FOIE GRAS TO BE ILLEGAL IN SONOMA?

[rdailey]

Ironically, if the law passes, I will still be able to buy a dead goose and eat it.

Well, at least you'd be eating a whole goose, not a harvested body part. And do you suppose those liverless ducks and geese are schmoozing at the water cooler, swapping war stories about their "operations"?

I think you missed my attempt at irony. You do realize the geese are not raised solely for the "harvest" of their livers? The rest of the bird is eaten as well and that was my point.

The geese are going to be slaughtered despite the law. I will never understand why animal rights activists need to protect geese from the feeding practices when they will be slaughtered anyway.

Life would conitnue without foie gras. My real issues are with the inane politicians that use an issue like this to pander to the animal rights groups and the fact that very few seem to really care. It appears to me that some people are more concerned about farm animals in Sonoma, that are treated about 100 times better than your average chicken, than with Sacramento telling us what we can eat.

[carp]

The proposed bill, which just made it through committee, would ban the sale and production in CA and would take effect in 2011. There is only one company currently producing foie gras in CA and the lawmakers are giving them until 2011 to "adapt."

What's the status of legislation in NY? I heard they are also planning to stamp out foie gras...

I am completely upset. Does anyone know how to shove vittles down one of these Daffy's gullets? I need to learn how to fatten these suckers up myself...

Edited April 28, 2004 by carp (log)

[petite tête de chou]

Im not sure what to think about this article. Is it all lies? Some truths?

Anyone have any thoughts on it?

http://www.animal-lib.org.au/lists/foiegras/foiegras.shtml

[miahoyhoy]

No, that report is not all true.

I'll try to find the official report from europe(can't beleive I didn't bookmark it). Ducks are fed 2 times a day, for 2 to 3 weeks. there are a few other discrepencies. Like I said I'll find the report and post it for you.

I like the reference earlier to the tyson chickens. Now that truely is cruel!

[miahoyhoy]

Here it is!!!

http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/scah/out17_en.pdf

You'll need acrobat reader to view it I think.

[mktye]

The proposed bill, which just made it through committee, would ban the sale and production in CA and would take effect in 2011. There is only one company currently producing foie gras in CA and the lawmakers are giving them until 2011 to "adapt."

And what would happen if that "adaptation" is using ducks which have been genetically modified to be fat without the force feeding? Not out of the realm of possibility. It would certainly negate much of the "cruelty" aspect of the current argument.

However, I suspect it would still be an issue, but to a different group of people.

"Sonoma County May Be A Target For Bio-Crop Ban"

I love my native state of California!

[raisab]

Well, at least you'd be eating a whole goose, not a harvested body part.  And do you suppose those liverless ducks and geese are schmoozing at the water cooler, swapping war stories about their "operations"?

Those nice juicy big duck breasts that you eat, guess what duck provides a good percentage of them? Yep, those poor little critters being force fed! I think we should ban duck breasts also, what do you say?

While we're at it let's ban honey, those poor bees must get depressed when we take it, and chicken eggs imagine the hen's depression, how cruel is that?

Let's ban chickens because of the inhumane treatment, can anyone else think of anything else.

Personally I think those who oppose Foie Gras must of had a traumatic experience earlier in life and are not able to bond with humans hence they bond with ducks.

Edited April 28, 2004 by raisab (log)

[Dignan]

I'm not versed on the California legislative process, but if I may presume as a stopgap that it mirrors the federal process, perhaps this is silly enough that Governor Schwarzenegger might exercise his veto powers.

[Wolfert]

Chef, Mary Dumont, at Sonoma Saveurs, told me the newspaper reports are not quite reporting the whole story: seems the state of Califoernia will spend 5 years finding some other "humane way" to fatten the livers of ducks while the raising and sale of foie gras continues. Hurrah for freedom of choice.

"

[Gary Soup]

Chef, Mary Dumont, at Sonoma Saveurs, told me  the newspaper reports are not quite reporting the whole story: seems the state of Califoernia will spend 5 years finding some other "humane way" to fatten the livers of ducks while the raising and sale of foie gras continues. Hurrah for freedom of choice.

"

I believe I read 7 years, out of consideration for the one 25-man enterprise that produces foie gras in California. I think that's more time than the State gives GM to reduce pollution. Incidentally, the foie gras operation is near Stockton, a fur piece from Sonoma.

Edited April 29, 2004 by Gary Soup (log)

[winesonoma]

Chef, Mary Dumont, at Sonoma Saveurs, told me  the newspaper reports are not quite reporting the whole story: seems the state of Califoernia will spend 5 years finding some other "humane way" to fatten the livers of ducks while the raising and sale of foie gras continues. Hurrah for freedom of choice.

"

I believe I read 7 years, out of consideration for the one 25-man enterprise that produces foie gras in California. I think that's more time than the State gives GM to reduce pollution. Incidentally, the foie gras operation is near Stockton, a fur piece from Sonoma.

There's no dam POLLUTION these people are trying to put My friends out of business because they produce a legitimate food product that was invented by the egyptians. They have singled out the smallest poultry producer in the US.

[Gary Soup]

There's no dam POLLUTION these people are trying to put My friends out of business because they produce a legitimate food product that was invented by the egyptians. They have singled out the smallest poultry producer in the US.

OK, so there's no pollution from the automoblie and there's no cruelty to geese and ducks from foie gras producers.

Considering that the EU has given France and Hungary a 15-year mandate to come up with more humane methods of producing foie gras or face a ban, your friends should feel fortunate if they're cut half as much slack.

[jschyun]

Bill to ban sale of foie gras approved.

[Exotic Mushroom]

An update. The bill is now through the Senate and has just passed the assembly committee. Assembly vote is next.

http://www.nofoiegras.org/FS_cabill.htm

[Gary Soup]

"Agribusiness organizations and Guillermo Gonzalez, the owner of California’s only foie gras production facility, initially opposed the bill. However, Gonzalez is now taking a neutral position as the bill was ammended to include a 7 1/2 year phase out period. Gonzalez, a multi-millionaire from a wealthy El Salvadorean family, works closely with Grimaud, an international corporation that promotes the inhumane foie gras industry around the world."

So much for the arguments about the ban putting small family farms out of business.

[Carolyn Tillie]

"Agribusiness organizations and Guillermo Gonzalez, the owner of California’s only foie gras production facility, initially opposed the bill. However, Gonzalez is now taking a neutral position as the bill was ammended to include a 7 1/2 year phase out period. Gonzalez, a multi-millionaire from a wealthy El Salvadorean family, works closely with Grimaud, an international corporation that promotes the inhumane foie gras industry around the world."

So much for the arguments about the ban putting small family farms out of business.

Gary, you don't indicate where your quote came from. I'm assuming it is one of the PETA-friendly places by the "inhumane" reference.

[Gary Soup]

Gary, you don't indicate where your quote came from. I'm assuming it is one of the PETA-friendly places by the "inhumane" reference.

It came from the link in Exotic Mushroom's post (three above this one). Are you disputing its factuality?

I'm no PETA fan (carnivore that I am) but "inhumane" seems fair to me.

[Exotic Mushroom]

The link I posted was from an anti-foie gras website. Unfortunately, the bill isn't getting much press (I have no idea why more people aren't upset about this), and that article did explain the current status of their bill. I do not support their agenda and I think their writing is biased, although I do not dispute their facts.

I choose that link because I thought the first paragraph was the best succint explanation of where the legislation is and has been that I could find.

This brings up a question that has been bothering me for some time though. Why aren't people more upset about this? Why won't anyone write about it? Am I the only person who thinks this is an important issue?

I'm no PETA fan (carnivore that I am) but "inhumane" seems fair to me.

Foie gras is far less inhumane than the Tyson chicken most people in this country eat for dinner every night! If you really care about animal rights you should start there. Foie gras is being targeted only because it is a luxury product. This entire law is based on emotionally-reactive misinformation!!!

[Carolyn Tillie]

Gary, you don't indicate where your quote came from. I'm assuming it is one of the PETA-friendly places by the "inhumane" reference.

It came from the link in Exotic Mushroom's post (three above this one). Are you disputing its factuality?

I'm no PETA fan (carnivore that I am) but "inhumane" seems fair to me.

I'm not disputing its factuality at all -- it is just that usually, when a quote appears, there are parenthesis above it indicating from whence it came. Since your's did not and I had not remembered reading the original link, I questioned its origin. That's all.

But I am in the camp that disagrees with you -- like others, I do not think that the practice is inhumane.

Exotic Mushroom, some people ARE doing things about it. I have been writing and calling my state representatives on a frequent basis (hence my earlier posting as such). I have also been doing what I can to support restaurants that continue to serve foie gras and I tell them so when I dine there. I also give Sonoma Saveur business two- to three-times a month (and am dining there tonight, as-a-matter-of-fact).

[rdailey]

The link I posted was from an anti-foie gras website. Unfortunately, the bill isn't getting much press (I have no idea why more people aren't upset about this), and that article did explain the current status of their bill. I do not support their agenda and I think their writing is biased, although I do not dispute their facts.

I choose that link because I thought the first paragraph was the best succint explanation of where the legislation is and has been that I could find.

This brings up a question that has been bothering me for some time though. Why aren't people more upset about this?  Why won't anyone write about it? Am I the only person who thinks this is an important issue?

I'm no PETA fan (carnivore that I am) but "inhumane" seems fair to me.

Foie gras is far less inhumane than the Tyson chicken most people in this country eat for dinner every night! If you really care about animal rights you should start there. Foie gras is being targeted only because it is a luxury product. This entire law is based on emotionally-reactive misinformation!!!

Hey Mushroom,

I wrote nearly the exact same thing further back on this thread. I can't believe that there aren't more people on eGullet upset by this legislation, but then again it is the California board. I even made the same comparison you did about Tyson chickens crammed into little cages. You could also say that pulling a fish from the ocean and letting it suffocate is cruel as well...no law about this...YET!

Most people see this law as a way to make a few geese a little more comfortable before they die - and who wouldn't want that...but at its roots it is really blatent pandering by John Burton to highly funded and committed animal rights terrorists. The same kooks who nearly destroyed Sonoma Foie Gras' small cafe in Sonoma a couple years ago. The same things were done to the fur industry.

The real question is, does it end here? What is next? Something tells me that the animal rights groups will not be satisfied.

PS - There are too many laws to count that are based on emotionally-reactive misinformation.

[edit for grammar]

Edited July 1, 2004 by rdailey (log)

[Ore]

Ciao,

I just had some Foie Gras cooked in the classic Friuli Venezia-Giulia fashion two days back (which was horrible because the Chef liked his foie well done!!)

I am really scared to see the consequences - I haven't seen HUDSON VALLEY FOIE GRAS mentioned in this post. Is this a USA bill or solely CA???

HVFG is Americas largest producer - near the CIA in Upper NY...owned by an Israeli guy!!

Another question - are they opposing force feeding, force feeding geese, force feeding duck, all of the above or some other topic??

The Chef from Northern Italy mentioned that when the geese would see the force feeder enter with her tool - they would all rush towards her - they couldn't wait to get nice and tasty for me!!! Also, he mentioned that if you force fed a goose for its appropriate number of days - lets say between 24 and 28 - and then stopped feeding it - within about 5 days it would purge itself and go back to being a normal goose!!

Dont know if the stories are true or not but they make sense!!!

Ciao,

Ore...lover of the foie!!

[Gary Soup]

Dont know if the stories are true or not but they make sense!!!

I guess they make sense to someone who wants to believe them.

Instead of hearsay, why not look at a careful and dispassionate investigation of the situation, from the document that was the basis for the EU's decision to impose a ban of foie gras in France.....

Welfare Aspects of the Production of Foie Gras in Ducks and Geese

[pia]

When I read such things, about prohibition, I'm very happy of being Italian.

By the way, a friend of mine who was breeding geese for foie-gras production, confirmed that they rush towards the feeder and stay there without being forced to, until feeding is completed.

I agree that life is much worst for chickens stucked in small cages ... but nobody seems to care about them ... since their meat is sold for cheap prices and has no taste nor texture.

We are losing contact with nature ... and forget that nature is not fair ...

[dccd]

My measley two cents...

I must agree with Mushroom and RDailey

I have been to Hudson Valley Foie Gras and also to the Tyson Chicken Factory. I don't think anyone who has had the opportunity to see both factories would ever eat chicken (and definitely not from a a company like Tyson's, anyways) again. Egg laying hens stacked 10 high in a building that can house 22,000 chickens. On any given day, one of these factories will slaughter up to 300,000 chickens.

I completely understand that no one is opening these chickens' mouths and forcing them to eat, but which do you find more cruel? I have seen the tretament of geese at HVFG during feeding time. I have my answer.

The point that I want to add is this:

The ducks (geese) ARE being over fed by a means which may not be agreeable to some, but 1) where is the compassion for the other animals and 2) If these ducks (geese) were not being used for foie, what would they be used for?

"According to the USDA, Americans consume about .34 (1/3 pound of duck per person yearly, down from .44 pound in 1986). Consumption of goose is less. "

(Ag Marketing Resource Center, Iowa State University. October 2003)

This 1/3 of a pound yearly, INCLUDING specialties like foie ... What was the production output at the Sonoma plant again?

Maybe I am not seeing the big picture - maybe the enclosures of chickens is more "humane" or the treatment of pigs and cows at an IBP plant is more "humane" (only seen video of that) or the use of chemicals to enhance vegetable output is more "humane" ... I don't know ... Maybe someone will enlighten me soon ...

D

[Gary Soup]

Maybe I am not seeing the big picture - maybe the enclosures of chickens is more "humane" or the treatment of pigs and cows at an IBP plant is more "humane" (only seen video of that) or the use of chemicals to enhance vegetable output is more "humane" ... I don't know ... Maybe someone will enlighten me soon ...

I think what ruffles feathers (so to speak) is not a matter of habitat, which is scandalous throughout the meat production industry, but the deliberate inducement of a pathological condition in the fowls.