Best Hunan or Szechuan Food in the Bay Area

[ludja]

On another thread to help Al Dente with his SF-SD road trip

sf to san diego trip

a point came up re: Hunan Food in SF.

(Pim @ Jun 30, 2004 7:43 PM)

- I don't recommend fancified and Americanized chinese food like Brandy Ho's. There are plenty of places in Chinatown where you can eat great Chinese food for practically nothing. Yuet Lee, Hing Lung (for Jok), Yee's. Also keep in mind that SF is not a great place for Hunan chinese. I'd stick with Cantonese fairs like the places mentioned above.

Brandy Ho's on Colombus in North Beach is an old favorite of mine. (kung pao chicken, house-cured ham w/braised garlic). But I am not an expert on Hunan food--have only compared w/a handful of other places on the Peninsula to which Brandy Ho's compares favorably.

Are there any Hunan or Szechuan restaurants in the Bay area that are a favorite of yours and are perhaps more authentic?

It would also be ihelpful and interesting to hear comments on what makes a place more authentic or less "fancified or Americanized".

Edited July 1, 2004 by ludja (log)

[Jason Perlow]

I disagree with Pim that Brandy Ho's is "Americanized". It sure as hell is not. Its authentic Hunan.

[fiftydollars]

Hunan Homes on Jackson in San Francisco.

[pim]

Brandy Ho's authentic?

Seriously, it's called Brandy Ho's.

I have never found Szechuan restaurant in the Bay Area that is in the same class of, say, Grand Szechuan in NY.

I think it's just a matter of geography, more chinese people over here, as well as on the West Coast of Canada, came from Canton, some via Hong Kong, especially the exodus right around the handover in 95.

[ludja]

How about the food at Brandy Ho's?

Not being facetious--but what is americanized or fancy about it?

If you've eaten at Brandy Ho's; how would the food be different than at a good Hunan place? (execution?, ingredients?, selection on menu?)

edited to add: I'm asking, not for the point of argument, but because I would love to be able to identify, find and have even better Hunan food.

Edited July 1, 2004 by ludja (log)

[Gary Soup]

I disagree with Pim that Brandy Ho's is "Americanized". It sure as hell is not. Its authentic Hunan.

I can't comment on that one because I totally avoid restaurants that proclaim "NO MSG".

The Chariman would not be amused. On second thought, he probably would be amused.

[Han]

If you want authentic Szechuan, not the Americanized versions, can you tolerate numbing hot dishes ? It actually will creates numbingly hot sensation in your tongue - not particularly pleasant to some/most. But if you are a spicy enthusiast, this will satisfy you. Dishes with names like water boiled beef (there is no water but instead the beef is cooked in spicy oily concoction with REAL Szechuan peppercorns), spicy pork lung (actually slices of pork belly in spicy garlic sauce), cumin lamb, and other versions of the same things.

Here are the real deals, as authentic as it can be, straight from Szechuan in China in taste and presentation:

-Szechuan Home in Union City

-Little Sichuan in Fremont and also in San Mateo

-Chili Garden in Union City

and a few more places I can't remember in Newark and in SF.

Some of these places can't speak English too well - you just have to find a waiter/waitresses who can actually speak decent/understanable english. Just call them up. You can also research chowhound.com for more info.

[pim]

How about the food at Brandy Ho's?

Not being facetious--but what is americanized or fancy about it?

If you've eaten at Brandy Ho's; how would the food be different than at a good Hunan place?  (execution?, ingredients?, selection on menu?)

I don't go eat at Brandy Ho's. But I do order from them occasionally. They do free delivery in my hood.

Their food is entirely acceptable--just not a place I recommend someone from out of town to eat. It's more like a place I call when I am out of other ideas. The food is generally reliable, but not super delicious or anything. Far from a revelation I'd say.

For example, the soup line up at Brandy Ho's is as follow:

Wonton soup

Hot and Sour soup

Dumpling soup

Mosi soup

Fish ball soup

Mostly benign, and hardly regional.

At Grand Szechuan in NY, there is this fish soup, beautifully gelatinious, gorgeously yellow, and supremely delicious. Also their rabbit dish, my sister's rabbit or something to that effect. It's served cold, and is something I occasionally dream about.

You know, I didn't mean to say that the food at Brandy Ho's was bad, just it's not my idea of an exemplary Hunan meal. The portion is generally smaller than other Chinatown places, and the price somewhat higher. There are plenty of better and more economical places to eat in Chinatown.

[Gary Soup]

Sam Lok on Jackson St. (SF Chinatown) has decent Sichuan food. Some people swear by China Village in Albany, but I never cross the bay these days.

Most Sichuan places in the Bay Area (and perhaps the US) tend to focus on a single dimension (e.g. the heat) of Sichuan cuisine, which is in fact very complex. Apart from cured meats, I don't think there's a lot to Hunan cuisine that doesn't overlap with Sichuan. I think some Chinese Restaurants call themselves "Hunan" because it's easier to spell "Hunan" than "Sichuan" (or worse, "Szechuan").

[pim]

spicy oily concoction with REAL Szechuan peppercorns

Yes, they serve that on the side with the fish soup at Grand Szechuan.

I've never tried these other places you recommend, perhaps I should.

PS. If you wonder why I could list the soup line up at B.H. I've got a delivery menu, told you I order from them occasionally.

Edited July 1, 2004 by pim (log)

[pim]

Most Sichuan places in the Bay Area (and perhaps the US) tend to focus on a single dimension (e.g. the heat) of Sichuan cuisine, which is in fact very complex.

Bingo.

It's akin to throwing stuff into a coconut or peanut sauce and call it "Thai".

[ludja]

Their food is entirely acceptable--just not a place I recommend someone from out of town to eat. It's more like a place I call when I am out of other ideas. The food is generally reliable, but not super delicious or anything. Far from a revelation I'd say.

For example, the soup line up at Brandy Ho's is as follow:

Wonton soup

Hot and Sour soup

Dumpling soup

Mosi soup

Fish ball soup

Mostly benign, and hardly regional.

At Grand Szechuan in NY, there is this fish soup, beautifully gelatinious, gorgeously yellow, and supremely delicious. Also their rabbit dish, my sister's rabbit or something to that effect. It's served cold, and is something I occasionally dream about.

You know, I didn't mean to say that the food at Brandy Ho's was bad, just it's not my idea of an exemplary Hunan meal. The portion is generally smaller than other Chinatown places, and the price somewhat higher. There are plenty of better and more economical places to eat in Chinatown.

Thanks Pim--I get your point re: being able to get better, more authentic regional chinese food at say, a Cantonese place in SF--and for that reason, recommending these to visitors. Thanks for the suggestions on places.

Also, re: Brandy Ho's perhaps being good but not exceptional re: regional cuisine. The example of the soups is a good one--i.e being standard soups, not from one region. This resonates with me because after having Thai food for the first time out here--I bought an arm load of Thai cookbooks (~10 years ago) and read about the cuisine--then woudl go to restaurants and be disappointed by the offering of the same three soups and same four appetizers, etc....

You'd have to have eaten the chinese food I had previously to understand the "revelation' I had at Brandy Ho's... Before I'd only had the worst kind of exceesivly bland or sweet, americanized Chinese food made with very poor quality ingredients. I once had a shrimp dish that was so bad it was only until I moved out to the Bay area that I would ever eat any seafood in an "asian" restaurant--now it is the opposite.

Thanks also to Han and Gary Soup for some good Szechuan places to try out. I definately can enjoy foods that bring you to the pain-pleasure intererface so we'll have to see. Also, maybe I'll get some exposure to some of the other subtlties of Szechuan cuisine.

Does anyone know in what US cities (besides NY) there might tend to be good Hunan restaurants? (i.e. immigrants from Hunan)

Also if people have other suggestions for the Bay area, please share them.

[Han]

Gary Soup brought an excellent reminder of China Village in Albany. I think that is probably your best bet, I forgot about that one. It is probably the single most recommended authentic Szechuan restaurant by many gourmands. Most of the people there speaks English and their presentations are the best. Their food is also great. Slightly pricier than those other places but the ambiance is also better there. Good service, etc. Chowhound.com has lots of dishes with pics from that place - you should check it out especially comments from a lady (MW), you'll see. You must go on the day the acclaimed chef is in - call ahead.

[Jason Perlow]

At Brandy's I tend to stick with their Hunan-styled dishes such as their noodles, their dumplings and anything which has two stars, i.e. spicy. None of that stuff seems very Americanized to me.

[Hest88]

China Village is very good, though if you're further south I've tried most of the those Fremont and U.C. listed above and they're all good and authentic. I suspect there are many uptapped gems further south that the more recent Chinese immigrant population flock but that are virtually unknown on eGullet and Chowhound.

[Han]

Yes, some of them I have not even tried. But I have been to quite a number of them.

There is this place in Newark (SUGIA something) that also offers authentic Szechuan. There is a very good Hunan restaurant in Fremont offering authentic Hunan dishes, some of the chowhounds had a big dinner there last year.

Here is the link below:

http://www.222.to/food/Default.aspx?co_id=848&loc=en

We had things like Hunan smoked pork with cabbage that was superb and other dishes.

[alycemoy]

I too have tried most all the places in the Fremont/UC/Newark area.

Szechuan Home - Decent food and authentic menu last time I went a year ago. They since changed management (reopened earlier this year).

Sugia - in the 99 Ranch/Lido Plaza in Newark. The menu has authentic dishes, but I was disappointed by the quality of the food. Dishes were not done with nearly enough care.

Little Szechuan - the outpost of the main one in San Mateo... they serve everything on paper plates, but it's pretty good. The menu is somewhat limited, but a lot of stir fried stuff is there. wont' find a lot of the stewed or complicated dishes here.