The right definition for "Supertuscan"

[Loris]

" The group of Tuscan Vino da Tavola wines that have reached lofty heights in the wine world by concentrating on quality rather than tradition. The term "super Tuscan" was coined for any Tuscan red that fell outside the traditional blending laws, but came to describe the most expensive, most full-bodied wine a producer offered.

Supertuscans break all the rules of winemaking in Tuscany. For example, they use non-traditional, non-Italian varietals. "

Do you agree?

[Craig Camp]

" The group of Tuscan Vino da Tavola wines that have reached lofty heights in the wine world by concentrating on quality rather than tradition. The term "super Tuscan" was coined for any Tuscan red that fell outside the traditional blending laws, but came to describe the most expensive, most full-bodied wine a producer offered.

Supertuscans break all the rules of winemaking in Tuscany. For example, they use non-traditional, non-Italian varietals. "

Do you agree?

One more time...

The term super Tuscan has no legal or controlled meaning of any kind. It is a fantasy name that producers can use as they see fit.

1. concentrating on quality instead of tradition. This is absurd. There are traditional wines of the highest quality and modern wines calling themselves super Tuscans which are crap.

2. The fullest bodied wine the producer offered. Also absurd. Maybe the most oaky but not the most full bodied.

3. Most Expensive - Maybe, but often because the term is an opportunity to rip off the consumer.

4. Super Tuscans break all the rules of winemaking in Tuscany. You have to be kidding me. They changed the rules years ago. There are many wines that would qualify for Chianti Classico that the producer chooses to make a 'super Tuscan' so they can charge more money.

5. They use non-traditional Italian varietals. Bull. Montevertine Le Pergole Torte, one of the leaders in the super Tuscan revolution is and always was 100% sangiovese.

What rules could they possible break?

The whole super Tuscan thing became pointless as soon as they made it legal to use French varietals in the various DOCs. The term no longer means anything as it is used on wines of all types produced in all styles. It is only a marketing tool.

It may be worth noting that the words super and Tuscan are both English and not Italian.

Everyone listen: There is NO definition of Super Tuscan. It is a fantasy name with no controls or legal status.

[Jean Fisch]

Super-Tuscan = any wine finishing with aia?

More seriously, Super-Tuscan were describing the wines that back in the late 80's were made outside the DOC system. Basically Vino da Tavola. And that were priced above the DOC wines. They did indeed break with the traditional DOC wines wine-making hierarchy (basic, riserva) either by:

- being made in barrique without 3 years of oak aging (as foreseen often then by the DOC's)

- or, using grapes which were not allowed under the DOC.

In the mean time, IGT's have captured many Vino da Tavola wines, some lost sheeps went even back home to the DOC stable (cf. Fonterutoli or Brolio) for the Sangio wines, so, as Craig mentioned, the notion of super-tuscan has become much more vague (still: it remains a commercially very effective weapon - say super-tuscan, and your mind is set on a wine costing north of $35!).

In my head, Super-Tuscan has become a negative description that I associate with ultra-modern wine-making techniques:

- pre-fermentation cold maceration to ensure a good color (and / or prefermentation grape drying on mats)

- micro-oxygenation to highlight freshness

- roto-fermentors and maximize extracts and de-structure the tannins (guess where roto-fermentors where first used: in Madiran...)

- de-acidification to ensure drinkability when young (and high points with the juries!)

- Powdered tannins to give the wine a sense of length it does not have naturally.

Jean

[Andre]

Loved your answer Craig.

I simply hate the term myself. It is like taking the heart from the body and calling it super.

I see the wine makers in Puglia struggling to sell their primitivo and having to put zinfandel on the label. The addition os Cabernet, Merlot and Syrah to Nero D'Avola in Sicily in wines like Camastra and Cygnus by Tasca D'almerita, The new developments in the veneto area etc.

Bottom line: nothing tuscan about these "super"

[KatieLoeb]

Super-Tuscan = any wine finishing with aia? 

That's really funny! I think that's a definition a lot of people would agree with...

Back "in the day", as they say, when the "aia" wines were first introduced, I think there was some sense of innovation and envelope pushing that a few more forward thinking wine makers had to their credit as they circumvented the rigidity of the D.O.C. regulations and tried to do things in a more "Modern" manner, (as opposed to the time honored and etched in stone traditional wine making methods and geographically controlled varietals). Unfortunately over time, it has evolved into the marketing ploy that Craig described, and it's meaning, if there ever was one that bore any reflection on reality, has been totally lost in the shuffle.

The upside to this is that if you snoop around you can often find "second label Super Tuscans" at bargain prices for really delicious and interesting wines, that combine both the tradition the D.O.C. tries to preserve, and the modern winemaking techniques and innovations that the D.O.C. does not. One that I'm fond of is the Terre de Galatrona. It cost about $14.99 in PA last summer and was an awesome value for the quality at that price.

Hey Craig - if you happen to know a list of such "secondary" wines, do tell!

[Loris]

Super Tuscan reds such as Galatrona dominate the premium wine scene in Tuscany this year, as usual. These wines represent the creativity and energy of a new generation of winemakers in Italy. They are, for the most part, superior to any of the traditional wines of the region, such as Chianti Classico, Vino Nobile di Montepulciano and Brunello di Montalcino.

Link to full article

(Galatrona and Terre di Galatrona are two different wines from the same producer)

The term super Tuscan has no legal or controlled meaning of any kind. It is a fantasy name that producers can use as they see fit.

Yes I agree, you will never find "this is a supertuscan" printed on the label. I think that some producers try to define their wines as supertuscans also if they have a poor quality to improve sales, but I think that when every ring of the chain, (producer-importer-distributor-wineshop-consumer) agrees to that definition we need to consider that bottle as something 'special' that standard, even of high quality, DOC/DOCG wines can not offer.

The whole super Tuscan thing became pointless as soon as they made it legal to use French varietals in the various DOCs.

The % is always limited.

[Carema]

The other night I dined in a restaurant that listed Carmignano as a "super-Tuscan". There are arguments made that some sort of Cabernet S was growing there during the time of the Medicis. I have also read that the cabernet in Carmignano came from lafite in the 1970s. Never the less it seems as if the term Super Tuscan has morphed into meaning anything with Cab in the blend.

In an unrelated incident I had the displeasure of opening a bottle of Livio Sassetti's Fila De Seta 1996 (75% Sangiovese grosso, 25% cabernet Sauvignon aged in Allier barrique). I am a fan of the Sassetti Brunellos, both Livio and Angelo. Livio's Seta 1996 has died a brown fizzy death while his brother Angelo's Brunello from the same vintage has held up (albeit not a powerhouse but alive and delicious). And it was not an off bottle because we opened three. I do not know. That is just my three cents worth.

[Echezeaux]

I participated in a blind-tasting of Tuscan reds the other night; wines based on Sangiovese.

One person, at the start of the tasting, asked the host "Are these Super-Tuscans?"

To which he replied, "I don't know yet. But we will find out how Super they are in about an hour!"

As for the "Fili di Seta," I suppose those silk threads turned back into a sow's ear! I've often thought of the Sassetti wines not as "Pertimali" but often as "Purty Mali."

Many Italian barrique-aged wines are short-lived, though they often appear, in their youth, as though they have cellaring potential.

[Elissa]

In my head, Super-Tuscan has become a negative description that I associate with ultra-modern wine-making techniques:

- pre-fermentation cold maceration to ensure a good color (and / or prefermentation grape drying on mats)

- micro-oxygenation to highlight freshness

- roto-fermentors and maximize extracts and de-structure the tannins (guess where roto-fermentors where first used:  in Madiran...)

- de-acidification to ensure drinkability when young (and high points with the juries!)

- Powdered tannins to give the wine a sense of length it does not have naturally.

Does that mean that my beloved Tegolaia and Terrabianca and Le Pergole Torte are fake wine?

I thought that these and other 'super' blends were created because winemakers didn't want to be forced to add the red and white varietals (was it malavasia and verdicchio?) winemakers were supposed to put in Chianti and Chianti Classico blends.

Sometimes I find Chianti too acrid. It's been my sense that a dab of cab imparted structure and the room for sangiovese to unfold; that sangiovese in good SuperTuscans was a dancer a bit more agile on her toes. Have I been seduced by powdered tannins and de-acidification? Yes I'm aware that the Pergole is 100% Sangio, but I thought Super was what the Tuscan winemakers decided to call themselves after their refusal to have their blends mandated from above.

Edited August 3, 2003 by lissome (log)

[Craig Camp]

In my head, Super-Tuscan has become a negative description that I associate with ultra-modern wine-making techniques:

- pre-fermentation cold maceration to ensure a good color (and / or prefermentation grape drying on mats)

- micro-oxygenation to highlight freshness

- roto-fermentors and maximize extracts and de-structure the tannins (guess where roto-fermentors where first used:  in Madiran...)

- de-acidification to ensure drinkability when young (and high points with the juries!)

- Powdered tannins to give the wine a sense of length it does not have naturally.

Does that mean that my beloved Tegolaia and Terrabianca and Le Pergole Torte are fake wine?

I thought that these and other 'super' blends were created because winemakers didn't want to be forced to add the white grapes (was it malavasia and verdicchio?) as winemakers must to their Chianti and Chianti Classico blends. I liked that idea, because sometimes I find Chiantis too acrid. It's been my sense cabernet's structure gave the sangiovese a bit more room to unfold, open and develop; that sangiovese in good SuperTuscans had more body and character. Have I merely been seduced by powdered tannins and deacidification? And yes I'm aware that the Pergole is 100% Sangio: I thought Super was what the Tuscan winemakers decided to call themselves after their refusal to have their blends mandated from above.

Jean has hit the nail on the head for the majority of wines that wine writers like to call super Tuscan.

Terrabianca and Monte Vertine are decidedly different wines.

I love great Chianti Classico because it tastes like sangiovese. Chianti too acrid - maybe bad Chianti. The addition of white grapes (trebbiano and malvasia) was to add freshness and acidity. Cabernet can easily overwhelm the structured elegant flavors of sangiovese. It is like adding cabernet to pinot noir. It does not take long before it tastes more like cabernet than pinot.

The so called super blends were created for many reasons. The long dead requirement to add white grapes was a minor player that was anyway widely ignored by producers for years.

The names super Tuscan, like the words, are the creation of a wine writer. The only thing that matters is producer.

[Elissa]

This goes on and on like super Tuscan still MEANS something.

Jean has hit the nail on the head for the majority of wines that wine writers like to call super Tuscan.

Terrabianca and Monte Vertine are decidedly different wines.

And to think all this time I'd been dreaming of Italian superheroes flying around in grape capes

CC: what does 'decidedly different' mean? Surely it cannot only refer to these two wines?

Edited August 4, 2003 by lissome (log)

[KatieLoeb]

Loris:

Thank you for the link the the Spectator article! I will be printing out the paragraphs regarding the bargain high quality finds and taking it with me on my next wine shopping excursion.

Glad to see Isole et Olena still mentioned with the other powerhouse producers. I've always loved their wines, even before the 1997 Ceparello received props as "3rd best bottle of the decade" from Wine Spectator. Their "everyday" Chianti Classico was never a disappointment, and also a great value for such an incredibly elegant wine in the $20 range. I have ONE precious bottle of the '97 Ceparello in my wine rack and am saving it for some special Italian dinner at an as-yet-unnamed date. I can hardly wait!

And to think all this time i'd been dreaming of little Italian superheroes racing around in capes with grapes on them 

Lissome - that's WAY too funny...Are they all dark haired, moustached and hirsute as I imagine them?

[Jason Perlow]

Lissome - that's WAY too funny...Are they all dark haired, moustached and hirsute as I imagine them? 

Hopefully they don't look like Batali wearing tights.

[Craig Camp]

This goes on and on like super Tuscan still MEANS something.

Jean has hit the nail on the head for the majority of wines that wine writers like to call super Tuscan.

Terrabianca and Monte Vertine are decidedly different wines.

And to think all this time i'd been dreaming of little Italian superheroes racing around in capes with grapes on them

CC: what does 'decidedly different' mean? Surely it cannot only refer to these two wines?

The example of Terrabianca and Montevertine are a great highlight of the confusion here. Terrabianca is modern while Montevertine is - well Montevertine, a vision of what is possible with the traditional grapes of Tuscany.

lissome - You are right there are the superheros of your dreams runnning around in Tuscany. Only many of them don't call themselves super Tuscan, but Chianti Classico, the other Chiantis, Brunello, Vino Nobile and Scansano.

At least you have the right attitude - an open mind and a love of great sangiovese like Pergole Torte.

[Elissa]

Hopefully they don't look like Batali wearing tights.

Batali looks cute in tights

[Carema]

Some other things to consider: the majority of "DOC"s in Italy were regulated finally at about the same time MLK was assasinated. This hardly qualifies as tradition. I think this dicussion has grown beyond just Tuscany but perhaps IGTs in general. There would be no Kurni if in the Marches only DOC "tradition" was being heeded. Also DOC regulations had as much to do with fiscal concerns as well as quality (why perhaps Veneto and Emilia Romagna became the disco, high yielding whores of the 1970s). At one time the most coveted of Bordeaux were pink, Nebbiolo was sweet as hell and most wine was fortified with honey. Tradition is meant to be broken. Yes, at this time we are going through a particularly dismal moment, everything having a quantified score attached, and the leader of the pack being a man from Texas who prefers high amounts of glycerol and an aroma heavy in vanilla, blueberry and cassis. I think in the Veneto it has become essential to move beyond the IGT to make decent wine. Super Tuscan is a media term: the evolution of winemaking trudges forward.

[KatieLoeb]

Hopefully they don't look like Batali wearing tights.

Batali looks cute in tights

I'm not so sure I necessarily agree with this assessment- however, not having seen said chef in question in tights, I'll leave this up to others to decide...

I was imagining someone more along the lines of Andrea Boccelli, albeit a bit thinner and more statuesque, in the tights and grape cape. I'm thinking tall, dark and handsome as the basic description. Perhaps an Italian version of Antonio Banderas?? Now that might look seriously good in tights...or out of them!