Barney Greengrass

[Beachfan]

Hard to believe, but I've never been in all my years growing up in NYC and all my years back for culinary excursions and lost weekends.

I love smoked fish.  I have a spot open for Sunday brunch.  I'd rather do something like this than a big brunch.  Is it worth the shlep from midtown to face the lines?  Should I get the sturgeon?  Normally, I get my sturgeon fix at Balducci's downtown.

[Fat Guy]

You sort of have to go. Weekend brunch isn't the ideal time to visit any restaurant, on account of the crowds and such, but still you may as well grab the opportunity. The smoked fish at Barney Greengrass is superb, and everything else is pretty good too. I don't particularly enjoy eating there, and I'd rather get most anything to go (in fact I did acquire three kinds of fish there about four days ago), but my point if it isn't clear already is that it's an institution and you should go.

There is better smoked salmon out there in the world, but the sturgeon and sable are about as good as those products get. If you're dining there, the omelettes are also nice.

[jaybee]

Beachfan, you should go, but for a weekday lunch if you can, Sunday if that's your only choice.  I eat lunch at BGs at least once a week.  The not to be missed nova/eggs/onions plate is delicious and a signature dish.  The sturgeon is very good.  So is their sable. They have very good cheese blinzes.  If you are with company, a platter is the best way to go:  sturgeon, nova, sable would be my choices.  The whitefish is variable.  Pickled herring is OK but not great.  The cold borscht with sour cream is very good as a beverage. Good chopped liver. Their corned beef sandwich is among the best I've had.  Ditto the chicken soup with matzo balls.  Order appetizer plate instead of a sandwich and make your own. Nova and sturgeon (3 slices each) come with tomato, onion, pickle, cream cheese, butter and a bagel of choice.  Fresh squeezed orange juice is very good.  The place is a zoo on weekends, so get there early or resolve to wait a long time in a milling crowd that will spill out to the street. If you are alone and don't mind a squeeze, you can get a place at the small counter in the front room (BGs version of a sushi bar) usually a lot faster than a table. It's no day at the beach but can be a real experience. I love to people watch there, especially the midwestern tourists who haven't a clue. Also note that no credit cards are acccepted on weekends.  Cash only.

[Simon Majumdar]

Barney's is one of the places that I always go to when I am in NY.  The food is fine, but it is so different to anything I experience in London, I just love it

What I want to know is that both Barney and Murray on Broadway, claim to be the "Sturgeon King"  So what gives?  Did I miss out on the Great Sturgeon Wars of 1920 in history class? did they ever come to blows?  And, who does everyone else consider to be the Sturgeon King?

[Steve Plotnicki]

Beachfan-One of the best meals in NYC. Weekends are okay if you go before 9:00am. After that you will have about a 15 minute wait until about 10:00am when the wait will become an entire turn of the restaurant which is about 45 minutes. As reported earlier, the Lox, Eggs and Onions are the house specialty. It's the way they pre-saute the eggs that does it. But the smoked fish sandwiches and platters and about as good as it gets. In fact, not much bad there. I personally prefer to eat there rather than take out. When I take out, I go to Murray's.

[Fat Guy]

I certainly think Murray's is better. When we chose a caterer for my sister's wedding, we chose Murray's over Barney Greengrass by universal family opinion. But in the public eye, Barney Greengrass is probably more widely acknowledged as king.

I've got to reiterate, though, that I don't think the Greengrass smoked salmon is all that. It tastes rather commercial to me.

[jaybee]

Simon,  for my money, the smoked fish at Murray's beats any I've had in NY and perhaps anywhere.  Their pickled herring is the tops.  But they are take out only.  Here's a tip.  You can phone in an order to Murray's and pick it up without waiting at the counter on busy weekends.  Barney Greengrass is more than the food.  The whole experience, the place, the customers, the staff make it a unique place to eat. Gary, who has run it for several years is my next door neighbor.  He's a very lovely man and totally dedicated to the place.  But I really miss "Shirl" and "Moe".  The wallpaper in the dining room is something else! And the Nova/eggs/onions dish is one of my favorite things to eat in the world.  They caramelize the onions in chicken fat long beforehand, then combine with the nova and eggs.  uuhhhhmmmmnnn (Homer Simpson sound). :)

[jordan]

I'm 100% with Fat Guy on this; Go, if for nothing else the institutional factor.  The chopped liver is pretty good too.

[Beachfan]

My mouth is watering!  It may be the one thing to get me up early on a Sunday in NYC!

Since the thread has tastily expanded into takeout, can someone opine on Murray's vs. my downtown benchmarks: Balducci's (smoked salmon) and Russ and daughters (usually whitefish)?

[Fat Guy]

Russ & Daughters is better than Balducci's in my opinion, and I think Murray's and Russ & Daughters are roughly on par. That's not based on any sort of controlled, same-day comparison, though.

When you get into smoked salmon, there are a lot of variables. The styles are different as well as the underlying fish. I mean, pretty much my favorite smoked salmon is the stuff Daniel Boulud sells, and also what you get at Petrossian, but that's very French and salmony. It's not the more robust, saltier style you find at the appetizing-type places. And even there, you get a lot of different stylistic choices.

[Beachfan]

Oh my, how could I forget Tsar cut smoked salmon at Petrossian's?  The only time I saw by brother's knees buckle from food ecstasy (I guess because he's sitting while he eats most of the other time).

Definitely my favorite, beyond doubt.  But I was thinking of non royalty foods.

[jaybee]

Beachfan, I have limited experience with your downtown benchmarks, (I know Balducci's meats and cheese and they are usually great) but I will say in over 25 years of steady patronage that I have never found Murray's to be less than superb in taste, texture and quality of slicing for smoked salmon, sturgeon, whitefish, pickled herring in cream sauce, or sable.  I have never had better smoked salmon, except for some smoked Norwegian wild salmon that I bought at Petrossian. I also think Murray's sell a better bagel than BGs.  Murray's tuna and whitefish salads are very tasty and they serve a vegetarian "chopped liver" that my daughter (a non-meat eater) loves.

[jaybee]

Bourdain mentions BGs for nova eggs and onions. A unique classic.  I agree with Bourdain "The gold standard for egg dishes."  Fat Guy gives the place a real thumbs down.  I eat there at least three times a month.  I'd cry if the place closed.  The chicken soup with matzo balls is great, their corned beef sandwich is delicious, chopped liver is excellent, nova, sable and sturgeon are usually excellent quality, the cheese blintzes are very good, orange juice is always fresh, creamy borscht is also classic. Only the white fish, in my experience, is variable. Just avoid the place on Saturday and Sunday brunch-time, it is a zoo.  What's your take on BGs?  So what gives, Fat Guy?

[Steve Plotnicki]

I just read Fat Guy's review and it makes no sense to me. I always thought they served meat and your review supports thats. But FG says "Though Barney Greengrass sells excellent smoked fish and produces some decent omelets, it's hard to imagine this place would get any business were it not for its no-longer-deserved reputation." Well all people really go there for is smoked fish and omelets (at least besides you Jaybee.) And their Nova and eggs is one of the cities signature egg dish. In fact overall, Greengrass is probably the single best breakfast in the city (in a city with poor breakfast choices IMHO.)

[macrosan]

This place gets the Macrosan Thumbs Up symbol (look for it in all their advertizing from now on).

This was meant to be a quick lunch with an old friend, but it turned into a slow lunch with an old friend instead Of course he guided me to their signature dish, the egg and onion and nova. When this arrived, I thought they'd got it wrong, because I was expecting the UK style of this dish, which is chopped hard-boiled egg and onion, with chopped salmon, served cold. But the Greengrass dish is onion and salmon cooked into an omelette served warm. But indeed this is a terrific dish. Well prepared, tasty and balanced, I could make this my regular breakfast dish from now on.

We also had a "three fish platter" which consisted of smoked salmon, sturgeon and sable (the last instead of the standard whitefish) served with pickled cucumber, big round slices of onion and beefsteak tomato, and toasted bagels. The salmon was excellent, although I found the smoking lighter than my preference. I had never eaten either sturgeon or sable before, and I found both of them fascinating. The fish was cut into fairly thin slices, and the flesh just fell apart when I picked up a slice. Again, the smoking was very light in both cases, although this suited the two fish better than the salmon (which I think benefits from a strong wood smoke). I found the sturgeon fairly innocuous -- nice texture, and very pleasant, but not a show-stopper. The sable was excellent with a distinctive and pleasing flavor.

We had arrived at a little after 12 o'clock, and by about 1.30 the place was packed. There was a moment when I thought we were getting the hurry-up signals from our waiter, but my companion is made of sterner stuff than that and totally ignored (or maybe he didn't recognize) the signals. Anyway, he's a regular who the boss, Gary Greengrass, calls by his first name, so we sat there till 3 o'clock just drinking water for the last forty five minutes I can't even remember exactly what it cost, but I think it was about $30 a head all included.

Maybe it ewas nostalgia. This sort of food has all but disappeared from London since the East End kosher eateries closed down. But I thoroughly enjoyed the food and the no-nonsense ambience. Barney Greengrass is a great place not just for Jewish soul food, but also for unhurried conversation between friends. And that definitely gets it my Thumbs Up Award.

[Stone]

I once dated a young lady whose grandmother lived around the corner on 86th. (Owned half of the top floor of one of those nice buildings. Four bedrooms, two living rooms, dining room. Yup. Coulda been mine.)

Grandma refuses to eat at Barney Greengrass because he didn't close the store the day of his wife's funeral. Good enough for me. Sorry to spoil it for you all.

[Elissa]

the coffee isn't half bad. which is to say, strides and leaps better than starbucks'. and tho i love the joint, it's more for its vibe than its vittels

edit: where do i find FG's thumbs down?

Edited May 10, 2003 by lissome (log)

[robert brown]

We stick with the pickled lox, kippered salmon, Easter Nova Scotia, and the sturgeon; the last of which can be variable; but when it's not too oily, it is a true delicacy.. The fresh-squeezed OJ is the best around. Our first Sunday breakfast after being away is always there. Let's hope they never tear the building down. It is arguably one of New York's best restaurants and one of the few that symbolizes and puveys pure and unsullied New York cuisine at its best.

[bourdain]

The chopped liver is the Best.

[Simon Majumdar]

I have asked this question before, but both Murray and Barney claim to be the Sturgeon King

It is a small claim but vexes me.

Which one truly is the Nabob of the Sturgeon?

S

[Pat Goldberg]

Simon,

They are kings of different kingdoms. Barney's is a sit-down restaurant, with excellent sturgeon in its price-point.

Murray's is a purveyor of smoked fish that aims for the very best fish with prices that match.

When we want fish to eat at home or to send to our needy daughter in San Francisco, we head for Murray's. When we want nova and eggs (or a chopped liver sandwich for me), we head to Barney's.

So I guess they both should replace the definite article with "a".

Added after strolling by Murray's: I just passed Murray's. Nowhere could I find any reference on the outside of the shop to their kingly status. Unless there is something inside, I think this is a tempest in a pot of tea.

Edited May 10, 2003 by Pat Goldberg (log)

[VivreManger]

This is slightly off-topic, but builds on an issue that has surfaced repeatedly in the BG discussion: the quality of sturgeon. If there is interest, we can move it from NY and get Adam Balic involved.

Am I wrong, but has the taste of sturgeon declined over the past decades? Does the current farm-raised sturgeon -- which I believe now dominates the market ?? -- taste like dirty water when compared to the pure driven snows of yesteryear?

I used to love smoked sturgeon. It had a rich, full, fleshy taste. I would eagerly buy it at Murray's or Zabar's. I remember the fresh fish as well, a similar and even cleaner taste. I have not had fresh sturgeon in years and now whenever I bite into a piece of smoked sturgeon, even when it is freshly hand-sliced and moist, it reminds me of a dirty pond.

Does anybody with a good memory for taste over the decades recognize the problem? Or is this just my meshugas?

I recognize that there is a difference between wild and farm-raised fish, but in other varieties -- e.g. salmon, trout, striped bass -- I like both, though there clearly is a difference. Here, I don't like the new stuff. Does any one else share this taste?

Edited May 10, 2003 by VivreManger (log)

[alacarte]

I'm not a sturgeon fan myself, but I give Barney Greengrass a big thumbs-up on their smoked salmon and whitefish. Really lovely stuff, and excellent bagels too. Big chunks of tomato and red onion served on the side. Oh yeah.

I hate delis that offer limp, waxy salmon on stale bagels. Held together by cream cheese that resembles paste. Bleah. I'd rather eat an Egg McMuffin.

But I agree that the nostalgia factor is high here. Although the joint could use some sprucing up, I do love that they have the original fixtures from (I'm guessing) the 1940s.

[bushey]

I'm not a sturgeon fan, but I love the kippered salmon and the smoked sable at BG.

We were in Baltimore over the weekend and had breakfast both days at Greg's bagels. They feature probably two dozen varieties of smoked salmon. I tried the Norwegian, which I found too mild, and the Scottish which was great. My husband had the single-malt scotch smoked version (begins with T, multi-syllable Scottish name) and it was incredible.

[macrosan]

My husband had the single-malt scotch smoked version (begins with T,  multi-syllable Scottish name) and it was incredible.

Talisker ? Tobermory ?

Bushey, did someone kid your husband that the salmon was smoked in single malt whisky vapor ???? Shurely not Now if he was sipping the nectar alternately with mouthfuls of oak-smoked wild salmon, then that indeed could be my idea of heaven