Taillevent vs. Grand Vefour

[Pan]

I can tell you that the staff at Grand V. are VERY friendly and relaxing while the staff at ADPA are very snobby and uptight... Personally, I prefer the snobby and uptight staff, but it's all personal preference...

Lemme get this straight: You seriously prefer snobby and uptight service?

[BackwardsHat]

BackwardsHat: How was L'Astrance?

Astrance was awesome... They had the best service of any of the restaurants I visited... I'll post a full review soon...

[BackwardsHat]

I can tell you that the staff at Grand V. are VERY friendly and relaxing while the staff at ADPA are very snobby and uptight... Personally, I prefer the snobby and uptight staff, but it's all personal preference...

Lemme get this straight: You seriously prefer snobby and uptight service?

Yeah, I tend to like the more rude/snobby/mean service when I go to "fancy" restaurants, don't ask me why, I just do... In fact, that's probably the reason I liked the service at Astrance the best... Those guys were by the book on everything, they run a VERY tight ship, very impressive service in my eyes... I also enjoy restaurants that are difficult to get into, it makes the experience more complete for me... Again, another reason I probably liked Astrance so much... (There were 2 empty tables and they turned people at the door away at like 9:30PM, and yes, the tables remained empty all night)...

Guy Savoy had the best food by the way, and was the best "overall" experience for me (even though they were super friendly!)...

Edited April 14, 2004 by BackwardsHat (log)

[Pan]

Again, another reason I probably liked Astrance so much... (There were 2 empty tables and they turned people at the door away at like 9:30PM, and yes, the tables remained empty all night)...

What the Hell do you think that was about?

[BackwardsHat]

Again, another reason I probably liked Astrance so much...  (There were 2 empty tables and they turned people at the door away at like 9:30PM, and yes, the tables remained empty all night)...

What the Hell do you think that was about?

I suspect they didn't have reservations and were hoping to get lucky with a last minute cancelation, which I assume happened because I was surprised to see 2 empty tables... 1 table is normal maybe, that's fine, but TWO emptys in a place as small as Astrance tells me that someone bailed at the last minute... Either way, the management was not letting anyone in without a res, even though they had the tables... But who knows what the real story was...

[Carlsbad]

After seriously considering whether I want to stay up until 1:00 a.m. to try to get a reservation at L'Astrance 30 days before I get to Paris, I've made a decision. I'll pass.

[Pan]

Either way, the management was not letting anyone in without a res, even though they had the tables...

That's what doesn't make sense to me. You'd think they'd lose money that way...

[Louisa Chu]

That's what doesn't make sense to me. You'd think they'd lose money that way...

Yes - but that's not their primary concern. The day that I went to Rungis with the chef - Pascal Barbot - his primary focus - joie de vivre - was on his freedom. He'd said that he did NOT have money - but he had happiness. He said that the money could come later - over time. My God - I love the French sometimes.

And one more thing - about the allegedly hard to keep L'Astrance reservations - I don't buy it - at least not by any fault of the restaurant's. It's hard to think of a more more conscientious group of restaurant people anywhere in the world.

And the day to go - Tuesday night for dinner. The chef goes to Rungis Tuesday morning and picks up things for which he has no plans whatsoever - it's a night to share in some gastronomic discovery.

[Pan]

Louisa, I really don't see how the right to lose money by refusing to fill two tables has much to do with "freedom." I guess they're free to close the restaurant, too, in that case.

[BackwardsHat]

That's what doesn't make sense to me. You'd think they'd lose money that way...

Yes - but that's not their primary concern. The day that I went to Rungis with the chef - Pascal Barbot - his primary focus - joie de vivre - was on his freedom. He'd said that he did NOT have money - but he had happiness. He said that the money could come later - over time. My God - I love the French sometimes.

And one more thing - about the allegedly hard to keep L'Astrance reservations - I don't buy it - at least not by any fault of the restaurant's. It's hard to think of a more more conscientious group of restaurant people anywhere in the world.

And the day to go - Tuesday night for dinner. The chef goes to Rungis Tuesday morning and picks up things for which he has no plans whatsoever - it's a night to share in some gastronomic discovery.

Interesting, I went on Tuesday night (the night that they suggested to me when I made a reservation over the phone), although I had the Surprise menu, so I'm not sure if I benefited from the Chef's discoveries of the day because I've heard you need to order a la carte to enjoy the "hidden gems" at some of these places... Is that true for Astrance loufood?

Also, I totally agree with you regarding the "hard to keep" Astrance reservations... I was reading about the "disappearing" reservations and I had the exact OPPOSITE experience... When I called to confirm both times, they instantly knew my name and said, "Yes, of course you are confirmed". When I arrived, they didn't even look up my name in the reservation book when I announced myself. As I said before, it is a VERY smooth operation they are running there...

And loufood, I totally believe what you say about barbot... It all makes sense now... They could charge quite a bit more for the food there, but with the current prices, I think Astrance is the bargain of the year... I was wondering why they weren't charging more or using a bigger space with more tables??? Now I know... I'm very glad that they are chosing quality and happiness over initial profit, it's a very forward-looking view that is rare these days and I am sure they will be rewarded for it, I know that I will continue to go back there as much as possible...

Edited April 14, 2004 by BackwardsHat (log)

[Bux]

Again, another reason I probably liked Astrance so much...  (There were 2 empty tables and they turned people at the door away at like 9:30PM, and yes, the tables remained empty all night)...

What the Hell do you think that was about?

Pan, there are a number of reasons a restaurant might turn away a walk in diner when there's an empty table in the house. The most obvious one is that the table is reserved by a no show. To understand this you may need to be familiar with the differences between NY and Paris when it comes to find restaurants. In Paris you don't reserve a table for a specific time at a fine restaurant. You reserve the table for the evening. You may say you expect to arrive at 8:00 PM, but if you show up at 9:30, or even 10:00 PM, you will be assured your table is waiting for you. Tables are not turned and you will not be asked to sit at the bar because some party is taking too long to pay their bill, or have just ordered a second cup of coffee or a cognac. The only honorable recourse for a respectable restaurant with any pretense towards being in the "fine restaurant" category, would be to suffer the loss of a no show quietly in private. Paris is not NY and every time an American thinks lightly of not showing up at his reserved table, he makes it harder for Americans to get a reservation, harder perhaps than the boor who shows up, speaks in a loud voice on his cellphone and orders Coca-Cola as an aperatif.

You may well ask if at some time it doesn't appear that the no show if obviously not coming. My answer would be yes, but that time would be when it's too late to serve that party a full meal without keep the kitchen open past the time the staff deserves to go home. That's another difference that is, or at least used to be, between Europe and the US. The bottom line here has been the bottom line, whereas in parts of Europe, they've clung to that quaint idea that the quality of their life is not based on the amount of their paycheck. I understand that kind of reasoning.

That may even play a part in wanting to discourage walk ins under any circumstances. There's a greater control and order to one's life when a chef knows in advance how many covers he will handle that evening. France is also a nation with a more tightly defined sense of propriety and a more formal code of manners. It's considered respectful to call ahead with a reservation at a nice restaurant. We might see the demand for a phone call as pretentious, but the French live by different rules and enjoy order and control. In the end, it all amounts to the fact that owning and operating a restaurant is not the easiest way to make a living, so if one is doing it, why not enjoy it to the maximum rather than worry about the empty table.

[Louisa Chu]

Michael - it's NOT about losing the money - it's just not possible to start a surprise second service at gastronomic restaurants - especially at L'Astrance where they have a TINY kitchen. It's about keeping standards - and some semblance of a life outside of the restaurant. I'm not talking about going out for a drink - I'm talking about catching the last Metro in time to get home for a few hours of sleep - before starting this all over again the next morning for lunch service.

BackwardsHat - I'm not sure where the chef's market dishes show up. When I went to Rungis with him he found some crosnes/Asian baby artichokes - I asked him how he was going to prepare them - he said he didn't know yet - and gave me a look like it was so weird that I even asked. Smackdown.

[saycheese]

BackwardsHat,

What the heck did you do to get a table in all of those great restaurants? Bribes? Favors? Secret passwords? Usually I contact a number of restaurants asking for varous dates, and am lucky to get even 1 that is not "complet" when I would like to go. What's your secret? Enquiring minds want to know. . .

[BackwardsHat]

BackwardsHat,

What the heck did you do to get a table in all of those great restaurants?  Bribes?  Favors?  Secret passwords?  Usually I contact a number of restaurants asking for varous dates, and am lucky to get even 1 that is not "complet" when I would like to go.  What's your secret?  Enquiring minds want to know. . .

Nope, no bribes, secret passwords, or favors...

I just did my research on the policies of the restaurants and planned accordingly and in advance (although only about 1 month in advance, but apparently it was enough)... I think the best advice I can give you is to be as authoritative and confident as possible over the phone when making reservations... I definitely had the distinct impression a few times that the person on the other end of the phone was trying to scare me off by being rude but I always stood my ground and ended up with 6 reservations, all with great tables and absolutely no problems when I showed up at the restaurants...

Oh, one other thing I did was call every restaurant to re-confirm once I got to Paris, and I gave them my local cell phone number in Paris (I bought a sim card for my phone so I'd have a local mobile number) and I think many of the restaurants appreciated that...

But anyway, I have no "secret"... Honestly, I think there is a lot of luck involved for first time reservations... But, remember, if you do get in, and plan to go again, definitely let the head waiter, or maitre d, or whoever is around that night when you are eating dinner, know that you want to return... They should (if you didn't do something to piss them off) tell you the best way to get another reservation, and they may even pencil you into the reservation book if you know about when you will be returning...

Hopefully I've been helpful... Let me know if you have any other questions...

Edited April 14, 2004 by BackwardsHat (log)

[BackwardsHat]

Michael - it's NOT about losing the money - it's just not possible to start a surprise second service at gastronomic restaurants - especially at L'Astrance where they have a TINY kitchen. It's about keeping standards - and some semblance of a life outside of the restaurant. I'm not talking about going out for a drink - I'm talking about catching the last Metro in time to get home for a few hours of sleep - before starting this all over again the next morning for lunch service.

BackwardsHat - I'm not sure where the chef's market dishes show up. When I went to Rungis with him he found some crosnes/Asian baby artichokes - I asked him how he was going to prepare them - he said he didn't know yet - and gave me a look like it was so weird that I even asked. Smackdown.

No baby asian artichokes for me when I wen... Here's a quick rundown of what the surprise menu at Astrance was for me (you guys can tell me if it's changed much, I'm quite curious actually)

Amuse - Saffron creme mousse, pea mousse, and lemon mousse in a chilled shot glass.

Entree #1 - The specialty of the house, the avocado with crab and almond oil

Entree #2 - Duck fois gras, 2 layers sandwiched 3 layers of mushroom, lemon sauce on the side and mint on the side as well.

Entree #3 - Scallop w/ cucumbre, cucombre sauce, flowers, and thin radish slices

Entree #4 - Puree chorizo in yellow whipped sauce w/ green peas and onion

Lemongrass & pepper shot of sorbee served in between Entree #4 and Plat #1

Plat #1 - Sole fish fillet, raw oyster, caviar, caviar in jelly, endive, all with dark green parsely sauce

Plat #2 - Loire valley fillet, asparagus, mushrooms

Mystery Soup was served in between Plat #2 and #3

Plat #3 - Lamb dish (sooooooo good!!!) with cheese sauce, onion, peas, and carrots

Dessert #1 - Strawberry, cream, biscuit with ice cream

Dessert #2 - Chocolat & praline with praline sauce on side

OK, that's all I can remember right now... I didn't get a menu either since the surprise menu is not written down... I will post more detailed comments when I post my full review of all the restaurants but I decided to write what I had now since we're on the topic of astrance and the ingredients they use...

[BackwardsHat]

Maybe I should make a separate Astrance thread? I was hoping to get some comments on the past surprise menus...

[Margaret Pilgrim]

BackwardsHat,

What the heck did you do to get a table in all of those great restaurants?  Bribes?  Favors?  Secret passwords?  Usually I contact a number of restaurants asking for varous dates, and am lucky to get even 1 that is not "complet" when I would like to go.   What's your secret?  Enquiring minds want to know. . .

Nope, no bribes, secret passwords, or favors...

I just did my research on the policies of the restaurants and planned accordingly and in advance (although only about 1 month in advance, but apparently it was enough)... I think the best advice I can give you is to be as authoritative and confident as possible over the phone when making reservations... I definitely had the distinct impression a few times that the person on the other end of the phone was trying to scare me off by being rude but I always stood my ground and ended up with 6 reservations, all with great tables and absolutely no problems when I showed up at the restaurants...

Oh, one other thing I did was call every restaurant to re-confirm once I got to Paris, and I gave them my local cell phone number in Paris (I bought a sim card for my phone so I'd have a local mobile number) and I think many of the restaurants appreciated that...

But anyway, I have no "secret"... Honestly, I think there is a lot of luck involved for first time reservations... But, remember, if you do get in, and plan to go again, definitely let the head waiter, or maitre d, or whoever is around that night when you are eating dinner, know that you want to return... They should (if you didn't do something to piss them off) tell you the best way to get another reservation, and they may even pencil you into the reservation book if you know about when you will be returning...

Hopefully I've been helpful... Let me know if you have any other questions...

Exactly. Perhaps Backward Hat's response deserves a thread of its own. I'll admit that many reservations seem impossible to get, but following a restaurant's reservation procedure to the letter, with the courtesy of a follow up confirmation, is always a good place to start. Nicely done, BH.

[snoopy64]

Thank you for all the great suggestions. We decided on visiting Grand Vefour during our October trip. We made reservations over the phone in August (in French), and confimed two weeks before (again in French).

Once we got to Paris, we stopped by the day before our reservation to confirm again. This time, we were told that we had no reservation! The guy didn't even bother to look at the book before telling us this! I told him I had reserved and confirmed, but he insisted that he was the only one who took reservations and that he had never taken mine. He suggested that perhaps I had called another place by mistake!! He also suggest that Grand Vefour always confirms the reservation by sending a fax. I told him I was not told this before and had not received any fax.

I assume that my reservation was either sold or I was bumped for a celebrity.

My brother encountered the same problem at Taillevent some years ago so I was particular about confirming my reservations.

Has this happened to anyone else?

For those who have dined at Grand Vefour, was there a fax sent to you?

Signed,

Disappointed and hungry in Paris

[Pan]

No fax was sent to me by Grand Vefour in the summer of 2002 when I was part of a 4-top for lunch. I communicated by email and then called from the U.S. and was informed that I had already been given reservations based on my email (confirmation by email); upon arriving in Paris, I called to reconfirm. I have no idea whether they now routinely send confirmation by fax, but how very disappointing that they somehow deprived you of your reservations!

[Bux]

Mrs. B always makes it a point to ask for the name of the person to whom she's speaking when she makes a reservation, especially in Europe. I think it's a good idea.

[snoopy64]

No fax was sent to me by Grand Vefour in the summer of 2002 when I was part of a 4-top for lunch. I communicated by email and then called from the U.S. and was informed that I had already been given reservations based on my email (confirmation by email); upon arriving in Paris, I called to reconfirm. I have no idea whether they now routinely send confirmation by fax, but how very disappointing that they somehow deprived you of your reservations!

←

In hindsight, and knowing what happened to my brother, I should have asked for a confirmation in writing.

On the bright side, I was able to console myself with a very enjoyable meal at L'Atelier Maitre Albert.

I will post my review of our Paris food experiences later this week.

[fabienpe]

Once we got to Paris, we stopped by the day before our reservation to confirm again. This time, we were told that we had no reservation!

This is odd.

Now few weeks ago I've booked (by telephone) GF for lunch in Dec (dinner was full already) and they told me to re-confirm 2 days before. They asked for a phone number but not for a fax number (i gave the number of my brother who lives in Paris).

What information did they ask you when you booked apart your name?

[zoeadler]

oooo....I'd agree with many of the posters. I went to Taillevent with my Dad when he came to visit - I live in Paris - and it was SO dissapointing. Service was SUPER snobby, the atmosphere was pretentious, the lighting was too bright and made it feel almost like a cafeteria and the food was good...but you could get the same in a great brasserie. The meal was very traditional french, not inventive at all and not interesting at all. The crowd was mostly japanese tourists and businessmen. I cannot begin to explain how let down I was by the experience. It seems like a place business men take clients to impress them....i.e. not foodies who are just their for the experience. I haven't been to the Grand Vefour but I've heard that the atmosphere is dreamy there...can't comment on the food. Ambroisie however would be my choice as the food was outstanding and the atosphere very luxurious and decadent without being pretentious. The staff and service is impeccable and very friendly. I'd love to try Ducasse, have heard nothing but praise so would also say check that out.

[little ms foodie]

oooo....I'd agree with many of the posters. I went to Taillevent with my Dad when he came to visit - I live in Paris - and it was SO dissapointing. Service was SUPER snobby, the atmosphere was pretentious, the lighting was too bright and made it feel almost like a cafeteria and the food was good...but you could get the same in a great brasserie. The meal was very traditional french, not inventive at all and not interesting at all. The crowd was mostly japanese tourists and businessmen. I cannot begin to explain how let down I was by the experience. It seems like a place business men take clients to impress them....i.e. not foodies who are just their for the experience. I haven't been to the Grand Vefour but I've heard that the atmosphere is dreamy there...can't comment on the food. Ambroisie however would be my choice as the food was outstanding and the atosphere very luxurious and decadent without being pretentious. The staff and service is impeccable and very friendly. I'd love to try Ducasse, have heard nothing but praise so would also say check that out.

←

I think there are different rooms at Taillevent as we sat in a richly paneled room that was very dimly lit, not dark but nice and private feeling.

Can't imagine anyone thinking that the food was similar to brasserie food! But then again I had the tasting menu so again that may have been different.

[serge]

Hi everybody,

you can see here very nice pictures of what Taillevent looks like and what kind of food is served :

http://www.pbase.com/stevezzzz/taillevent&page=all

You can also find quotes excerpted from the delightful book "A Meal Observed" by Andrew Todhunter.

Bon appétit!

Serge