Xanthan gum

[jackal10]

To my surprise, my local supermarket was selling Xanthan gum intended as a gluten substitute for home-made gluten free bread.

Does anyone have any experience of its use for high-end cuisine, I mean apart from a low-carb or gluten free substitute?

I know it is used, for example, as a stabiliser for many emulsion type salad dressings. I expect it can be used for foams, instead of gelatine, but I have no idea as to proportion.

I know also it widely used commercially, often with locust bean or guar gum, or with kanjac. It also is used as a stabiliser in paint and cosmetics. Anyone with experience of commercial formulations?

Edited May 15, 2004 by jackal10 (log)

[ducphat30]

My spice guy just started selling it, so I am waiting for him to get me some literature on the usage. I read an article recently that Heston Blumenthal was using it to emulsify mayonaise, then he fried it. As soon as I get some information I will post again.

[Cynthia G]

I have no commerical or high-end experience with xanthan gum, but I do use it quite often as a thickener in place of cornstarch or flour... as in sauces for stir-fry or to thicken a stew's broth. A little goes a long way, so I add very sparingly and then adjust if needed.

[BryanZ]

I'm going to bump this to see if anyone has garnered any further experience using xanthan gum in high-end restaurant-style applications. I'm doing some research for an article I'm working on and managed to get some for pretty cheap. With that said, what cool stuff can I (a pretty decent home cook with a bent for experimentation) theoretically do with it? What are the big boys doing with it these days?

[cricklewood]

I am interested as well in this topic I bought some xanthan gum from the health food store the other day. I want to try and use it for thickening, for example I want to be able to use veg or fruit juices as sauces without reducing them. I tried some tests with coffee the other day but I find that it thickens very powerfully and retains the air from mixing it giving it a weird texture. I will try some more tests as I have time. Anyone else have proportions or tips on using it?

I know in the Iron chef Episode Wylie Dufresne uses it to thicken Arugula juice.

[BryanZ]

All of the applications I've found so far generally revolve around gluten-free baking. Not exactly the route I want to go. From what I can tell, about 1% of xanthan dissolved by weight seems to do the trick, though I can't guarantee that number.

And when you say "retains the air" does that mean it becomes like a loose, airy gel?

[ghost]

Do you make a slurry with the xanthan gum to thicken sauces? Or do you add it directly the liquid?

[cricklewood]

I am trying to use this stuff to give sauce like texture to liquids so you can have pure tastings intense sauces. What I did to test it was: I had day before coffee lying around so I took about a teaspoon of xanthan gum and then put it in the coffee(i'd say about 1 1/2 cups) and then buzzed the whole thing with my immersion blender, it definitly thickens pretty intensely. but all these little air bubbles stay trapped in it and even after a night in the fridge, they stayed put, the color lightens a bit too. It will require some more experimenting, I haven't tried the slurry method will try this week. BrianZ you are right most of the info for Xanthan is for gluten free baking, am trying to get more info let me know if you dig up anything. You think we could e-mail Wylie or someone who uses this stuff and ask??

[BryanZ]

It's funny that you suggest that we email Wylie. I actually just emailed his PR person last Friday for some research on my story and am awaiting a response. I'm also awaiting responses from a couple other people who should know what the heck we can do with this stuff. When I finally get my jar I'll start playing around. Unfortunately, I'm not at home so I don't have the time or access to ingredients and equipment that I normally would. Alas, we'll just have to see how it goes. I'm very interested to see how the rest of your experiments go cricklewood.

As for the suspended air bubbles. I'm inclined to suggest a gentle stirring rather than a thrashing with the ol' stick blender. The slurry method might also help disperse the powder without clumping or aeration of your liqui-gel. I also thought I just read a thread here that was talking about Adria using a different type of gum so that he could achieve the literal liquid gel effect with none of the suspended air bubbles that might give a strange appearance and texture.

[ghost]

The slurry method might also help disperse the powder without clumping or aeration of your liqui-gel.  I also thought I just read a thread here that was talking about Adria using a different type of gum so that he could achieve the literal liquid gel effect with none of the suspended air bubbles that might give a strange appearance and texture.

←

I haven't played with it in a while, I gotta dig it up from my pantry, but if memory serves me right... when you sprinkled xanthan gum on top of a liquid, it didn't clump like a flour/starch would. It looked almost like yeast (not in that it bubbled, but in texture) and floated on top of the liquid. I remember it was really hard to get it to dissolve. That's why I was curious if you need to make a slurry first or if it just requires lots of work (blender style) to get it to dissolve properly. I was also curious if its heat activated before it'll thicken.

[anzu]

Clueless question: would the suspended air bubble effect perhaps be useful if making icecream or sorbet?

A couple of decades back in Australia there was a soft-serve 'icecream' available that was made only from fruit that had been pureed (and cooked?) and mixed with some type of gum that they would not disclose.

It was wonderful stuff, with the taste of unadulterated ripe fruit but the texture of icecream. When one went back to regular fruit flavored icecream after eating this stuff, it felt as if the milk/cream, sugar etc. really muddied up the flavors.

If it turns out to be xantham gum that can be used to get this effect from a fruit puree, then I'm off to track some down ASAP.

[scott123]

The slurry method might also help disperse the powder without clumping or aeration of your liqui-gel.  I also thought I just read a thread here that was talking about Adria using a different type of gum so that he could achieve the literal liquid gel effect with none of the suspended air bubbles that might give a strange appearance and texture.

←

I haven't played with it in a while, I gotta dig it up from my pantry, but if memory serves me right... when you sprinkled xanthan gum on top of a liquid, it didn't clump like a flour/starch would. It looked almost like yeast (not in that it bubbled, but in texture) and floated on top of the liquid. I remember it was really hard to get it to dissolve. That's why I was curious if you need to make a slurry first or if it just requires lots of work (blender style) to get it to dissolve properly. I was also curious if its heat activated before it'll thicken.

←

Xanthan requires no heat to activate/hydrate/thicken.

If the xanthan gum particles are not well dispersed before hitting the liquid, they will clump and take longer to hydrate. A blender can be used to disperse the particles or the xanthan can be pre-mixed with dry ingredients. I achieve excellent results by sprinkling the xanthan with a salt shaker while whisking vigorously.

Because of it's molecular structure, xanthan gum is one of the easiest gums to dissolve. With well dispersed particles, hydration should take place almost immediately.

Should clumping occur, time will eventually resolve the issue. This is true for all gums (although with some it takes days).

I primarily use xanthan in extremely small amounts as a stabilizer. When used as a thickener, the sauce becomes slippery/slimy. It has a good synergy with guar, so that helps texturally, but not much. I have experimented using it in smaller amounts in conjunction with other thickeners, and, so far, have been unhappy with the results. Even in small amounts I can still detect it's slimy quality. Stabilizing can be achieved with miniscule amounts. It's superb for preventing coconut milk from breaking as well as preventing cheese sauces from curdling.

These are some excellent resources on xanthan gum (along with other gums):

http://class.fst.ohio-state.edu/FST621/Add...lasses/gums.htm

http://www.bakingbusiness.com/tech/channel...=16424&PF=print

http://class.fst.ohio-state.edu/FST621/Add...asses/ggum3.pdf

[scott123]

Clueless question: would the suspended air bubble effect perhaps be useful if making icecream or sorbet?

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Xanthan is ideal for incorporating air into ice cream. The increased viscosity from the xanthan aids in the formation/stability of the foam. The added air helps to create softness/scoopability.

There are a few gums that are popular for making ice cream. Xanthan is one. Guar is another. Cellulose gum is popular as well.

Here are some good articles on ice cream chemistry/the use of gums:

http://www.foodproductdesign.com/archive/1...=2501&req=cream

http://www.foodproductdesign.com/archive/1...=2501&req=cream

http://www.foodproductdesign.com/archive/2...=2501&req=cream

[BryanZ]

Thanks for the flurry of information. In return I've got a little treat for you all.

I've got a phone interview a certain well-known "molecular" chef tentatively scheduled for next week. What are some things you all would like to know about xanthan gum, transglutaminase, alginate, etc. I'm working on an article that will take a relatively in-depth science slant, so questions like, "Well your food is really, umm, chemical-ly isn't it?" aren't going to cut it. With that said, I trust that all you brilliant eG'rs will have some insightful questions that will help me direct some of my questions and the rest of my research.

Keep the xanthan gum suggestion coming, too. I'd love to see pictures.

[ghost]

Xanthan requires no heat to activate/hydrate/thicken.

If the xanthan gum particles are not well dispersed before hitting the liquid, they will clump and take longer to hydrate. A blender can be used to disperse the particles or the xanthan can be pre-mixed with dry ingredients. I achieve excellent results by sprinkling the xanthan with a salt shaker while whisking vigorously.

Because of it's molecular structure, xanthan gum is one of the easiest gums to dissolve.  With well dispersed particles, hydration should take place almost immediately.

Should clumping occur, time will eventually resolve the issue.  This is true for all gums (although with some it takes days).

I primarily use xanthan in extremely small amounts as a stabilizer.  When used as a thickener, the sauce becomes slippery/slimy. It has a good synergy with guar, so that helps texturally, but not much. I have experimented using it in smaller amounts in conjunction with other thickeners, and, so far, have been unhappy with the results.  Even in small amounts I can still detect it's slimy quality. Stabilizing can be achieved with miniscule amounts. It's superb for preventing coconut milk from breaking as well as preventing cheese sauces from curdling.

These are some excellent resources on xanthan gum (along with other gums):

http://class.fst.ohio-state.edu/FST621/Add...lasses/gums.htm

http://www.bakingbusiness.com/tech/channel...=16424&PF=print

http://class.fst.ohio-state.edu/FST621/Add...asses/ggum3.pdf

←

Thanks for that treasure-trove of information. I really appreciated it!

[Jared Ferrall]

:biggrin:ya thanks alot scot123 that info is great and BryanZ i'd love to hear what you get out of that interview with i'm guessing Dufrense it would be great to know how he got his hand on transglutimaise i heard you need a specail license to buy it?

[BryanZ]

I know that he works extensively with the Ajinomoto USA people. They make a transglutaminase product called Activa. It's really only available commercially to the best of my knowledge. I would, however, like to keep this discussion on xanthan gum and its applications if at all possible.

[Sethro]

One cool thing I figured out I could use it for is thickening liquid flavorings that otherwise were impossible to fold into whipped cream or meringue.

For instance I've thickened soy milk with xanthan and then folded it into stiff cream so I could have a quennel-able "soy cream". Same thing with teas.

I also use it with fruit purees for mousses as it makes for easier incorporation and less breaking/running.

[BryanZ]

I got my xanthan gum today and started playing with it randomly at lunch. I understand the clumping problem that others have mentioned now. I need to find a salt shaker so I can get more even dispersal. I also understand the slightly slippery quality that xanthan gives to liquids when used in large quantities, though I don't find it entirely unpleasant. The clumping/lack of even dispersal are what bothered me the most.

[alexw]

have been using xanthan now for some time, primarily as a thickener, I use it for red pepper jus, which is pepper juice, reduce witha spoon of multidextrin (this helps with the shine and keeping a clean frsh flavour). pass then cool down.

blend a little (very little) at a time, until consistency is achieved and that's it. don't put too much in though, or you will have one bowl of red snot, minor drawback to not watching what you are doing as i discovered some time ago.

as for the activa (TG), as far as I am aware, you don't need a licence in the UK for it, I just googled till I found a supplier in my country, have to buy it by the KG though, a bit rough at £75+ per KG, they will sometimes send samples though. if you can get hold of it ask for the EB and not the SB for general glueing, I found the SB too fine a powder and a little easy to mess up then breath it in, dodgy.

[BryanZ]

Thanks for the input alexw. I recently picked up some Activa RM, which was recommended to me by Ajinomoto's product rep. Apparently that's what all the big boys are using these days. I plan to start a "TG homecooking" thread once I get access to a decent kitchen.

As for the xanthan gum, it is kind of cool. I've been uping the ante, so to speak, and have thickened a bunch of random stuff to vary degrees. I still haven't used any in any dishes yet because I, once again, don't have access to a proper kitchen at the moment.

[culinary bear]

I've worked with xanthan gum professionally. When I worked with Ian Morgan he was using it - laughingly referred to as 'Anthrax powder' - to stabilise foams so that they'd last longer on the plate.

A litre of chicken froth-base needed 1-2 tsp of powdered xanthan gum in order to gain more stability, and gave a good lasting froth that didn't linger on the tongue longer than was needed.

The xanthan powder was added directly to the warm froth mix with no slaking needed, just a 30-second blitzing with the stick blender.

For the record, we got ours from MSK foods (hideously pricy for what it was, too).

Edited March 2, 2006 by culinary bear (log)

[alexw]

The xanthan powder was added directly to the warm froth mix with no slaking needed, just a 30-second blitzing with the stick blender.

For the record, we got ours from MSK foods (hideously pricy for what it was, too).

←

I am using lecithin mainly for my foams, but am cold foaming for a little temp contrast on hot dishes.

as for supply, we use wild harvest for our basic chems, as MSK prices are through the roof, their agar is 4 times the price (or was) that it is mail order from the spice shop in notting hill.

Alex.

[alexw]

Thanks for the input alexw.  I recently picked up some Activa RM, which was recommended to me by Ajinomoto's product rep.  Apparently that's what all the big boys are using these days.  I plan to start a "TG homecooking" thread once I get access to a decent kitchen.

As for the xanthan gum, it is kind of cool.  I've been uping the ante, so to speak, and have thickened a bunch of random stuff to vary degrees.  I still haven't used any in any dishes yet because I, once again, don't have access to a proper kitchen at the moment.

←

my home kitchen is pretty pants for full on playing, but have to do most of my fun research at home cos work is too damn busy and the boys just whinge when I get in the way too much.

but at home I keep getting the kids trying to help me, and when my backs turned I find them dusted in TG, or vac packing my recipe notes and other fun kid stuff, so have to also select kitchen time to when they are safely in school. my point being, your kitchen sets the boundaries of your imagination, and I'm sure you could start glueing things straight away, one thing I did for the family the other week, was get a couple of chicken breasts, glue them together, thin end to fat, pulling the skin so it joined, wrap in cling film and vac. poach @ 63C for 1 hour. rest for 20 mins, (the chicken not me), then sear the skin in a non stick pan cut and serve as a chicken "fillet" with traditional steak garnish.

Alex.

[scott123]

I've been giving some thought to an air bubble free xanthan based sauce.

I haven't tried it, but I believe that if you sprinkle the xanthan onto the liquid and stir it gently once, you should then be able to refrigerate it overnight to completely hydrate. The next day, in theory, you should be able to gently incorporate the hydrated portion with the rest of the liquid.

One other thing I figured out in my xanthan adventures- Once hydrated it has a very short shelf life. I tried making a thick xanthan unflavored 'base' in advance and after about 4 days I had red fuzz growing on it.