Two state reps battle PA law to ban French wine

[cinghiale]

Two state representatives from Philadelphia bring harsh light of day onto nasty Harrisburg politicking. One goes toe-to-toe with Bill O'Reilly and, amazingly, comes out on top.

French Rejection

[WHT]

This is starting to go too far!

[jhlurie]

Yes, yet another discussion about how much the French piss us off and what someone intends to "do" about it.

Things like tariffs can be legitimate protest actions at a national level (although such actions would be very misguided as a protest against France, since the winemakers are the people in that country who are most conservative, and thus were most likely in support of US action in the Iraq War).

When you start to get into areas like the one discussed in this article though, things get kind of gray. Outright bans are so silly that they would certainly get laughed off the floor of any Legislature, but this didn't seem like an outright ban either.

One thing I do understand (maybe not always agree with though...) are various government institutions who have switched over to purchasing American wines instead of French for functions where public funds are used. In that case, I can sort of see it as an action to use public funds only to support American businesses, and any tag added about it being a protest against the French could just be ugly window dressing But that's clearly not what's going on with these state stores.

I'd have to know more about the "state stores" in Pennsylvania before I comment more--who they sell to, whether or not they operate in an environment where they are expected to compete with private enterprise, how public monies are used or not used to run them, whether or not they are expected to make a profit, etc. . .

Are they expected to operate just like non-state run stores?

Mind you, I'm STILL going to think something like this is both ignorant and aimed at the wrong target (as well as unbecomingly vengeful) no matter what the answers are.

[tommy]

who votes for these guys?!? seems a little too intrusive to me. then again, i'm probably a libertarian.

[herbacidal]

One thing I do understand (maybe not always agree with though...) are various government institutions who have switched over to purchasing American wines instead of French for functions where public funds are used.  In that case, I can sort of see it as an action to use public funds only to support American businesses, and any tag added about it being a protest against the French could just be ugly window dressing  But that's clearly not what's going on with these state stores.

i agree about the opinions on govt institutions switching wine choices.

I'd have to know more about the "state stores" in Pennsylvania before I comment more--who they sell to, whether or not they operate in an environment where they are expected to compete with private enterprise, how public monies are used or not used to run them, whether or not they are expected to make a profit, etc. .

they sell to anyone who needs alcohol in PA: consumers, "the trade", etc.

they do not compete with anyone, it is a monopoly. beer

there's an underlying principle within PA government about government not competing with businesses.

that doesn't mean consumers don't go outside the state to purchase alcohol. stores that are located just across the border in NJ, DE and I imagine OH and NY do pretty good volume in PA residents. in fact, oftentimes, their prices are often higher than those of stores just a few miles farther into that paricular state.

[hollywood]

This is like someone buying an American car when half of it is made of parts from around the world. Some French wineries/shippers, I'm told, are owned in whole or in part by American Corps. or multinational corps, or (perish the thought) by Texans! It's kinda like picking up a Bible and declaring "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me." Of course, if it turns out Saddam Hussein owns part of a winery, look out.

[jhlurie]

If the state stores are a replacement for private enterprise, then not selling a full selection of products is dead wrong.

If they were in competition with private enterprise than it would be more complex. It could be argued that if alternatives exist than the proposed ban means nothing--you can go across the street. Then the "wrongness" would center around how public money was used to support these stores and whether or not they had a responsibility to show a profit and be competitive so as to not waste public funds.

EDIT - and hollywood, in addition to your point about the limits of American ignorance, as I noted before... why are we trying to punish the people in France who were closest to our position? 100% of the country was NOT united against our policies, and the conservative elements (and nobody is more conservative than the winemakers from what I've always heard) were the "opposition"--at a very minimum the "enemy of our enemy", if not friends, if you want to put it in those terms.

Edited May 16, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[cinghiale]

I'd have to know more about the "state stores" in Pennsylvania before I comment more--who they sell to, whether or not they operate in an environment where they are expected to compete with private enterprise, how public monies are used or not used to run them, whether or not they are expected to make a profit, etc. . . 

Just to give you a bit of insight, I pass on a column from the Local section of Tuesday's Philadelphia Inquirer, PA Liquor Rules Cross the Line. It cracked up my wife over morning coffee, since we rent a car every 6 weeks or so and head over to South Jersey to load up on liquor at Canal's and wine at Moore Brothers. She always breathes a sigh of relief when we hit the PA side of the Ben Franklin Bridge and round the the curve heading south on 6th Street. I've told her to no avail that while years ago LCB (I think) undercovers would lurk in NJ liquor store parking lots and nab buyers when they tried to cross the bridge, today this is pretty much no longer the case. Being German, she still shudders and says to herself, "Schmuggler". But at the fines listed in the column, I'd be in for a hefty penalty. I usually get at least 3 cases of wine, maybe 10 bottles of liquor, and a case of beer. A stop would hypothetically land me a fine of $1,390 (along with forfeiture of my purchases). Talk about policing a monopoly...

Edited May 16, 2003 by cinghiale (log)

[jhlurie]

Pennsylvania... home of "the brave", if not "the free".

[beans]

Methinks this reason to seek residency in another state.... Uugh.

[hollywood]

I wonder how Paris [sic] Las Vegas is faring amid the antiFrench nonsense.

[Rail Paul]

Pennsylvania's LCB police used to be very vigilant in patrolling out of state liquor store lots. In one celebrated incident, two LCB guys were arrested for loitering by local MD police. They'd radio the plate numbers and car descriptions, PA state police would set up roadblocks and sort them out at the state line. MD merchants complained.

In the early 1970s, the (MD/PA) difference was $5 a bottle for Jack Daniels. The DC dif was 7. We'd often go down to Hancock MD in somebody's OH or NJ car and bring back cases of booze for resale. Enough to keep us in clover and weed for a week or two

Curiously, I was at the JR Cigarette place in Wilson NC last week and saw a guy with Ohio tags loading 40 cases (12 cartons to a case, IIRC) into his trailer. Based on NJ prices of $45 a carton and NC's $20, he had a spread of $12,000 less expenses in his favor.

[joler]

Based on NJ prices of $45 a carton and NC's $20, he had a spread of $12,000 less expenses in his favor.

All that and emphesyma too! Whoohoo!