Has Jean-Georges Vongerichten Jumped the Shark?

[Sneakeater]

Although, I should add this about Perry Street:

Our server made a very big deal about how "the chef" changes the menu seasonally to account for availability of ingredients and is always concocting "new" dishes to keep the menu fresh.

So it came as something of a surprise when I opened the menu and it mostly was identical to what they were serving last summer.

[Sneakeater]

Just to be clear, what I'm saying is, I don't think the proposition that today's Bruni review stands for is that JGV has "jumped the shark," but rather that, if even JGV can't maintain uniformly high standards throughout a very widespread culinary empire, then it's questionable whether any celebrity chef-restauranteur can.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[iheartoffal]

Oh, am I glad he's calling bunk on Mercer Kitchen. I had the grave misfortune of being duped into a meal there not long ago. Quite possibly the worst meal I've had in New York. Calling it a cynical enterprise is an understatement. Uninspired, perfunctory cuisine, clueless staff, and a poorly selected, hideously marked-up wine list.

[Sneakeater]

I had the same type of experience there a couple of years ago. I was shocked.

[slkinsey]

actually, one should probably add the residential corollary to the JG rule:

JG's flagship, newest restaurant and any restaurant he lives above will always be superlative.

Except that I didn't get the impression anyone thought that 66 and Spice Market were any great shakes when they were JGV's newest restaurants at the time.

[Sneakeater]

Went to 66 last night, it's very much the scene the newspaper predicted. Lots of designer labels, tall modelish women and un obstrusive but cool music.  The organization is still a little off (we were made to wait 30 minutes for our table.), but the staff was very courteous, and the service impeccable.  We ordered the shrimp hargow, which was like the traditional kind of dumplings served in traditional chinese dimsum, only ten times better.  The shrimps were succulent, with a delicate hint of ginger, accompanied by soy sauce spiked with five spice powder.  Also ordered were a different version of shrimp dumplings which was not at all Chinese: shrimps with foie gras, formed into a quenelle like texture, but it takes fusion cuisine to the next level.  Entrees shared with the garlic lacqured fried chicken and steamed black bass with lotus seeds and crispy rice.  I hate chicken, but it was said to have paper thin skin done to a crispy perfection with the consistency of a pecking duck skin, while the meat was moist and tender.  My black sea bass sits in a bath of sweet and spicy malaysian flavour broth.  It can be a little spicier, but that was quickly fixed with a dose of chili oil. 

Desserts were a  lime coconut tapioca pudding which shine in its simplicity and provides a perfect  palate cleanser to the chinese flavours.  And, an ovaltine and banana pudding that I didn't think was so great, but everyone in the table seemed to love it. 

Don't go if you are looking for traditional chinese comfort food.  But if you are looking for something a little different, 66 will change the way you see chinese food.

←

Of course, Bond Girl is known for being uncritical.

[docsconz]

actually, one should probably add the residential corollary to the JG rule:

JG's flagship, newest restaurant and any restaurant he lives above will always be superlative.

Except that I didn't get the impression anyone thought that 66 and Spice Market were any great shakes when they were JGV's newest restaurants at the time.

←

Don't forget "V".

I was ready to write JGV off completely until I had lunch at J-G last December. That was simply an exceptional experience. I am looking forward to trying Perry Street as well as returning to J-G.

[Sneakeater]

We finally managed to get a reservation at Spice Market. Things didn't start off well: the reservationists I spoke to were uniformly rude, the host who greeted us was in total anti-consumer mode ("You'll have to wait until your whole party is here"..."But we are all here"..."Well, just wait a minute then") not to mention they had misrecorded the number of people in our party, our waiter was totally aloof (moreover I was disappointed we didn't get one of the pretty waitresses with the exposed-back shirts), the explanation of the "family style" (I'm sure I'm not the first person to joke that these tiny dishes could only be called family style during a famine) approach was annoying especially "the dishes come when they're ready" as if they magically cook themselves and the kitchen has no control over sequencing, they were out of the first wine we ordered, and the first dish we had really kind of sucked. It had been described by Amanda Hesser thus:

"Egg rolls stuffed with mushrooms gleam under Mr. Vongerichten's touch. Softened shiitake and oyster mushrooms are loosely swaddled in a wrapper that is fragile and crisp on the outside. A tangy herbal galangal sauce is whipped into a celadon foam. When you dip the egg rolls, the sauce clings in a light, loose layer."

The egg rolls were heavy and super-saturated with grease, probably a sign of the frying oil being too cold or the fryer being too crowded. The mushroom filling was underseasoned and bland. Accompanying the egg rolls were two pathetic sheets of iceberg lettuce, presumably to be used as wrappers. And there was a foamy sauce (celadon doesn't strike me as an accurate description; it was more like a honeydew color) that actually would have been quite good had there been anything good to put it on.

I was all set to hate the place, at which point the rest of the food started to arrive and the meal went in a whole different direction. The other two appetizers we tried were astounding. The "shaved" tuna with tapioca pearls, little Asian pear slices, and chilies in coconut-and-kaffir-lime broth is one of the best tuna-sashimi dishes I've ever tried, and the green papaya salad is the best rendition of that dish I've had since we were in Singapore a few years ago (to use the best Thai place in the city, Sripraphai, for comparison, the Spice Market dish was much better). I couldn't bring myself to try the three-star chicken wings.

The dish of the night was a succulent piece of cod (real cod, not that black cod stuff they serve at most Asian places) served over a thick/chunky chili-garlic-ginger-scallion-Thai-basil (I think) sauce. It had that aromatic kick and barely-able-to-contain-itself flavor balance that real Southeast Asian food in Southeast Asia has and that we so rarely get to taste in New York. Also excellent was a bowl of noodles (well, the noodles were kind of dull) topped with boneless chili-and-onion-crusted braised short ribs. The noodles were better in the side dish (the only portion of the night that I thought wasn't stingy) of grilled shrimp over spicy noodles. The one weak entree was the "BBQ Skate Newton Circus." After making too many jokes about what a Skate Newton would taste like, and after a few more bad jokes about the image of a flea circus but with Fig Newtons instead of fleas, the aloof waiter was able to inform us that Newton Circus is a popular street hawker center in Singapore. I think I was there and never even absorbed that it had a name. Anyway . . . the dish could have been terrific, with its sweet barbecue glaze, but the skate was an inferior specimen and overcooked. The coconut sticky rice we were served should have been called soggy rice -- great flavor, wrong texture.

We only tried a couple of desserts -- the rice pudding and the chocolate-coffee tart -- but they were quite tasty, especially the rice pudding with its brulee top and accompanying passion-fruit shebert.

The place is gorgeous, that's for sure, and I learned this morning when looking over Steve Cuozzo's review that we were seated at a prime table ("Prime tables overlook a lower-level lounge reached by a dramatic center staircase"). I had a prime table in a Vongerichten fantasy. I have arrived.

←

Also better than "not any great shakes."

Edited August 16, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

And everybody agreed that, even if 66, Spice Market, and V Steakhouse marked a falling-off, Perry Street was a comeback.

(I know, that's a lot like this famous marital retort:

HUSBAND (to wife after she accuses him of doing something): I didn't do that. And you did it first.)

[Nathan]

Amanda Hesser hated Spice Market as well.

[Sneakeater]

Although, as I recall, most people thought at the time that she panned Spice Market only because she was bending over backwards to appear fair since JGV wrote the foreword to her book.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Nathan]

Oh I agree, I'm sure she secretly thought it was at least worth a star.

I also thought it was horrible of her to mention those vicious rumors that JG came back from Asia to discover that Kunz's menu was much too ambitious and and to revamp it less than a week before opening.

[Sneakeater]

That was the problem with her review. It was "Gray Kunz this," "Gray Kunz that." You'd never have known JGV was even involved with the place.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

On people's impressions of Spice Market when it first opened, I also have to add the following, posted here on October 1, 2004 by my ATF restaurant critic, Mimi Sheraton:

"above all Spice Market which I am crazy about..I'm thinking of moving in."

[Nathan]

SneakEater:

I detect all too much glee when you do this.

The same I noted in Leonard Kim when responding to:

"Bruni gives out far more favorable reviews than anyone else!"

and Kim would state: "I entered all 16,481 reviews in the history of the NY Times into a spreadsheet and ascertained that Bruni's median grade was no different than anyone else's."

What all this goes to demonstrate is that human memory is quite faulty.

[BigboyDan]

As with Ducasse, the test is: would you eat at the restaurant if it didn't have the chef's name attached? J-G is banking that you would, and for no other reason...

Edited August 16, 2006 by BigboyDan (log)

[oakapple]

I at at Mercer Kitchen a year or two ago, and I was underwhelmed. Today's rating of zero stars felt about right, although I expected one. I had the tasting menu at Vong last December. I thought it was very good, but perhaps it had slipped a little since Bryan Miller awarded three stars.

Various asides from Bruni have left the impression that if he were reviewing JoJo or Spice Market today, they wouldn't get the three stars earlier critics awarded. I've eaten at JoJo twice and haven't been impressed either time. I haven't tried Spice Market, except for drinks.

Perry St, I think, has already started to slide, based on various comments on eGullet and elsewhere. My second meal there was nowhere near as stellar as the first, and they still haven't fixed bread rolls that are harder than hockey pucks.

Curiously, the only JGV outlet that hasn't disappointed me yet is 66, and I've been there three or four times. I haven't been to Jean Georges, but everyone agrees that's the one place he's keeping an eye on.

After V Steakhouse was one-starred, Vongerichten said, "I don't do one-star restaurants." Well, he does them now. We'll see if today's reviews are the wake-up call.

[Sneakeater]

I don't want to come across as an apologist for a restaurant I happen to like, but I don't see any slippage in the Perry Street thread here. The three most recent reviews (all from last month) were from someone saying that his most recent meal there was even better than a previous meal there, somone who stopped in for appetizers and wondered how he had let the place escape him up till then, and (oddly) a review of your last meal there that reads like it's very favorable. Have you reconsidered in retrospect?

FWIW, I had a dinner there Monday that (to me, anyway) was no worse than any other meal I've ever had there. Although the bread is as hard as a rock.

Edited August 17, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

I guess my problem is that, just as I think JGV's residual luster caused people to overrate 66 and Spice Market when they opened (V Steakhouse I just don't know about), his apparent slide is now turning people against him more than he perhaps deserves (and remember, I had a terrible meal at Mercer Kitchen, too).

[Nathan]

fwiw, a friend of mine ate at Perry Street on Saturday night and had a wonderful meal.

I intend to stop by again shortly.

after all, JG lives in the building, one would think he would stop in the kitchen regularly. on the other hand, he probably hasn't been in to Mercer in months, if not years.

[Todd36]

I've had lunch at Vong two twice in recent months and dinner once at JoJo. Vong was OK, JoJo was good but not a good value at the price point.

[RobinsonCuisine]

I umderstand they have problems keeping staff. One of the hosts of JG was over heard offering work to a waitress at another restaurant while he was seated at her table.

Very tacky.

[Sneakeater]

Thinking about it overnight, my problem with this "jumped the shark" stuff is that I think I just have a different take on this stuff than some others.

Maybe I'm more cynical. I think I'm more realistic. But I don't expect these restaurant empires to maintain uniform quality. I said I was "shocked" at how bad my dinner was at Mercer Kitchen two or three years ago -- but I wasn't surprised. That was exactly the kind of place where I wouldn't think quality would be maintained. Certainly, when I went back to Spice Market a year after it opened, I was unsurprised that the food -- much of which had been quite good when it opened -- was nearly inedible. It would never occur to me to expect an excellent meal now in Vong, a restaurant whose initial appeal was based in large part on the then-surprising nature of the cuisine. And, although I've heard no recent reports of 66, I'd be surprised if it were still as good as when it opened -- do they still have the large staff of elite dim sum and line cooks supposedly recruited from a secret list of respected Chinatown restaurants, for example?

JoJo's slippage is disappointing, but again, with Jean-Georges in operation, and Perry Street now open, it would be surprising if JGV paid much attention to his first independent restaurant. Clearly, he's moved on. (And I say that with regret, as JoJo was once my very favorite restaurant in New York.)

I'm not condoning any of this. And I'm not saying JGV shouldn't be criticized for failing to maintain high standards at all the restaurants associated with his name. I'm just saying that I don't think it means he's "jumped the shark" in the sense that you wouldn't have high expectations for his next new place -- or that what's happening at Spice Market or Mercer Kitchen has anything to do with what you'd expect out of Jean-Georges or even, at this point, Perry Street.

Look at another example. People are reporting a slippage at Lupa now that Mark Landner has moved to Del Posto. Does that surprise anyone? Will that make anyone any less excited about whatever Batalli/Bastianich's next venture will be? Does it change your expectations of Babbo? Does it even reflect badly in any way on Mario Batalli as a chef?

In other words, I look at this problem as endemic to these chef-run restaurant empires. (Obviously, it has no applicability to restauranteur-run empires, like Danny Meyers's group -- a model that I think makes a lot more sense.) I'm not saying it's inevitable. I'm just saying it's not surprising. And, to me, doesn't really reflect on the chef-owner as a chef.

Edited August 17, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

Also, it's not like the slippage at Mercer Kitchen and Vong is new. As I keep saying, I had a terrible meal at Mercer Kitchen three years ago. Vong (and Mercer Kitchen, for that matter) has been off everyone's radar for years.* This new Times review is only a confirmation of what we all must have been aware of for years.

___________________________________________________________

* I mean, even before the review, would it occur to anyone here to even think of going to Mercer Kitchen? I ate there that last time literally only because I was meeting a friend for drinks at the hotel and we decided we were hungry but were too lazy to walk anywhere.

Edited August 17, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[docsconz]

Also, it's not like the slippage at Mercer Kitchen and Vong is new. 

←

Neither is this thread.

When this thread first started I was very much concerned that the problems existed throughout his empire. My feeling now is that, J-G for all his greatness as a Chef, is not a great emperor. So long as his main realm remains intact though, I am unconcerned about what goes on in his hinterlands. Then again if these outposts continue to succomb to the Vandals of poor management and their deteriorating reputations gnaw on his overall reputation, it might eventually make it more difficult for him to continue operating J-G as wonderfully as he has if only for financial reasons.