La Rochelle & Dordogne

[anil]

While it is not exactly a place you'll find many academies or over-abundance of intellectuals; this city is really a favourite of many academics that we know, when they want to escape the confines of Paris. Hence our introduction to he lovely city of La Rochelle

Non assuming, non pretentious with a plethora of fresh mussels,clams,crabs,lobsters.

Try a french clabake with chilled white wine by the docks

[Jonathan Day]

It does look like an interesting city. However, I am surprised that you identified it by its name and not by LRH, its airport code. It seems to be served by flights to Clermont-Ferrand and London.

(Edit: and service via Paris Orly as from tomorrow, 4 May)

Edited May 3, 2003 by Jonathan Day (log)

[anil]

..... I am surprised that you identified it by its name and not by LRH, its airport code.....

It began that way - However, I checked my instincts and expanded to the name of the city.

[Jon Tseng]

I think Cognac is in relatively close proximity :-)

J

[Mrs Woman]

hello

Myself and boyfriend are popping over the Channel to France this summer. We intend to fly to Bordeaux on Weds or Thur, pick up a rental car and drive to La Rochelle where we intend to stay in a hotel until Sat am. We would then like to spend a week in a cottage or gite in the Dordogne for a week.

If anyone has any recs for hotels and restaurants for La Rochelle, and anything to say at all about the Dordogne - we haven't booked anything yet - it would be much appreciated if you should share them with me.

My boyfriend is not a great one for formal restaurants abroad - he doesn't feel he should wear a tie on his holidays! Are all French Michelins this formal?

Thanks!

[menton1]

The Dordogne is our favorite area in France. The topography, the history, and the food all combine to make for a joyous experience indeed. There are over 1200 castles, all with a long history from pre-Renaissance. There are several grottes (caves) with drawings dating back 15,000 years ago. Do not miss Font-de-Gaume, and the Caves of Peche-Merle. You need to make an appointment in advance because attendance is limited to 200 visitors/day.

We stayed the last visit in a lovely Chambre d'hote (B & B) in the town of Gramat. It is centrally located in the area, not far from the caves, Rocamadour, and the great towns of Sarlat and Cahors. Don't miss the Saturday markets in these 2 towns. The building and rooms here are gorgeous, and a bargain as well. Be sure to also take the dinner as it is a home-cooked meal with local cuisine and unlimited Bergerac wine. It is called the Moulin de Fresquet and here is the web site: Moulin de Fresquet Web Site

And please report back on your trip here! Bon voyage!

[Steve Martin]

One of our favourite restaurants is in La Rochelle. Richard Coutanceau

http://www.coutanceauonline.com

I find the French to be inept dressers who don't wear ties either. So no worries, especially at a friendly place like Coutanceau.

I nearly always book gites from here

I've heard the Dordogne is full of Dutch, who don't wear ties either

[victornet]

You'll eat well in the Dordogne.

It's been many years since my last visit, but the hotel Cro Magnon (in Les Eyzies I think) was very memorable.

If you are an art lover and travel as far as Montauban, be sure to see the Ingres museum, and don't miss the collection of torture instruments in the basement!

[vmilor]

Near Agen, at Puymirol there is a very interesting hotel/restaurant which is known by the chef's name, Trama. The hotel is called Les Loges de l'Aubergade. The rooms are minimalistic with great taste and when Trama is on, his cooking is very unique.

As far as I know the only restaurant in France, or kind of in France, that requires a necktie is Louis Quinze in Monte Carlo. This is more a New York thing. I symphatize with your boyfriend in that when your necktie gets a spot dry cleaning does not help--silk neck ties get wrinkled. Out of 4 haute cuisine nights, I end up with a spot on my tie 75% of the time. Others can do better but I will honestly doubt the passion of a gourmet who says they never get a spot on the tie in exciting restaurants. I believe the so called French restaurants in New York are in cahoots with the necktie industry and it used to be one of my favorite sports to show up at Bernardin or what not without a tie, and them have them give me one so I would eat with no prohibition. In old times, at least in France, it used to be perfectly acceptable to tuck your napkin in your shirt but with the demise of old traditional cuisine I only see this practice in some blue collar neighbourhood bistrots--where the food can be very good indeed. At any rate in the hottest addresses nowdays, in France or Spain or Italy, wearing a nectie is a negative which conveys the wrong signal. All black and casual chic is the norm...

[Bux]

My boyfriend is not a great one for formal restaurants abroad - he doesn't feel he should wear a tie on his holidays! Are all French Michelins this formal?

I think the necktie thing has been asnwered successfully. It's a rare restaurant in France where you absolutely have to wear one, although there are still plenty where the clientele will largely be necktied. The question I want to ask is, "what do you mean by all French Michelins?" Is that meant to signify all restaurants listed in the guide, just the starred ones, or just the multistarred ones? There are over 4,000 restaurants listed in the last Michelin Guide to France. My guess is that shortsleeves and sweaters outnumber neckties and jackets at 98% of them.

[rozrapp]

When we were last in France in June 1999, we had a wonderful stay at Moulin de L'Abbaye, a Relais & Chateaux property in Brantome. Our accommodations were lovely, and the food was superb. Dinner was served on the outdoor terrace alongside the Dronne. We dressed casually.

[mingus]

LaRochelle is very pleasant, but even more delightful is the Ile de Re, which is connected to the mainland by a long bridge. The island is much favoured as a weekend getaway retreat for the French - unlike La Rochelle, we didn't encounter any non-French tourists - and seems to be blessed with lots of sunshine, beaches and quaint villages.

It is the perfect place for loafing, indulging in what the Italians call "dolce far niente" - the sweetness of doing nothing - with walking and bicycle paths galore and a democratic cross-section of French society wandering around aimlessly, enjoying the pleasures of idleness. For an Atlantic resort it has an oddly Mediterranean feel, except there's not a poodle to be seen.

There are at least two villages rated among the most beautiful in France (Ars en Re, St. Martin de Re?). We stayed in Ars en Re, in a charming hotel called Le Senechal, parked our car next to the famous church with the black roof that you see on all the postcards and took long walks along the water. There are at least two other hotels on the island which are also included in a book called "Hip Hotels: France", where I first learned about the place. All were quite affordable.

St Martin has a very atmospheric market in a medieval square in the heart of the town, busiest on Sunday morning. You can buy a bottle of the local Pineau de Charentes and have a sip as an aperitif every night before heading out for dinner when you get to the Dordogne. The langoustines and/or potatoes are famous enough, if I remember correctly, to have their own AOC. The seafood looked wrigglingly fresh.

As for the Dordogne, I would highly recommend a meal at Le Gindreau in St. Medard, about 20 minutes west of Cahors. Relaxed country dining in a renovated former schoolhouse overlooking the valley, warm, attentive service, refined and imaginative cooking with regional flavour, lovely wine list, exellent sommelier.

No ties required here.

We've also eaten at L'Aubergade in Puymirol, where Michel Trama works his magic, but, while the food was memorably wonderful, we had the distinct feeling that the experience would have been more relaxing if we had dressed up a little more for the occasion. This is a two star restaurant and a Relais et Chateaux, with commensurate expectations.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I always enjoy enchanging travel experiences with our Paris hotel's night deskman, who seems to travel rather nicely. Last summer (2003) he was tremendously enthusiastic about his and his wife's recent stay at Moulin de l' Abbaye. To date, some 10 years, his recommendations have been 100% on target.

[mingus]

I forgot to put in a plug for a very comfortable gite just north of Cahors, where we have stayed many times over the past 8 years and still have some wine stored in the cellar:

www.frenchconnections.co.uk/accom/719.html

[mingus]

Oops, Michel Trama's restaurant now has three stars, not two.

[oldschooltie]

I find the French to be inept dressers

compared to whom?

[Steve Martin]

I find the French to be inept dressers

compared to whom?

Compared to me, the Italians, the Spanish and my British compatriots, in that order.

I regard as inept, dressing for dinner as if you are going to watch, or even play, a tennis match.

I'm often the only man smarter than the waiters.

[Bux]

I find the French to be inept dressers

compared to whom?

Compared to me, the Italians, the Spanish and my British compatriots, in that order.

I regard as inept, dressing for dinner as if you are going to watch, or even play, a tennis match.

This is all very subjective and standards here are quite culturally subjective. The standards of dressing are subjective in terms of taste and propriety. Are we saying that the French wear clashing shirts and jackets, or that they don't wear a tie to dinner? I'm not sure, we here in America, understand that there's a proper tennis watching outfit and another suitable for dining under all circumstances. On the whole, we've abandoned the tie in a considerable number of circumstances. From what I can tell, so has everyone else. In any event, it's quite something to stereotype an entire nation.

[Steve Martin]

I find the French to be inept dressers

compared to whom?

Compared to me, the Italians, the Spanish and my British compatriots, in that order.

I regard as inept, dressing for dinner as if you are going to watch, or even play, a tennis match.

This is all very subjective and standards here are quite culturally subjective. The standards of dressing are subjective in terms of taste and propriety. Are we saying that the French wear clashing shirts and jackets, or that they don't wear a tie to dinner? I'm not sure, we here in America, understand that there's a proper tennis watching outfit and another suitable for dining under all circumstances. On the whole, we've abandoned the tie in a considerable number of circumstances. From what I can tell, so has everyone else. In any event, it's quite something to stereotype an entire nation.

You're right Bux, it is subjective. Though no more so than the "honesty" of food.

I don't mind slurring entire nations though; they don't notice and it is hardly 'quite something'.

There seems to be a certain perversity in paying to dine at a 'formal' (Michelin) restaurant and not rising to the occasion. We don't like to see scruffy waiters, so perhaps customers should consider how their appearance will affect the ambience for their fellow customers.

While there are many egulleters happy to set off flash guns in a restaurant, I suppose a tie is an insignificance.

Anyway, as the French often look as if they have dressed in the dark, a tie is one less thing to get wrong.

I hope I have reassured Mrs Woman that she has nothing to fear from the French in the sartorial department. A vivid pastel sweater draped over the shoulders of a striped shirt, with spectacles perched on top of his head, will see her boyfriend through any circumstance.

[Bux]

I don't mean to let this thread be hijacked, but you are correct that "honesty" in food is at least as subjective an issue.

I don't necessarily find other people's modes of dress to be perverse when they are less formal than mine, or even less formal than what I see as proper. My wife was more upset than I was at seeing jeans and matching denim outfits at Berasategui in the Pais Vasco, but the jeans were on a young Spaniard and the matching his and hers denim shirts and jeans were on a middle aged couple who might have been Dutch or Scandinavian. I don't have a good ear for accents. Come to think of it, I didn't see too many ties on either Spaniards or Frenchmen sitting near us in any of the starred restaurants in the region. Americans and South Americans seemed to favor shirtsleeves or jackets without ties as well. At Arpège in Paris the week before, everyone seemed to be wearing a tie and jacket except for one conservatively dressed man in a sport jacket without tie and one rather casually dressed t-shirted young man with his female companion. My wife thought they were dressed for the beach but I excused them as they were British. Indeed, I find it strange to see the French taken to task for not wearing ties, in a thread started by someone from the UK whose boyfriend objects to taking a tie abroad. I'm afraid my experiences don't exactly jive with yours. I find the French may often dress more casually than the British, but do so with greater panache and elegance.

What concerns me most is the reference to eGullet members setting off flash guns in fine restaurants. Has this been a problem for you? Have you experienced this in many restaurants? How do you recognize them?

[Steve Martin]

What concerns me most is the reference to eGullet members setting off flash guns in fine restaurants. Has this been a problem for you? Have you experienced this in many restaurants? How do you recognize them?

By their flashguns shall ye know them.

No, it was just a thread in another forum.

Although the original post concerned ties, my comments are not centered on them.

A denim tie, for instance, would be less than acceptable.

I think panache has been sold to us very well. There is now a circlular argument that to be French is to be elegant. They have convinced us that they invented it.

I won't be in France again until June, but I will take a photo of the tieless diners I see, with flash of course.

Alas, the British are almost as scruffy as the Dutch, but my point was we do generally dress up for an occasion. Class thing, no doubt.

I will be in Houston next week and Madrid after that. It will be a stark contrast. We find the Spanish do like to parade their wardobe, and why not.

[Bux]

What concerns me most is the reference to eGullet members setting off flash guns in fine restaurants. Has this been a problem for you? Have you experienced this in many restaurants? How do you recognize them?

By their flashguns shall ye know them.

No, it was just a thread in another forum.

Most people who take photographs of their food, do it with a digital camera and from close up. Results are far better with ambient light than with flash. I don't think most eGullet diners take people pictures in restaurants. I doubt that many eGullet members use a flash in a restaurant. It's possible that some people find the taking of pictures, even without flash, to be offensive, but you mentioned flash guns and thus I wondered about them. I haven't seen a thread where members talk about setting off flash of any kind in a restaurant, but it's a very big site and I can't see it all.

[Mrs Woman]

I hope I have reassured Mrs Woman that she has nothing to fear from the French in the sartorial department. A vivid pastel sweater draped over the shoulders of a striped shirt, with spectacles perched on top of his head, will see her boyfriend through any circumstance.

at Steve - I'll let my boyfriend know what he should pack then

We've managed to secure a gite a few minutes walk from Montignac, which I hear is not too far from Sarlat. So if anyone has any receommendations for this specicifc area, I would be most appreciative.

[John Whiting]

Moulin de L'Abbaye

One of our favorites.

[cigalechanta]

Coutanceau's son has a great place on the port, called "Les Flots

"The grilled lobster is fabulous. Something not done well or often her in New England.

Another fan of the Moulin De L'Abbaye here.

Edited March 6, 2004 by cigalechanta (log)