A Chat with Gillian Clark

[Gillian Clark]

I've heard from many people on this forum that they're looking forward to a lively, informative, perhaps even raucous back-and-forth together, and I'd like to start with a couple of questions of my own. At this point, everyone else should feel free to ask anything they wish.

Don,

I was all set for this raucous forum and it's been very tame. I guess excepting a jab at Eunny Jang, I've been behaving myself. However, there are a couple of things I was hoping to address. Maybe those people who formed their preconceived notions stayed out of the chat. Or maybe my really long answers don't let others get a word in edgewise.

Nonetheless, I do want to answer the whole notion of me being called "Chef". That thread struck me as the funniest thing. Then to have the daSto debate right after.

Please recall the discussion where Rocks posted an email (he is one of 700 who have voluntarily given email address to be updated when we make menu changes). Not one eGullet member bitched at me about the menu, or asked about the Passport Program from DCO. Instead I had my feet in a box because I sign my emails "Chef & Robin".

You know the answer is prettty simple. Evening Star was my first Chef job. And I mentioned above that my staff of cooks was not exactly what is often pictured in the ChefWear catalog. New restaurants often can't pay enough to attract them and at the time (and maybe still) I don't have the name to attract them for no money.

My first hire was a woman in her early 40's named Roshena. She was sexually assaulted by a friend of the family when she was 9. She stopped going to school shortly after that. She got pregnant at 16 and left home. She lived in NC to a man much older. When she left him, three more children in tow. She lived in a shelter in NC and went to was dishes at a Chinese restaurant. Sometimes they let her cook. Roshena, try as she might could not say the word "Gillian".

Just as I can not trill my R's. There are some people (many black) who can not say the "L" sound following a vowel. Ask them to pay for their cable. They'll tell you they're waiting for the "Biww". I tried for 5 minutes or so to get her to get it right (in Great Neck we had the lisping Mr. Scope teaching speech and diction---there are no Mr. Scopes in today's educational atmosphere).

Remoulade was also a tough one. But I got her to say it after about 4 months. But even not saying it, calling it "that sauce with the worster and cayenne", she made damn good "Ray....Moo....Ladd."

That morning one of the Baxter's came in to bring our Softshells. Baxter visits 100 restaurants a day. He doesn't want to know our names. He calls us all Chef. Who ever hands him the check is Chef for that matter. He breezes into the kitchen. "Here are your softies, Chef." I have to admit that feels good. You're a young cook first Chef job. Working harder and dirtier than when you were a line cook. I really felt like he should have said, "Here are your softies, bonehead." Someone called me Chef. Is it true?

So Roshena, Richard, Best, Carlos, Dmitri, Mary, Frances none of them could pronounce Gillian. So I said, "just call me Chef." And it stuck. The staff has always called me Chef...like in many other restaurants.

Colorado Kitchen is just open and small. The customers started calling me Chef to. I'm the one that never gets recognized in public. They all clamor after Robin.

They wouldn't know Gillian if she signed and email.

[hjshorter]

Chef Gillian, thanks so much for addressing that. I'm not really sure what the fuss was about. Aren't you the one that went to culinary school, conceived of the restaurant, creates the food, calls the shots, hires/fires, and signs the paychecks? Why the hell shouldn't you be called Chef?

I am not one to leap to conclusions like this, but if you had been a man would it have attracted any attention?

[JPW]

Re the "chef" thing -

Went back to look at that thread and saw a grand total of two posts on it that could be considered critical.

An opposing viewpoint that said (and I quote because I liked the name):

As far as I'm concerned, Chef Clark is welcome to appoint herself Lordy Lordy Ain't She Wonderful El Generalissimo Queen Of The Wild Frontier as long as she keeps turning out meals like I had last night.

And a grand total of one wise-ass comment (which for this group of juveniles is incredibly tame!).

My opinion? More of a molehill than a mountain.

PS - Chef Gillian, would you like that new monikor inscribed on a plaque to hang over the front door?

[jmc8y]

From watching the culinary school series on foodTV, and the restaurant on NBC, I had just assumed it was custom for subordinates to call the head chef, "chef."

That said,

Chef,

Are there any knowledge, skills or attitudes that you gained through teaching English that have aided you in your culinary career?

[MCJB2]

Some more CK-related questions:

Could you explain why you had initially decided not to have a liquor license, and the reasoning behind finally deciding to apply?

Also, why is it that hamburgers are only available on Thursdays, Fridays & Sundays? I'm guessing there is a logistical reason for this, but I was never sure exactly what it was.

[bilrus]

Don,

I was all set for this raucous forum and it's been very tame. I guess excepting a jab at Eunny Jang, I've been behaving myself. However, there are a couple of things I was hoping to address. Maybe those people who formed their preconceived notions stayed out of the chat. Or maybe my really long answers don't let others get a word in edgewise.

I think there are two reasons why there has been less criticism in this chat that expected.

First off, you have come off as being much more reasonable and pleasant than your reputation would lead one to expect. Not that you care what "a small group of snooty white people" think about your personality. Or should you.

Secondly, the daSto thread did get a little overheated and like a car many people blew off their steam there rather than here.

Speaking of reputations, is part of being a chef/owner of a restaurant playing at least a little of the "PR game"? I'm not talking about hiring an expensive firm to test and masasge your menu and image, but not doing things that might adversely affect the number of customers coming in to your restaurant every day. It is obvious that you are an interesting charming person in some settings, your restaurant probably being one. But for many of us here our first exposure to you was your letter to Tom. The second was the email signed by Chef (which didn't strike me as being a very big deal). And the third exposure we had was your response to the daSto thread that called us all overeducated, snooty white people. For many people you would have been called out after the first strike.

I'd say that you've generally won over some converts here in the last few days and I for one am going to try to "darken your doorstep" for the first time in the near future.

[mr food]

thanks for your time. Quick question: I see you will have a liqour license-will you allow corkage? Would you be interested in working with wine groups to plan a menu around the wines they bring similar to what some other venues around town?

One final question: who will plan your wine menu and will you invest in quality restaurant stemware to complement the wines you choose? thanks again

[Tweaked]

I have to echo Bilrus comments above, you're answers have been extensive, personal, and you come across as a person who has strong opinions, but opinions that you have developed through long, hard thought and are drawing from your own personal experiences.

I particularly like your mini-essay on eating habits, especially when it comes to children and the role parents need to play in form good eating habits. With obesity being the new health crisis in America and all the press coverage that topic has generated, very little attention has been focused on personal repsonsibility and the development of eating habits from childhood, especially from the groups that are pushing for fat taxes, law suits and new regulations like restaurant nutrition guides, etc. etc., who generally ignore the role of personal responsibility.

Anyway, as someone who has known about Colorado Kitchen for a while and has always said oh, I should check it out sometime, this chat has made me put your restaurant on the priority list. Thanks for your time and extensive answers.

Can you feel the love, guys!

[hillvalley]

I agree with hj, of course you should be called Chef.

As a black woman who owns her own restaurant you are a wonderful role model. Do you do any mentoring or give talks to young people in the area? How do you feel about being considered a role model.

On a different track, what do you cook for your daughters? Do they enjoy being in the kitchen?

[laniloa]

I have to agree with what some of the others have said about the level cordiality in this discussion. I have also had your restaurant on my radar screen but I am a ridiculously picky eater and just didn't want to deal with what had come across as (what now seems as overstated) rudeness. It is both a fault and a charming quality of mine. But I promise that I never put salt on things without tasting them. I think some of the earlier comments about your reactions to substitutions or deletions came across more as prima donna then as belief in your well-tested recipes and desire for your customers to have a fantastic flavor combination. I think you have clarified many things for us in this chat and reinforced your commitment to service. I'll be in to give it a whirl soon.

My question is about daSto. Can you give us a better idea of what you'll be stocking?

[bilrus]

[Note: remember that Gillian gets hit with weekend service beginning today, so she'll only have time for some last-minute stuff at this point]

I'm sure at this point she loves us so much that she'll stick around for the long term - right?

[eunny jang]

I've heard from many people on this forum that they're looking forward to a lively, informative, perhaps even raucous back-and-forth together, and I'd like to start with a couple of questions of my own.  At this point, everyone else should feel free to ask anything they wish.

Don,

I was all set for this raucous forum and it's been very tame. I guess excepting a jab at Eunny Jang, I've been behaving myself. However, there are a couple of things I was hoping to address. Maybe those people who formed their preconceived notions stayed out of the chat. Or maybe my really long answers don't let others get a word in edgewise.

First, thank you for doing this chat - it's been informative and entertaining, and I've been following it since it was announced.

I suspect there are a lot of people who have never eaten at your restaurant and have heard all the controversy, but don't have any particular bias against it or against you - I'd certainly rather someone run their business the way they see fit than "sell out". Overall, my impression is that you are unorthodox and brave. But then, I don't know you at all, and am hardly fit to judge either way, so I haven't. I hope that you don't think there's a sea of angry people out there with pitchforks - I hope most people (idiot washingtonpost.com user reviewers aside) feel like I do. CK has always been on my list to try, and the liquor license will probably be the thing that finally does it.

I do, however, have problems with daSto. I didn't see it being a pun or humorous in any way - see my suggestion that you open, rather, a German bakery in the same location called "DasSto"

Thanks again for taking the time to have this conversation and add a little more knowledge and levity to this corner of the world. Didn't notice any jabs at me, but then, obliviousness is hardly unusual for me.

[Gillian Clark]

Chef Gillian, thanks so much for addressing that.  I'm not really sure what the fuss was about.  Aren't you the one that went to culinary school, conceived of the restaurant, creates the food, calls the shots, hires/fires, and signs the paychecks?  Why the hell shouldn't you be called Chef?

I am not one to leap to conclusions like this, but if you had been a man would it have attracted any attention?

Yes...funny you should mention that. Go to an SOS event and peek your head in and say, "Hey Chef". All the heads will turn 'round. Susan and Ann always went by their first names and I was set to do as they. But circumstances led to otherwise.

But I was accused on this site of be pretentious. I am well aware of my position and standing and have never seen the glamour in this profession. It is something I have always loved to do. I got rid of all of the trappings of my other life. I no longer straighten my hair and I wear jeans and sneakers and chef clothes...chef clothes more than anything.

I always say to myself (and to others if they'll listen) that the first white house chef was a slave. I have big old burned up arms and my feet have grown to a size 11. I am no glamour puss over here. The job is dirty and sweaty and hot and difficult. We all try our best to do it smiling.

I walked into the kitchen at the M-C my first week and found Susan under the booster of the dishwasher trying to find the override. Tom was the saute guy and said, "Don't be shocked. That's what being a chef is all about." I can not tell you how many dishwashers, disposals, grease traps, toilets I've either had my hand in or been under. Chef does not spell Princess for me...although that has always been a running joke in Susan's kitchen. Many of us were often called Princess one time or another.

[Gillian Clark]

Re the "chef" thing -

My opinion? More of a molehill than a mountain.

PS - Chef Gillian, would you like that new monikor inscribed on a plaque to hang over the front door?

It's tough enough going by CHEF

[Gillian Clark]

Are there any knowledge, skills or attitudes that you gained through teaching English that have aided you in your culinary career?

Every place I've cooked I've had to teach. It has come in handy. But the real benefit was 11 years in marketing. That's helped us at CK a great deal. I was so smart when I was teaching. I miss those days sometimes. I don't think I'm as sharp.

But it did help me learn to think on my feet. I also had a considerable amount of science education at Hopkins. That has made me a better cook.

[bilrus]

Go to an SOS event and peek your head in and say, "Hey Chef". All the heads will turn 'round.

Since we're still talking about it, where I think the whole "Chef" thing seems a little strange (at least strange sounding or seeing it in print) is that if you said "Doctor" at an American Medical Association conference, everyone would turn around too. But it would be unusual for a doctor to call themselves simply "Doctor", rather than "Dr. Jones" or even, in less formal circumstances by their first name. Patients and staff at the hospitla would still call them "Doctor".

The fact is that it seems like this is more of a nickname that you have picked up over the years. Like the country doctor who becomes "'Doc".

How's that for beating a dead horse?

[DonRocks]

[Note:  remember that Gillian gets hit with weekend service beginning today, so she'll only have time for some last-minute stuff at this point]

I'm sure at this point she loves us so much that she'll stick around for the long term - right?

[Official word: she loves us enough to stick around for an extra day, until tomorrow.]

[Gillian Clark]

Some more CK-related questions:

Could you explain why you had initially decided not to have a liquor license, and the reasoning behind finally deciding to apply?

Also, why is it that hamburgers are only available on Thursdays, Fridays & Sundays? I'm guessing there is a logistical reason for this, but I was never sure exactly what it was.

This neighborhood is in "transition". There are a number of people wandering the streets looking for a drink. We did not them wandering in to CK. So until we established ourselves we thought it a good idea to be dry. At the time we did not know the ABC laws changed to no allow BYOB. Its been three years and we've established a place and an idea in everyone's mind as to what kind of place we are. We never wanted bar flys scaring off those interested in some decent food. We also were just two women with a total of three nickels just wanting to finally open the bloody place.

There is also a an element in this neighborhood out to fight this kind of thing. Now we have a huge popluation on our side if anyone challenges us come hearing time.

Here is the marketing mind at work in regard to the burgers. We did not open with burgers on the menu. And when they were introduced we figured it would draw the more relaxed dining crowd. Maybe they'd try the burger and then try the monkfish..then the steak and so on. It also seems exclusive and temporary and more desirable offered in limited supply.

Logistically, I have a six burner stove and the burger takes up one burner all night in a cast iron skillet. I can't do the rest of the menu as effectively. Often....3 steak, 2 chicken, 11 burgers all at once...reduce the sauces...AHHHHH. I can only handle that once or twice a week.

[Gillian Clark]

. 

First off, you have come off as being much more reasonable and pleasant than your reputation would lead one to expect.  Not that you care what "a small group of snooty white people" think about your personality.    Or should you.

That's really interesting. I am not at all like the person that you folks thought I was. Candy Saigon also wrote about me Thanksgiving day. Seems like two different people. Having written for newspapers and magazine I know how important a lead to a story has to be. Candy said I was angry and torqued and all sorts of things. Tom left off the beginning of the letter. But venom was never in my thoughts.

Go back and read the letter now. Do I sound as mean? But begin with a few sentences explaining that Carol may be extreme, but all Chef's have a point they won't let customers cross. I DO make substitutions. But appreciate that we struggle over pairings and sauces and starches and textures when we create menu items. Susan used to heavy sigh come menu change time and say, "I wish someone would invent another starch."

I am really well liked in the business. Call anyone in the business and ask if they know me and what they think. I'm very pleasant and gracious and well mannered. I will never cut you off, even in my big old Suburban. I love old movies and I'm a big fan of Ella Fitzgerald. I play the cello and have even built a couple. I got to know Mrs. Lewis at the music box center because I make music boxes, too. Make a point of going there she is really something.

Some people say I'm too nice. I let the owner of Mrs. Simpsons and the folks at Evening Star do me wrong. I'm loyal to a fault and sometimes that has cost me.

I'm glad many of you have gotten to know the real Chef. I created a lot of excitement in Tom Sietsema's chat with a letter I wrote to come to the defense of a fellow Chef who I think was being treated unfairly. Carol got a good laugh out of it. Ann refused to be interviewd by Candy because she knew where it was going. As did Carol. I took the heat and that was fine.

What was funny about the daSto thing is really a huge issue. And I may go into it later after service tonight.

Wasn't it Marvin Gaye who said, "Believe only half of what you see. Some or none of what you hear." I first heard that line at 6 or 7 and thought it was an exaggeration. Now at 41, I believe it to be gospel.

[morela]

Lite Questions

(Are numbers annoying?)

1. When you have the opportunity to dine out, what are some of your favorite places to go?

2. Do you think people come in and sort of test you (ask for subs, etc.) because of all the 'no substitutions' attention you have gotten?

3. Does Adrian Fenty come in a lot?

4. What are your feelings on The South Beach Diet? Atkins?

5. Do you know of any other retail plans for that strip (the daSto/CK strip)?

6. Do ever have deviled eggs on the menu?

[Gillian Clark]

thanks for your time. Quick question: I see you will have a liqour license-will you allow corkage? Would you be interested in working with wine groups to plan a menu around the wines they bring similar to what some other venues around town?

One final question: who will plan your wine menu and will you invest in quality restaurant stemware to complement the wines you choose? thanks again

We will have a small corkage fee. And a night (maybe Sunday) with no fee. Glasses are a tough one. We have a small storage area and have no place to store a huge variety of glassware. Remember when Cashion's first opened and wine was served in a straight glass? We have a basic, multi-purpose goblet. But this is our first year with wine. We may grow into it more.

Corkers are free to bring glassware if they want I suppose...although Robin and I have not discussed that one. Wine dinners are definitely a possibility.

We are looking to stock a few wines and change them often. I am often thinking of featuring my grandmother's jelly jar red...If I can just remember where I put the formula.

[Gillian Clark]

I have to echo Bilrus comments above, you're answers have been extensive, personal, and you come across as a person who has strong opinions, but opinions that you have developed through long, hard thought and are drawing from your own personal experiences.

I'm an old 41. I spent a great deal of my shy childhood just watching and listening.

I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but all of us who have successfully made a living (not necessarily gotten rich) in this business, know that you have to love what you're doing and really love people. Cooking is really sharing. I share with complete strangers...many become my friends...every day.

My food is a little piece of my brain, my history and what I feel about food. Colorado Kitchen is all about food and food memories. I feature pineapple cake because it is the one thing that my father made so perfectly and RARELY and we begged for it. The stars had to be right for him to make it, however. He had to be in a good mood and canned pineapple and canned cherries had to both be on sale (Daddy never goes to Pathmark without his shoebox full of coupons.)

[Gillian Clark]

As a black woman who owns her own restaurant you are a wonderful role model.  Do you do any mentoring or give talks to young people in the area?  How do you feel about being considered a role model.

On a different track, what do you cook for your daughters?  Do they enjoy being in the kitchen?

I don't consider myself a role model. Funny, when we first opened, people were always trying to tip me. There is a bias in the community about Chefs. Many people who came in thought Robin was the boss and I just worked there.

That first article in the Post and the picture of me did draw in a huge black crowd in the beginning. That kind of thinned out. We had to win black people over. The soul food rumor had spread. I had a woman cuss me out for not being black enough. She told me I had to blacken up my food and do carryout. I was a disservice to the black community. I've been accused of having too many white waitstaff. It's a lot of pressure being black and in business. Everyone has a better idea.

I really consider myself a Chef who just happens to be black. Not a black chef. I hope black and white kids appreciate my integrity and perseverance and courage. It's more human than any one particular race.

I only hope that I have eliminated bias in both the black and white community. Both had preconceived notions of the restaurant and of me. Those black folks that wanted soul food...many have not been back. A few are regulars.

About my daughters? They love food. I am glad for that. Magalee has been garde Manger, Sian has washed dishes and made claufoutis. They usually have what is on the menu...and I pile on the veggies.

When I had Mag I was advised not to give babies onions. She has been slow to accept onions and sauces in her diet. Sian...my second...I was more relaxed. She loves sauces and likes things spicy (The cayenne nail polish to get her to stop sucking her thumb)

[Gillian Clark]

My question is about daSto. Can you give us a better idea of what you'll be stocking?

Lets see....we've found some vintage apron patterns and had a bunch made....THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL. Susan gave me one that was given to her when she married. It's hanging at CK and is not for sale. I get offers all the time. So we decided to have some made and sell them at daSto.

We have Polly Brown (of Teaism fame) making baked goods. Many of my dressings we've bottled.

Really cool wine and food candles. Cards, fridge magnets, vintage cook books and appliances...all kinds of stuff. You'll love just browsing. The space is adorable too. Kind of like those Geese that Eunny Jang posted.

[Gillian Clark]

ALite Questions

(Are numbers annoying?)

1. When you have the opportunity to dine out, what are some of your favorite places to go?

2. Do you think people come in and sort of test you (ask for subs, etc.) because of all the 'no substitutions' attention you have gotten?

3. Does Adrian Fenty come in a lot?

4. What are your feelings on The South Beach Diet? Atkins?

5. Do you know of any other retail plans for that strip (the daSto/CK strip)?

6. Do ever have deviled eggs on the menu?

Number are not annoying.

On our two nights off we eat out. I love the new little place you folks marched by on your way to Rays the Steaks. The Mediterranean Cafe. The chicken is great. Best Hummus I've ever had.

I think there was little bit of that testing the "angry Chef". Not much. I think the whole carb thing has had more of an impact. Not a big one though because we still run out of biscuits.

Adrian doesn't come as often as he leads everyone to believe. But he is great to have on our side. He is very accessible and listens. He's a great listener and he does get involved. I have the highest respect for the man. Williams swept through during his campaign and gave himself credit for CK existing. I think he is a jerk. I would have opened CK even if Marion Barry were still in office.

I have been on South Beach for about 2 months. I've lost 20 pounds. I have much more to go (how did I get so fat?) Robin is looking great. She lost 15 or so. We've been cheating like crazy. I need to go back to having my salad for breakfast.

We have no more plans for Colorado Avenue. Who knows what may turn up. There is great activity near Takoma Metro...I wouldn't mind a little somethin' over there.

LOL...yes. We had deviled eggs on our opening menu. I spent a fortune on ebay getting plates...you know the deviled egg plates. I think the whole month they were on I sold 2 orders. Call me before you come and I'll make you the eggs. I need a day's notice.