Dashi

[budrichard]

Thanks all, pictures tomorrow.-Dick

[Hiroyuki]

According to this blog, per bag:

600 ml: Clear soup, chawanmushi, oden, nabe, etc.

400 ml: Udon, soba, nimono (simmered dish), etc.

?? ml: Somen, ohitashi (boiled vegetable), etc.

600?? ml: Miso soup

I have a similar product at home, which also says 600 ml per bag.

[budrichard]

Thank you very much!

I made a nabe last night with home made chicken stock and blended it with dashi made with the bags. The bags have salt unlike the high grade bonito flakes I use for Miso soup, so you have to be careful not to use too many for a bonito flavor. But since the chicken stock had no salt, it was a good match. Anyway, layered the bottom of the bowl with thin slices of Matsutake sliced with a new Nakiribocho AS Hocho from this maker http://www.shop.niimi.okayama.jp/kajiya/en/index_e.html .

Takeda comes to the Chicago Custom Knife show every year and brings what i order for me. I have four of his knives and the Aogami Super Steel is the sharpest i have. The prices are reasonable compared to a knife made in the Honyaki method.

My wife asked how i was able to slice the Matsutake so thin. The only way is to use a Japanese knife of this type, a Western blade will not slice this thin.-Dick

[torakris]

I have scoured the site as well and can't find any information. I did request some free samples of their products though!

If you could post a picture it would be great otherwise I am headed off to a supermarket in a couple hours and I could look for it there and report back.

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The samples I requested came in just 3 days!

Though I am just getting around to posting them now.....

These were some incredible samples, complete with recipes for each product. I have used almost all of it and am a very satisfied customer. Their tsuyu in particular was quite good.

[helenjp]

I see that the two on the center and right of your photo are "junsui dashi" which has sake but no salt or MSG in it. What were they like?

I like these teabag-style dashi products a lot.

[torakris]

I see that the two on the center and right of your photo are "junsui dashi" which has sake but no salt or MSG in it. What were they like?

I like these teabag-style dashi products a lot.

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They were really good, I highly recommend any of these products. Now to find them in the stores.

Helen, If you haven't already check the website and click on the free sample banner!

[helenjp]

click on the free sample banner

I guess so...I always feel as if I'm committing robbery!

I haven't seen them in stores, and in fact thought there were fewer "teabag" style dashi products on the shelves just recently. Maybe that will change as the weather gets cooler.

[torakris]

click on the free sample banner

I guess so...I always feel as if I'm committing robbery!

I haven't seen them in stores, and in fact thought there were fewer "teabag" style dashi products on the shelves just recently. Maybe that will change as the weather gets cooler.

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You are right, I think I have only seen one brand on the shelves recently, maybe it is a cold weather product..

I haven't seen these in the stores either but I haven't actively been searching them out. I am going to pay more attention and actually look for them. If I can't find them I am thinking of ordering from their website. depending on how much they are in the stores, the Choumiryo iroiro set for 1980yen (and free shipping) looks like a decent deal.

[prasantrin]

After clicking on the free sample banner, if I check the boxes next to the different products, does that mean I'm interested in them, or not interested? I couldn't really understand, so I just check them all....either they'll think I'm very greedy, or very stupid...

[torakris]

After clicking on the free sample banner, if I check the boxes next to the different products, does that mean I'm interested in them, or not interested?  I couldn't really understand, so I just check them all....either they'll think I'm very greedy, or very stupid...

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Check all the ones you are interested in. I checked everything!!

[jrcrunch]

im currently using ajinomoto hon-dashi bonito

for a cup of dashi (for this brand) is 1/4 tsp of granules enough?

thanks!!!

[Hiroyuki]

im currently using ajinomoto hon-dashi bonito

for a cup of dashi (for this brand) is 1/4 tsp of granules enough?

thanks!!!

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1 heaped teaspoonful of hon-dashi per 600 ml, so 1/4 tsp should be enough for one cup. (Do you mean 200 ml by "a cup" or about 250 ml?)

[jrcrunch]

1 heaped teaspoonful of hon-dashi per 600 ml, so 1/4 tsp should be enough for one cup.  (Do you mean 200 ml by "a cup" or about 250 ml?)

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checked my measuring cup earlier today and it says 240 ml for 1 cup. hmm 200ml is japanese right?

ps--thank you for all the response. im very happy and learning a lot here. hope i could contribute someday.

Edited March 23, 2009 by jrcrunch (log)

[Mikeydude]

Hey guys.... dunno if anyone out there is a Dashi (japanese soup base) expert, but I need some help.

I'm struggling to make Dashi, and it really doesn't help that I've never tasted what the real thing is supposed to taste like. Anyway, I use 30g Konbu and 30g of Bonito flakes in my recipe plus a little more (about 10g for secondary Dashi). Following instructions from japanese legend Tsuji I gently heat the konbu in about 1L water until soft without allowing water to boil (about 10 mins), then take it out. I then add a small cup of cold water and bring to boil. Just as it does I add my Bonito flakes and turn the fire off, allowing about 60 seconds for the flakes to start sinking to the bottom of sauce pan. I then drain to have my primary dashi. Secondary dashi is made by simmering those ingredients in 1.5L water until about a 1/3 has reduced before adding my extra 10g bonito flakes and turning off fire... again draining the soup after about 30-60 seconds.

My problem is... the secondary dashi tastes weaker than the primary... and I thought it was supposed to be the other way around ?! After all... primary is used for clear soups whilst secondary is for more rich soups / sauces ??? What am I doing wrong here? In terms of ingredients I only purchase good quality konbu and bonito flakes ... so i think it's more to do with technique. Anyone a master out there?

Thanks for the help.

[Hiroyuki]

I have the Tsuji book. It says on page 148: While primary dashi is best suited for clear soups by virtue of its fragrance, subtle taste, and clarity, secondary dashi does noble service as a basic seasoning-for thick soups, for noodle broths, as a cooking stock for vegetables, and in many other ways.

It is usually said in Japan that primary dashi is for clear soups while secondary dashi is for miso soups and nimono (simmered dishes). I have no idea what Tsuji meant by "thick soups".

Because 80-90% of the umami components of kombu and dried bonito are extracted into primary dashi, it is no wonder that secondary dashi contains much less umami components (thus, weaker) even if you add additional dried bonito.

[Mikeydude]

Thanks for the reply Hiroyuki!

Hmmm... what puzzles me though is that it states that if you boil the bonito/kombu for too long then you release a bitter taste. I presumed that this meant the flavour would be too overwhelming (?!). But they say all is not lost and you can just make secondary Dashi. Hmmm.. to me... secondary Dashi just tastes like a weaker version of primary. What do you think?

[Hiroyuki]

Thanks for the reply Hiroyuki!

Hmmm... what puzzles me though is that it states that if you boil the bonito/kombu for too long then you release a bitter taste. I presumed that this meant the flavour would be too overwhelming (?!)*1. But they say all is not lost *2 and you can just make secondary Dashi. Hmmm.. to me... secondary Dashi just tastes like a weaker version of primary. What do you think?

*1 No, that simply means that you want only umami components from kombu and bonito flakes. As I said elsewhere, traditional Japanese cuisine is a cuisine of subtraction, which means that you subtract (that is, extract) only umami components from ingredients (in the case of dashi making, for example) and subtract (that is, remove) bitter, harsh, and other unwanted components from ingredients (in the case of blanching vegetables, for example).

*2 Like you said, not all is lost, and that's why secondary dashi can be made from the leftover kombu and bonito flakes. Secondary dashi is weaker in that it contains less umami but can be said strong in that it contains other components.

[mkayahara]

In particular, I just read this blog post comparing different methods of making kombu dashi. The verdict: the best-flavoured dashi was made from 10 g/l of ma kombu, sealed in a vacuum bag and heated at 65C in an immersion circulator for 1 hour. I don't know what you're supposed to do if you don't have a chamber vacuum sealer or an immersion circulator.

Also, I recently read that the glutamic acid in kombu is best extracted in water that has less than 60 ppm of calcium. (I believe Hiroyuki mentioned this before, too, either here or on his blog.) We have very hard water where I live, and I've recently made dashi with both tap water and bottled, de-mineralized water. The dashi made with bottled water was markedly superior. I feel bad buying bottled water, but you can't argue with the results!

Edited January 20, 2010 by heidih
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[Moopheus]

If the kombu is sealed in a bag, how does it flavor the broth?

I've never bothered to measure how much kelp or bonito flakes I'm using--a couple of pieces of kombu, then a handful of flakes. This is what I make when I'm feeling lazy--I can't see making it more complicated.

[mkayahara]

If the kombu is sealed in a bag, how does it flavor the broth?

It's sealed in a bag along with the water it's intended to flavour.

[Moopheus]

Then what's the point of sealing it in the bag?

[Hiroyuki]

In particular, I just read this blog post comparing different methods of making kombu dashi. The verdict: the best-flavoured dashi was made from 10 g/l of ma kombu, sealed in a vacuum bag and heated at 65C in an immersion circulator for 1 hour. I don't know what you're supposed to do if you don't have a chamber vacuum sealer or an immersion circulator.

Also, I recently read that the glutamic acid in kombu is best extracted in water that has less than 60 ppm of calcium. (I believe Hiroyuki mentioned this before, too, either here or on his blog.) We have very hard water where I live, and I've recently made dashi with both tap water and bottled, de-mineralized water. The dashi made with bottled water was markedly superior. I feel bad buying bottled water, but you can't argue with the results!

Yes, soft water is essential.

Here's what Yoshihiro Murata wrote in KAISEKI on page 161:

Soft water is essential to making dashi. It is impossible to extract the glutamic acid from kombu with water that has a hardness of more than 60 parts-per-million of calcium carbonate. If your water is harder than this, the only option is to use softened water or soft bottled water.

This is one of the reasons why kombu is used for dashi in Kansai (Western Japan) and much less so in Kanto (Eastern Japan). The water in Kansai is softer than that in Kanto.

Edited January 20, 2010 by heidih
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[JasonTrue]

Regarding alternatives to an immersion circulator: my current preference is to prepare the kombu overnight in a Crock Pot style slow cooker, set to low. It takes only forethought, not much additional work. It was inspired by Hiroyuki's commentary on ryotei-like dashi a while back. It works really well. I wouldn't recommend longer than 24 hours, though; it did become bitter when I forgot about it for a couple of days after the initial use.

Before using the slow cooker, I sometimes soaked the kombu for several hours in cool water, and simmered gently on low for a while. The immersion circulator would certainly give you more control, but low-tech dashi have been doing the trick for hundreds of years.

Edited January 21, 2010 by JasonTrue (log)

[Chris Hennes]

Then what's the point of sealing it in the bag?

According to their testing, it tastes better. They don't know exactly why, perhaps something reacting with oxygen.

[Shamanjoe]

Carrots? Disgusting as dashi, could be okay for something else.

Never boil. A few bubbles at most.

For making osuimono or miso shiru I use great quantities of kombu and bonito and heat on low for a few hours. (I have time.) Crystal clear, deeply flavourful and subtle.

Then I freeze the kombu for use in a Chinese or Korean style soup.

When you make it this way, do you start with cold water and just put everything in, pop the lid on and let it go? This seems a wonderful way to do it, and if I'm making dashi, I always set aside plenty of time for it.