Marindes for Bison

[Junior]

Howdy all, I am looking for some input on a marinde for a Bison Prime Rib. This may sound a little crazy but I am catering my own wedding which is on Sept 26th.

Our main course is this Prime Rib but I am not sure as how I would like to cook it. What I am thinking of doing is to marinate it for a day with veg or canola oil, fresh parlsey, thyme, rosemary, peppercorns, juniper berry, allspice, bay leaf, and garlic. I would also use carrots, onions, and celery. Maybe some mustard seed ? Cloves ? Cinnamon ?

As for cooking part, I was going to use a salt pepper crust, with juniper berry, garlic, rosemary and olive oil.

Any thoughts or advice.

[fresco]

Howdy all, I am looking for some input on a marinde for a Bison Prime Rib.  This may sound a little crazy but I am catering my own wedding which is on Sept 26th.

Our main course is this Prime Rib but I am not sure as how I would like to cook it.  What I am thinking of doing is to marinate it for a day with veg or canola oil, fresh parlsey, thyme, rosemary, peppercorns, juniper berry, allspice, bay leaf, and garlic.  I would also use carrots, onions, and celery.  Maybe some mustard seed ? Cloves ? Cinnamon ?

As for cooking part, I was going to use a salt pepper crust, with juniper berry, garlic, rosemary and olive oil. 

Any thoughts or advice.

Just out of curiosity, why would you marinate bison? Anything you could buy would likely be grain fed, or in any case, not gamey. Soaking it in vegetable or canola oil would not, IMHO, do much positive for the flavor.

Congratulations, by the way, and good luck with the catering. You are brave.

Notice you are from Saskatoon--I was in your part of the world a few days ago (the Alberta side of Lloydminster) for a family reunion at which we did a whole wild (but farm raised) boar. It was quite lean and the only seasonings we used were salt and the occasional application of beer. Texture and flavor were great.

Edited August 28, 2003 by fresco (log)

[Junior]

Too be honest with you I am not sure why I am set on marinating it. I thought it might give the Rib more flavour. I don't think i will use that much oil to totally soak the Rib in. Or could I use some of my ingredients in the roaster ?

Yes, I am brave but I have lots of help and I have my future wife's hotel kitchen to work out of. So it won't be all that bad. I have a huge detalied list as to what has to happen on the preceding days.

[fresco]

Preferences vary, of course, but my inclination would be to let the flavor of the meat shine through. Since you have a few weeks, have you thought about doing a couple of small bison roasts before then, one with marinade and one without, and deciding which you like best?

That region, BTW, seems to be one big extended game farm--bison, elk, wild boar and probably a whole bunch of stuff I've yet to discover.

[Toliver]

I am curious to hear what jinmyo will suggest...

Also, because it's a leaner meat, I wonder if the cut will dry out during normal prime rib roasting? I guess you could always blanket it in bacon to provide moisture...

Mmmm...bacon.

Personally, I'd 86 the marinade and use the spices as a rub.

[jsolomon]

whatever happened to a dry rub?

I wouldn't suggest the EVOO unless it is a very lean set of ribs. While bison is leaner, it isn't much leaner if it is grain fed. Calories is Calories and if you're in the black at the end of the day, you play the marble game.

Edited August 28, 2003 by jsolomon (log)

[fresco]

I am curious to hear what jinmyo will suggest...

Also, because it's a leaner meat, I wonder if the cut will dry out during normal prime rib roasting?  I guess you could always blanket it in bacon to provide moisture...

Mmmm...bacon.

Personally, I'd 86 the marinade and use the spices as a rub.

Rather than bacon, which would impart a quite strong taste, especially if smoked, an option is sheets of beef fat. And one more thing--cook at high heat (500F).

[jackal10]

I was going to say the opposite. First brown the outside and then cook at very low heat (65C/150F) for a long time, - 7 hours or until the internal temperatue is 55C/130F-60C/140F, depending how well done you like it. This has several advantages:

a) You will not eat a better, moister piece of meat.

b) It is much less sensitive to timing - weddings always run late

c) You can leave it unattended while you are busy doing other things, like kissing the bride.

d) You don't need standing time, with attendant health risks

e) The meat will be uniformly cooked

Use a digital themometer, preferably one you can leave the probe in the meat and read from outside the oven. That is the single biggest thing you can do to improve quality.

Edited August 28, 2003 by jackal10 (log)

[fresco]

I was going to say the opposite. First brown the outside and then  cook at very low heat (65C/150F) for a long time,  - 7 hours or until the internal temperatue is 55C/130F-60C/140F, depending how well done you like it.  This has several advantages:

a) You will not eat a better piece of meat.

b) It is much less sensitive to timing - weddings always run late

c) You can leave it unattended while you are busy doing other things, like getting married.

d) You don't need standing time, with attendant health risks

e) The meat will be uniformly cooked

Use a digital themometer, preferably one you can leave the probe in the meat and read from outside the oven.  That is the single biggest thing you can do to improve quality.

The timing thing is an excellent point. I've never done a bison roast, but did an enormous beef version of the same roast for a large group of people at high heat (a la Barbara Kafka) and it turned out well. Thermometer is a must.

Edited August 28, 2003 by fresco (log)

[Junior]

What I had in mind for a rub when I cook the Prime rib is a moist rub that I used when I cooked at a local steakhouse. We used the low temp/long hours when we cooked the rib. The only probelm we had was with the rib itself we got a varied sizes, so sometimes it was rarer than other times. I would be uncomfortable doing it with high heat, but I would be willing to try it out. I think I might try the idea with doing one of each and see what happens.

One big game region is true, elk and boar are regular features on menus here as are alot of different kinds of fresh water fish. Seafood is almost non existent out here. If we do get it, it's frozen and not nearly as good as what's on the coast.

As for the bacon/beef fat, for a roast beef sandwich we used to roast the beef in a pizza oven covered in beef fat. It turned out well. The butcher suggested that idea for the fat.

[Nick]

I'd go with what Jackal said. But, I'd add some fat to it as well.

[fifi]

All I can add is that every time I have tried high temperature roasting "a la Kafka" I have set off all of the smoke alarms within 10 miles. (Maybe that is an exageration, but not much.) The slow roast method looks like the way to go as it will not require constatnt attention.

All I can say is that Kafka must have one sucker of a vent hood.

[fresco]

All I can add is that every time I have tried high temperature roasting "a la Kafka" I have set off all of the smoke alarms within 10 miles. (Maybe that is an exageration, but not much.) The slow roast method looks like the way to go as it will not require constatnt attention.

All I can say is that Kafka must have one sucker of a vent hood.

Now that you mention it, think I kept kitchen door and a few windows open AND venting system revved up. Junior does have the advantage of a restaurant kitchen at his disposal. But you left out the important stuff: how did the roast turn out?

[fifi]

All I can add is that every time I have tried high temperature roasting "a la Kafka" I have set off all of the smoke alarms within 10 miles. (Maybe that is an exageration, but not much.) The slow roast method looks like the way to go as it will not require constatnt attention.

All I can say is that Kafka must have one sucker of a vent hood.

Now that you mention it, think I kept kitchen door and a few windows open AND venting system revved up. Junior does have the advantage of a restaurant kitchen at his disposal. But you left out the important stuff: how did the roast turn out?

Not all that good. And I am talking about more than one of Kafka's "recipes". The charring from the high heat in the bottom of the roasting pan (the same pan she recommends) gave an off flavor to the whole thing. After several tries, I have not cooked anything from that book since.

[fresco]

All I can add is that every time I have tried high temperature roasting "a la Kafka" I have set off all of the smoke alarms within 10 miles. (Maybe that is an exageration, but not much.) The slow roast method looks like the way to go as it will not require constatnt attention.

All I can say is that Kafka must have one sucker of a vent hood.

Now that you mention it, think I kept kitchen door and a few windows open AND venting system revved up. Junior does have the advantage of a restaurant kitchen at his disposal. But you left out the important stuff: how did the roast turn out?

Not all that good. And I am talking about more than one of Kafka's "recipes". The charring from the high heat in the bottom of the roasting pan (the same pan she recommends) gave an off flavor to the whole thing. After several tries, I have not cooked anything from that book since.

Placing the roast on the rib bones (assuming you had it boned and kept the bones) helps to prevent charring on the bottom, but sounds like you are off high heat roasting for good.

[fifi]

Yep... Until someone comes up with a way to keep the juices from charring in the bottom of the roasting pan. I did see a method in Cooks Illustrated for Chicken where they layered the bottom of the roasting pan with sliced potatos to take up the fat and keep it from charring. Maybe the potatos were acting as a sort of heat sink. They were trying to solve the same problem. I haven't tried that one yet but it sounds good. It is just that, to me, beef fat that is subjected to a high temperature takes on a funky taste.

[Dana]

I tried the high-heat method a few Christmas's ago. The middle was REALLY rare. I usually order med. rare, but this was still mooing. The low and slow turned out better for me.

Is bison too lean for a smoker? Prime rib cooked in the smoker is divine.

[jackal10]

Meat conducts heat *really* slowly - about 1 inch/hour even in a very hot oven.. If the object is to get it uniformly to about 55C/150F, its crazy putting it in a 500F oven, over cooking the outside, and then hoping that thermal inertia will cook the inside. The result is meat that is overcooked outside, dry with juices squeezed out, tough, and practically raw in the centre.

Much better to put it in an oven slightly above the desired temperature (second law of thermodynamics: heat flows from hotter to cooler), for a long time until the heat gets to the centre the meat and everything stabilises at the correct temperature. Since at no point do you overcook the meat, the irreversible fibre contraction does not squeeze out the juice or go tough.

Cooking it hot is confusing two processes that are better seperated: cooking the meat and browning the outside for that meaty taste. If they are seperated, you can control each better. To brown the outside (Maillard reaction) put the roasting tin on high heat on the stovetop, with a little fat or oil, and effectively fry it briefly - put the joint in, and when it starts to smoke, turn it to another side until its a nice colour all over. Alternatively 15 mins in a very hot oven. If you are in a restaurant kitchen its even easier with a blowtorch . You can do this before or after the long slow cooking, but its easier before. You could even do this the day before, providing you chill the meat quickly after.

Dry rub for flavour/colour and fat to lubricate, or even better lard or bard (inserting strips of fat or bacon into the meat with a larding needle). Good gravy made seperately from a demi-glace.

The purpose of a salt crust or huff paste crust is to allow the meat to be cooked cooler than the oven permitted in the old days. I would not use it now. Sealing the meat stews it, rather than roasts, and the salt crust makes it very salt. You will miss that roasted taste.

If you are feeding large numbers have you thought about the logistics of carving and getting it to table?

You may need to carve it, hold it warm, above the temperature bugs breeed, and then plate it. Hence the horrors of steam table beef at banquets.

In the UK health regulations state it must be served within 2 hours of being cooked.