Carbonation

[bleachboy]

I just finished a bottle of 2001 "Dr. M Prum" Riesling (spectacular, BTW) and I swear it was ever so lightly carbonated.

Do winemakers ever add carbon dioxide to the equation in a non-"sparkling" wine?

[Mayhaw Man]

Well, it is entirely possible that there was some residual yeast in the wine when it was bottled and this is what caused the carbonation. Did you notice any sediment in the bottom of the bottle? It would not take much to cause this to happen.

[bleachboy]

There was no sediment, but you may be on to something. The bubbles were very small, only noticeable when you first poured the glass, but I could definitely feel them on my tongue, and my wife agreed. I brought up this topic because at a tasting of Spanish wines a few weeks ago, the person conducting the tasting seemed to mention something offhand about the winemaker adding CO2 before corking the bottles, and I thought maybe it was the same case.

German wines are frequently high in sugar (but also acid, and this one was mouthwateringly acidic) so although I don't know jack about yeast, it sounds plausible to me.

[Mayhaw Man]

Generally the bottle purge in high speed bottling operations will be done with nitrogen, as it is an inert gas and will have no effect whatsoever on the product. Some producers may use co2 for the same effect, but this would ADD no carbonation as co2 needs to be injected into a liquid, under pressure, and held at a relatively low temp in order for it to be absorbed into the liquid.

Injection carbonation is very common in beer bottling operations and you will notice that the bubbles in most commercially produced beer are very large as opposed to those that are produced in a decently made homebrew or Champagne (these bubbles are produced by secondary, in package, fermentation. In the case of champagne that is the reason for the wire basket on the bottle as the process for removing yeast from the bottle is good, but not always complete, and there may be some yeast remaining in the bottle. There is almost enough residual fermentables for the yeast to react with and eventually this could cause the cork to blow.

[Carolyn Tillie]

There are two another possibilities that no one else has mentioned - Brettanomyces and reverting ML.

Brett is a form of yeast that is used in some wine making that can produce a carbonated-like sensation.

Reverting ML (or malolactic fermentation) occasionally occurs in wines and is hard to explain. I recently experienced it in a rather expensive, Carneros Pinot Noir. The producers asked me to return every bottle I had because somehow, in their wine-making process, the wine was re-fermenting in the bottle - or Reverting ML.

[bleachboy]

Admittedly, I'm a gigantic fan of Germanic whites. I probably have 15-20 bottles right now in my tiny apartment. But this didn't taste like a mistake -- it was really delightful just how it was. I will probably buy a few bottles of this wine again once I make it back to the "we carry obscure wines" shop here in Nashville. The only word on the label I didn't understand was "Erzeugerabfullung" which could mean "very lightly carbonated German white" for all I know. There's none of the normal indications on the label, i.e. "Kabinett", "Spatslese", etc.

[Andre]

Fermentation in cold temperatures may lead to the sensation that you felt.

The colder=longer fermentation process releases CO2 and although the procedure may be over, some tiny bubbles might be fealt on the tip or front of your tongue after the bottling.

You will note that an open in the glass they tend to disapear after 10 minutes or so.

They may be common to cold climate young white wines.

[dlc]

"Erzeugerabfullung"

This is the German equivalent of "estate bottled". You will find it on most high quality German wines. The "spritzyness" that you mention can happen in may white wines. I have had the same sensation with bottles of Sancerre and Pinot Gris. There is a French word they use to describe this thay I dont know how to spell but phonetically it is "pettilaince".

PS

Did you get this from Hoyt?

[Brad Ballinger]

What you experienced is not out of the realm of normal. Typically German whites, particularly those from the Mosel (like Prum's wines) will show some spritz. As mentioned above, with aeration, it will dissipate, but you will find it there as a result of cold fermentation.

What you had is Prum's Estate Bottled Riesling. You'll probably find the letters QbA or the words Qualitätswein bestimmter Anbaugebiete on the label. This is a designation below Qualitätswein mit Pradikat -- the classification that carries the terms kabinett, spatlese, etc., that you mentioned. The Estate Bottled wine can be had for much less that the Pradikat wines. Donnhoff's Estate Bottled Riesling QbA is a quite popular choice for those who don't want to pay double (sometimes more) for their Pradikat wines.

Regarding "petillant," it is used to describe this sort of effervescence in some wine. It is also used as a label term for certain sparkling wines, such has Huet's Vouvray Petillant Brut.

[bleachboy]

Wow, thanks for the info, guys! eGullet comes through again.

dlc: Not this time -- this wine came from Nashville Wine and Spirits? in Belle Meade.

[dlc]

Was this one of David's Terry Theise selections?

[bleachboy]

Nope. The "Dr. M. Prum" was Rudi Wiest. The Terry Theise selections always seem to be a safe bet, though. A couple of nights ago I served their 1995 Donnhoff Oberhauser Brucke Riesling Spatlese as an apertif and it was simply wonderful. Even my "wine hater" aunt-in-law liked it.

[Chris Kissack]

There are plenty of suggested answers in this thread, but I'm fairly sure Andre has it right. This is a sign of a small amount of residual carbon dioxide, a product of the fermentation, which was still dissolved in the wine at the time of bottling. Many German wines demonstrate this, but particularly those from good quality producers that bottle early to maintain fruit and freshness. The presence of a little bit of dissolved CO2 is a pleasant side effect of this practice. I first encountered it in a bottle of Chilean Sauvignon Blanc but that is fairly unusual - but in German QbA's or Kabinetts from good producers it is more common.

Just to dispel some of the other suggested explanations:

Brett is a yeast (single celled fungus) not a bacterium. It would not be expected to produce refermentation, and is not actively used in winemaking. Many wines display Brett characters - animal odours, farmyards, sewage, cheese, metallic notes, sticking plaster - and some may regard these as faults, some may enjoy them, it depends on the amount of Brett and on the taster. The Brett yeast originates in the vineyard or may be contaminating the winery structure or equipment. I could go on a lot more, as Brett can be a fairly controversial topic and it has been the subject of much debateon the 'net already!

I don't quite understand how refermentation in the bottle - a recognised problem if a producer under-sulphurs because of a desire for a more 'natural' product - can be reverting malolactic fermentation. I'm not even sure the malo generates gas - and if malo can be commonly reversed - if there are any winemakers out there who could enlighten me I'd like to see their explanation of this.

BWs

Chris Kissack

Edited March 15, 2004 by Chris Kissack (log)

[jddoyle]

I've had a 1999 Girardin (from his Baron de la Charierre bottlings)Maranges 1er Loyeres that last year had that "fizz" on the tongue which blew off after about 15 minutes. The only thing I could think that it was was a secondary fermentation, though now I think it may have been brett. It was a great wine (and I've got three more) after the bubbles blew off but it is very "earthy".

Does this type of thing happen often with reds or red burgundies in general?

[Boris_A]

A bit of spritz is common for uqite a number of Swiss white wines ((chasselas) from the lake of geneva region. The locals appreciate this subtlety very much with wines intended for apéritif. It's going away with 2-3 years of bottle aging.

The explanation Andre gave is absolutely correct, as far as I know.

[Chris Kissack]

The only thing I could think that it was was a secondary fermentation, though now I think it may have been brett.

Brett and fermentation in the bottles are two completely different things. Brett is a description of odours/flavours caused by Brett yeast and is not the same as fermentation in the bottle.

BWs

Chris Kissack

[jddoyle]

The only thing I could think that it was was a secondary fermentation, though now I think it may have been brett.

Brett and fermentation in the bottles are two completely different things. Brett is a description of odours/flavours caused by Brett yeast and is not the same as fermentation in the bottle.

BWs

Chris Kissack

Thanks! Is secondary fermentation a bad thing? Please excuse my ignorance.

Jay

[Miguelito]

I ended up with a case of '96 Buehler Estate cab that is slightly fizzy (at least the first three bottles, which I recently opened, are). I viewed that as a very bad thing!

Got it as a gift year or so ago, so I can't very well return it to the retailer. Does anyone think Buehler would/should replace it if I let them know of the problem?

I suppose an underlying question is whether fizziness is indicative of a problem that must have arisen prior to bottling, i.e., that this is a defect attributable to something that must have happened at the winery, not in any subsequent handling. (I believe that to be the case, but I do not claim to be the World's Leading Expert.)

Thanks.

[wnissen]

Yep, that seems to be a winery defect. It takes specific handling to produce a wine with intentional "spritz," and aging in barrel or wooden tank (as your wine presumably did) is not it. If the wine tastes "funny," you definitely have a fault, and they should replace it, although you will probably get the current vintage, and there may be issues about who pays for shipping. However, they almost certainly bottled an unstable wine, one with remaining fermentable sugars, or one that had not completed malolactic. This sort of thing happens at the winery, but the bad effects may not be known until the bottles sit at room temperature for a while.

Walt

[Boris_A]

a case of '96 Buehler Estate cab that is slightly fizzy ....  I viewed that as a very bad thing!

Probably rightly so.

There are some distinct fizzy reds out there (Lambrusco, some Barbera and similar from Italy coming to my mind), but fizzy greatly strengthens the effect of tannins. So a red fizzy wine should be vinified very carefully. Otherwise you end up with a very harsh wine with overpronounced tannins.

Actually, I'v never heard of Californian fizzy cab, so I suspect it's a clear fault. But I'm no expert for Calif cabs.

[jddoyle]

Well in my case after it blew off the wine was excellent and exactly as I remembered it. I didn't find it as a fault at all, just something I had to wait out.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Thanks! Is secondary fermentation a bad thing? Please excuse my ignorance.

No problem about your ignorance! I was completely ignorant to it as well, until I opened my expensive Pinot! I couldn't explain what I was tasting other than it was "spritzy" and very minerally.

It was a very bad thing.

[jddoyle]

No problem about your ignorance! I was completely ignorant to it as well, until I opened my expensive Pinot! I couldn't explain what I was tasting other than it was "spritzy" and very minerally.

It was a very bad thing.

That is weird, mine was a burgundy but it went away and all was fine.

Maybe my taste wasn't keyed in on it...

[KatieLoeb]

Brett is a yeast (single celled fungus) not a bacterium. It would not be expected to produce refermentation, and is not actively used in winemaking. Many wines display Brett characters - animal odours, farmyards, sewage, cheese, metallic notes, sticking plaster - and some may regard these as faults, some may enjoy them, it depends on the amount of Brett and on the taster. The Brett yeast originates in the vineyard or may be contaminating the winery structure or equipment. I could go on a lot more, as Brett can be a fairly controversial topic and it has been the subject of much debateon the 'net already!

I always thought that Brett smelled "like Band-Aids". Am I the only one that's come across this particular descriptor?

[Miguelito]

I always thought that Brett smelled "like Band-Aids". Am I the only one that's come across this particular descriptor?

Nope. Me, too. I have also heard the same scent described as "phenolic" and ascribed to the same source.