Zucchini Flowers

[guajolote]

What makes these Italian? Shouldn't this be in cooking?

I like them stuffed with Queso Oaxaqueno, battered and deep fried, with a squeeze of lime and some hot sauce.

This is a most Italian dish.

But zuchinni are originally from Mexico. I bet the Aztecs, Mayans, etc. were eating zuchinni flowers before Columbus was even born .

I didn't even know that they eat stuffed blossoms in Italy, I've only had them in Mexico. They're also very good in a light soup made with chicken broth. I had some at Spring in Chicago last week that were stuffed with lobster and braised, yum,

[Craig Camp]

But zucchini are originally from Mexico. I bet the Aztecs, Mayans, etc. were eating zuchinni flowers before Columbus was even born .

Like Tomatoes it does not matter where there originally came from - what matters is what they did with it when they got it.

The Italians win the prize for both tomatoes and zucchini flowers. Nobody does it better.

[Priscilla]

I was thinking the same thing Guajolote aren't squash a New World veg? Also I first encountered them in Mexican/Southwestern American cookery.

Not to take away anything from Italian preparations, certainly.

[Craig Camp]

I was thinking the same thing Guajolote aren't squash a New World veg?

... yeah. A couple of centuries ago.

You will find no place on the planet with more diverse ways of cooking these flowers than in Italy.

[Adam Balic]

I was thinking the same thing Guajolote aren't squash a New World veg?  Also I first encountered them in Mexican/Southwestern American cookery.

Not to take away anything from Italian preparations, certainly.

Priscilla - I think (may have to look this up) that the new world summer and winter squash + Zucchini replaced old world gourds, so they may have cooked similar dishes pre-New World contact. Rather like how the New World beans added to/replaced the pre-existing bean cookery of the old world (Fava beans, black eyed beans/peas and chickpeas).

Whatever the case I thank God for zucchini flowers and wish that my window box had more then two zucchini plants in it!

[Priscilla]

Adam certainly this may well be so. I'd be very interested -- I've been living among wild gourds here in Southern California my whole life, and latterly assumed somebody did SOMEthing with them besides make miniature Jack-o-Lanterns as I did as a child. I defer without hesitation to your knowledge. And as I said, taking nothing, and meaning to take nothing, from Italian preparations.

However I see no benefit in deriding Mexican cuisine and its ancient foundations in an effort to boost others. To me it seems only good to cite such connections.

[Adam Balic]

Adam certainly this may well be so.  I'd be very interested -- I've been living among wild gourds here in Southern California my whole life, and latterly assumed somebody did SOMEthing with them besides make miniature Jack-o-Lanterns as I did as a child.  I defer without hesitation to your knowledge.  And as I said, taking nothing, and meaning to take nothing, from Italian preparations.

However I see no benefit in deriding Mexican cuisine and its ancient foundations in an effort to boost others.  To me it seems only good to cite such connections.

Quite correct. I would also suggest that the greatest variety of prepartions is actually more likely to be in the vegetables country/region of origin.

I said on the UK board that I would be interested in seeing more authentic Mexican foods on egullet.

Ex-pats can get a little enthusiastic sometimes. I think it is cute.

I defer without hesitation to your knowledge.

Excellent, my plan proceeds a pace.

[Craig Camp]

Quite correct. I would also suggest that the greatest variety of prepartions is actually more likely to be in the vegetables country/region of origin.

Why would you suggest that? Vegetables like tomatoes and zucchini have been in Italy long enough to no longer be considered foreign. Indeed they are both basic parts of Italian cuisine. I assure you Italians do not consider them to be foreign or exotic.

The point of origin is now meaningless after centuries of cultivation. They are just as much a part of Italian cuisine as Mexican.

And I mean to take nothing, and meaning to take nothing, from Mexican preparations.

[Elissa]

The Italians win the prize for both tomatoes and zucchini flowers. Nobody does it better.

Noting that your enthusiasm for your adopted home is sweet indeed CC, it does not seem to me neccesary to assert that Italy's zucchini fiori are 'better' than France's fleur de courgette. Weren't the squashes and their flowers embraced by all Med cuisines? Also, mint and walnut so far neglected from zook blooms

Edited August 12, 2003 by lissome (log)

[Craig Camp]

The Italians win the prize for both tomatoes and zucchini flowers. Nobody does it better.

Noting that your enthusiasm for your adopted home is sweet indeed CC, it does not seem to me neccesary to denigrate France's fleur de courgette in order to appreciate Italy's zucchini fiori. Also, mint, walnut and anchovy have been so far neglected from the stuffings....and while perhaps not all together, surely each lends its charms to stuffed zook blooms

I do not denigrate those wonderful dishes. I only suggest there is more diversity of preparation in Italy than elsewhere. You can be assured that each of those missing ingredients you mention are used somewhere in multiple combinations in Italy.

It is like the cheese argument. Certainly cheese is made everywhere, but all must defer to France (including Italy) for the shear diversity and number of fine cheeses made there.

[Adam Balic]

Quite correct. I would also suggest that the greatest variety of prepartions is actually more likely to be in the vegetables country/region of origin.

Why would you suggest that? Vegetables like tomatoes and zucchini have been in Italy long enough to no longer be considered foreign. Indeed they are both basic parts of Italian cuisine. I assure you Italians do not consider them to be foreign or exotic.

The point of origin is now meaningless after centuries of cultivation. They are just as much a part of Italian cuisine as Mexican.

And I mean to take nothing, and meaning to take nothing, from Mexican preparations.

Sucker!

I still maintain, however, that it is more lilely that there will be a greater use of a particular veg. at its point of origin. No always (eg. pasta for instance), but it is more likely. Given that in the case of the squash, it has been cultivated in central america for many thousands of years, there are many different types and they are used for different purposes. So I would guess that if anybody was to do a count there most likely would be more squash rescipes in central America then in Italy

Interesting to note exactly how prevalent tomato etc are in Italy as it wasn't that long ago that they were a rarity. The wide spread use of tomatos in sauce is less then a 150 years old (based on how little mention of them is made in cook books before this period, the earliest mention of them being eaten in Italy is from 1544, oldest sauce recipe was 1692 and this was a raw garnish). Much less then this period in the North. I imagine that the older generation in Piedmonte can remember when they were not that common in the cooking. I wonder if this has to do with canned tomatos and how good they can be?

Edited August 12, 2003 by Adam Balic (log)

[Adam Balic]

The Italians win the prize for both tomatoes and zucchini flowers. Nobody does it better.

Noting that your enthusiasm for your adopted home is sweet indeed CC, it does not seem to me neccesary to denigrate France's fleur de courgette in order to appreciate Italy's zucchini fiori. Also, mint, walnut and anchovy have been so far neglected from the stuffings....and while perhaps not all together, surely each lends its charms to stuffed zook blooms

I do not denigrate those wonderful dishes. I only suggest there is more diversity of preparation in Italy than elsewhere. You can be assured that each of those missing ingredients you mention are used somewhere in multiple combinations in Italy.

Well is this true? In this thread I have seen mention for fryed and stuffed zucchini flowers (so a variation on a single theme) and the ligurian torte. I could add to this in pasta sauce and possibly rissoto. So while there may be more diversity in stuffed zucchini blossoms, I can't seen a great deal of variation in preparation.

[Elissa]

So while there may be more diversity in stuffed zucchini blossoms, I can't seen a great deal of variation in preparation.

how do diversity and variation differ?

[Craig Camp]

Well is this true? In this thread I have seen mention for fryed and stuffed zucchini flowers (so a variation on a single theme) and the ligurian torte. I could add to this in pasta sauce and possibly rissoto. So while there may be more diversity in stuffed zucchini blossoms, I can't seen a great deal of variation in preparation.

I don't think we have reached the definitive stage on this thread yet. There may be some recipies not yet posted.

[Adam Balic]

So while there may be more diversity in stuffed zucchini blossoms, I can't seen a great deal of variation in preparation.

how do diversity and variation differ?

That would depend on context. So in my above line what I was saying was that Italy more then likely has the largest amount of stuffed zucchini flower recipes (Zucchini were bred in Italy after all and frying, with or without stuffing seems to be the most popular technique), but apart from frying/stuffing I haven't seen many other cooking techniques used for the flowers.

Soup for instance? Or as a stuffing in ravioli?

[Elissa]

in the Culinary Olymics

**Fleurs de courgettes are better than Zucchini Fiori: Go!**

do teams have to be national?

[Adam Balic]

Well is this true? In this thread I have seen mention for fryed and stuffed zucchini flowers (so a variation on a single theme) and the ligurian torte. I could add to this in pasta sauce and possibly rissoto. So while there may be more diversity in stuffed zucchini blossoms, I can't seen a great deal of variation in preparation.

I don't think we have reached the definitive stage on this thread yet. There may be some recipies not yet posted.

We should make bets? To be fair though I think that we should allow recipes for flowers of other members of the same species to be used.

[Adam Balic]

in the Culinary Olymics

**Fleurs de courgettes are better than Zucchini Fiori: Go!**

do teams have to be national?

The frenchies don't stand a chance I'm afraid. I think that Old World v New World is more competative.

[redwinegulper]

I think we need to have a cook-off to determine the best cooking techniques, stuffings etc. I would be more than happy to be one of the tasters.

[Elissa]

Soup for instance? Or as a stuffing in ravioli?

i'd like one floating on a soup as a water lily, or stuffed whole and in folded open ravioli, but can't see chopping them up.

doublestuff

Edited August 12, 2003 by lissome (log)

[Adam Balic]

but can't see chopping them up.

doublestuff

Why not? They have a fairly distinctive flavour.

[Elissa]

Let me suggest the following as a starter:

Take very fresh and firm whole Zucchini flowers, clean them and stuff them with a possibly big and fleshy (major fin de claires or blue point, belons turned out to be less suitable), fresh raw oyster, without damaging the flower. It has to remain firm and elastic, so that it closes up on the stuffing.

Then drop the stuffed flowers into very hot olive oil for a very short time (1 minute or so proves to be enough), and take them out when it is still firm.

Dry it very shortly and without squeezing, on linen or oven paper. As a result, the flowers should remain firm and crunchy, hot outside and with the Oyster still cold and living inside. It is a delighting contrast.

To take away the last exceeding fat of the oil, I serve them on a thin bed of boiled, finely smashed potatoes, shortly roasted with an anchovy and seasoned with Muscat and white pepper.

I use to serve like two flowers per person and garnish the plate with fresh onion herbs.

eGullet

[Bill Klapp]

lissome, way to keep Camp in line! I do have to buy into his diversity-of-preparation argument, though. Some wine producers in Italy pay more attention to the maturity of their zucchini blossoms than they do to the maturity of their grapes. (Lucky for us, the blossoms are gone earlier, so there is still time left to focus on wine.) However, I must dispute Mr. Camp's assertion about cheeses. Piemontese cheeses are similar in style to, and as good or better than, the best French cheeses (whether goat's, cow's or sheep's milk, whether blue, hard or triple-creme), but unlike their French counterparts, which are often produced in commercial quantities, promoted heavily and widely exported, the Piemontese cheeses are generally made in tiny quantities for local consumption only. On the other hand, Piemonte abuts France, and the whole area was part of the House of Savoy at one time, so maybe this is merely a distinction without a difference. (But Gorgonzola, whether dolce or naturale, is still a finer, more versatile cheese than Roquefort, which is, pure and simple, too damned salty to be great. On this point, I simply cannot compromise!)

[Adam Balic]

Another damn ex-pat!

[Bill Klapp]

It's a lifestyle thing, Adam. You got to do what you got to do...