la moutarde douce (Vegetable tart with mustard ice-cream). This captured spring flawlessly. On a pastry base no thicker than egg shell sat delicate batons of asparagus, some garden peas, morels, onion and baby carrots. Each cooked "a point", a skill not known to many lesser French cooks. No raw crunchiness, and none of the flabby boiled characteristic of overdone vegetables. I think they had been delicately sauted in extra virgin olive oil and salted. The timing was precise. On top sat a lobe of mustard ice cream, piquant and creamy. A happy match.

Next came Noix de St-Jacques en Aigre-doux de miel and de vin rouge (Scallop with miel and red wine sauce). Some of these flavours were familiar from the quail egg amuse. The scallop was nicely browned on each side and well rare in the middle. The sauce was sharp and zingy, however together it didn't quite hit the spot. Too much acid overpowered the marine sweetness of the scallop. A rare dish where the parts were greater than the sum. The only dish on the menu that didn't reach admirable levels of success.

This was followed by L'Omble Chevalier du Lac du Bourget a la peau croustillante, un beurre de lentin de chene (Fresh water Artic Char from Lake Bourget, with crisp skin and shitake mushroom butter). The skin was presented as a flat, separate sheet, erect - a shard of salty crispness. It offered a pleasing contrast to the delicate texture of the fish, which appeared to have been steamed. The mushroomy butter was delicate, in fact I found it difficult to detect anything particularly shitake-like but that was just fine as what I wanted most of all was to taste the fish. This I did. The dish delivered.

At this point my dining partner and I slightly diverged. She doesn't eat red meat. Her replacement (offered without hesitation) was a slice of foie gras entier, I think in some sauternes-like sauce. It looked good and she liked it but I didn't focus too much on it. I had the menu item of Double Cote de Veau de Lait, grosse asperte verte, creme de radis rose. Two generous veal ribs, lightly coloured nestled on top of another well timed asparagus (this time a broad stalk and tip) and a red radish cream. Subtle flavourings on the cream meant I could focus on the milk fed veal. Milk fed in veal to me often means "little flavour" but this provided a happy exception. Flavour had not been sacrificed on the altar of tenderness. No high artistry here but very solid produce well prepared.

The final savoury course before cheese was a Veloute des premieres morilles, dans l'esprit d'un capucino. There's little new under the culinary sun and yes mushroom cappuccino has been floating around posh French restaurants from London to New York via Sydney for some years. However, provided the flavour is concentrated, the bubbles light and the cream sparing, I still think it can be a tasty dish. I liked it all the more when I found some whole morels, sitting like jetsam at the bottom of the coffee cup.

Ensuite, les fromages. As they called it "Notre Selection de Fromagers Lyonnais, Cellerier, Lery et la Mere Richard". I can't for the life of me remember what we had from this lot but we both asked the waiter to pick a selection of 5 or 6 for us from the range laid out across three separate trays. A marvellous selection, no less that 50 or so in my estimate. The waiter thoughtfully selected different cheeses for our plates so I sampled 11 in total, all well matured. I've not had a better cheese offered to me in a restaurant.

And finally on to dessert Les Trois Dessert de l'Auberge, Douceurs et Friandises. Personally, I see no point in white chocolate but this did nothing to detract from my enjoyment of a dessert of layered raspberry puree and white chocolate with pistachio creme brulee. This could have been a sickly sweet mess but thankfully it was well restrained. Next in the series was a rhubarb tartelette with lemon sabayon and toffee strawberry. No great complexity in this dessert but a harmonious combination of fruit picked at peak ripeness. The pastry was a little thicker, and of course sweeter, than the shell for the vegetable tart. Finally, a gingerbread ice cream cone with single ball of licorice ice cream. My partner desires licorice like nothing else and she was in raptures. I shared the joy, this was a triumph. The cone brittle and strongly spiced, the ice cream smooth, intensely aniseed/star anise.

To finish with tea, we were presented with a plate of petits fours: apricot and blackcurrant jellies (separate), caramelised nuts and chartreuse and orange flower marshmallows (again separate, not combined). By this point, I was reaching tolerance limits of fullness. Still, we left the plate empty. The jellies in particular sang loudly of fruit.

I am grateful for the suggestions from fellow e-Gulleteers for L'Auberge de l'Ile. It was an excellent meal. It was the first 2 Star meal I'd eaten in some years in France so no easy comparators. No great surprises in the flavours, it wasn't taking me to unfamiliar places. However it was not staid and the chef showed a welcome affinity with the fresh ingredients of the season. Service austere in the classic French way but accommodating and precise. Recommended.

A few other random notes about Lyon:

- The chocolates at the more famous Bernachon have none of the finesse and intensity of those from Rich'Art, a stone's throw on the other side of Cours Fr. Roosevelt. Chocolates are grouped into "flights" or flavour families such as "Herbaceous", "Spiced", "Red fruits" etc. Sometimes the flavouring overpowered the dark chocolate flavour (particularly in the Herbaceous category) but on the whole, this is superior chocolate making. It is only a small notch below Herme in Paris and Marcolini and Wittamer in Brussels

- Les Halles market early Saturday afternoon was a little lifeless and a number of stalls were shut. Gariguette strawberries were at their peak (Why can't UK or US growers produce this fragrant variety? If they do, where can I find some?). We bought some and enjoyed a punnet next to the Rhone in the sun. The daily open air market on Quai St Antoine is livelier, in a prettier setting next to the Saone and would suggest punters go there instead of les Halles is time is short

- There is a sameness about the bouchons in the Vieux Lyon. Cheap, heavy, traditional fare, they're OK but not memorable

- Maybe I didn't look hard enough but no where did I find a restaurant serving poulet de bresse. More of a speciality product than I had imagined.

[Mrs. B]

At this point my dining partner and I slightly diverged. She doesn't eat red meat. Her replacement (offered without hesitation) was a slice of foie gras entier, I think in some sauternes-like sauce. It looked good and she liked

How was the foie gras prepared? I can't imagine someone who does not like red meat accepting foie gras as a replacement?

[andrew_j_craig]

Imagine you must. My partner's objections to beef and lamb are purely taste based. My memory is a little hazy on the precise composition of her foie gras dish, but from recollection is a small-ish lobe, browned on the outside, rare on the inside, quite mild but long in flavour. The accompanying sauce was kinda sweet, I think with some sauternes like sauce. The acidity of the sauce helped cut through some of the richness of the foie.

[markk]

Can anybody recommend any restaurants in or near Lyon? I'm interested in opinions on all grades of restaurants, from the starred establishments to the local places. (I'll be there for 10 days - 2 weeks, and will want to hit an assortment of places; most interesting to me are firsthand reports on those places to whom the Michelin Guide gives its Bib Gourmand - that type of place.)

I'm especially in need of finding restaurants that offer genuinely separate non-smoking dining rooms, but I'm willing to call or fax over to any place that's recommended for the food and ask about this, but if anybody knows of any with this arrangement, please do post!

I'll be there for Christmas 2004. Thanks.

[Bux]

Lucy (Bleudauvergne) lives in Lyon and should be back online in a day or so. I'd look for her advice on the local places. She's mentioned one or two of her favorites. You might also look for old threads on Lyon. I've generally found one can eat well in Lyon at a moderate price.

[PS]

I'd second Bux on that one - eating well and reasonably in Lyon is a joy. You may be struggling on the separate non-smoking dining rooms though - the bouchons I ate in last year were all one-room places. I can't say I remember them as particularly smoky, however.

[bleudauvergne]

Hi Mark, you've got plenty of time to do your research about where to eat in Lyon since you won't be here until Christmas. 10 days is a nice long stay. May I ask if you're planning to take long lunches as well as dinners, or are you just planning to be eating dinner out?