Dim Sum GoGo

[Toby]

I ate a delicious meal at Dim Sum GoGo in Chinatown last night. We started with a few dumplings -- steamed duck dumplings, steamed bean curd skin stuffed with pork and vegetables. and turnip cakes, plus a different preparation of fried bean curd skin stuffed with mushrooms, cabbage, and carrots (this last from the appetizer, rather than the dim sum, menu). I'd never ordered the turnip cakes there before; they were light and fluffy and not greasy.

We ordered three main courses -- beef with preserved young ginger, rice noodles with conch and squid (I think it was squid??), snow peas and some mushrooms, and shrimp with fresh soy beans and Chinese bacon. The rice noodles came in a clay pot casserole dish, were served nice and hot; what was great about the dish was that the squid (?) was cut to the same dimensions as the rice noodles and was about the same color, so that each mouthful was a surprise. The shrimp was wonderful -- great contrasts in texture, flavor and color between the three main ingredients.

The portions were huge; three people barely managed to finish all the food. We were served small portions of an egg custard dessert in tiny earthenware bowls and we polished those off as well.

This was the most successful meal I've eaten at DSGG, possibly because everything we ordered had already been sampled on previous visits by one or the other of us.

[cabrales]

young ginger

Toby -- Thanks for mentioning young vs. old ginger. As you know, there's a significant difference in taste that might not be emphasized in, say, French cooking (I assume young ginger tends to be used in modern French cooking). However, the potential uses of old ginger (e.g., in casseroles, stews) are broader than most diners consider.

[Suvir Saran]

However, the potential uses of old ginger (e.g., in casseroles, stews) are broader than most diners consider. 

Care to expound on some of these, Cabrales? Please.

[cabrales]

Suvir -- As you know, I can't cook, so others might be better equipped to address the question of old vs. new ginger.

However, here are certain preliminary thoughts:

-- Young ginger tends to have smoother skin (as far as ginger skin goes) that is more uniform in color. There tend to be fewer areas where the skin has "gathered additional material" and less "veining" in the skin.

-- Old ginger tends to have an appearance that is, all other things being equal, larger and also more "uneven"/knobby.

-- One key difference is texture. The older ginger tends to be convey the sensation of more "strands" within the flesh, more delineation of sorts. It is less tender, but has character that one might want in certain dishes (or Asian dishes at least). For grated ginger, I doubt the older type would be preferable in certain dishes.

-- The taste also differs. Old Ginger is a bit stronger, and may be slightly "hotter".

-- While ginger is not one of my favorite flavorings, I note that it is an ingredient which appears to be utilized with some frequency by numerous French chefs, including Alain Senderens. The french term is "gingembre".

[Bux]

We were dining with Toby last night at DSGG. I'm not sure I'd ever describe turnip cake as "light and flutty," but all things are relative and the turnip cake at DSGG is much finer than the leaded and greasy mass sometimes found in other restaurants. It may be an acquired taste for western palates, but this is a place to try it in NY to get any appreciation for the dish. The stuffed fried bean curd skin on the appetizer list is often overlooked and well worth trying. It is of course, a no-carb alternative to a dumpling.

Old ginger is "woody." I think fiberous is too mild a term to use. I've never thought much about ginger. I've assumed young ginger is seasonal, but that might not be the case if it's always on the menu on DSGG. I see it in the narket from time to time, but I've not paid attention to note if the appearance is seasonal or just erratic. It's also possible that the young ginger used in DSGG is canned or preserved in some way. Where is Ed Schonfeld when we need him?

On Weekday nights, DSGG seems very under patronized. They also have an upstairs room they use when the restaurant is crowded or for private parties. It might make an excellent place for a group dinner.

[Suzanne F]

Glad to hear you had a good meal. Did they still have the "Roast chicken with garlic?"

Opinions here on DSGG tend to be so very much divided -- maybe because some people have trouble accepting it for what it is (a restaurant with a few French sensibilities and Chinese food) wanting it instead to be what it is not (an "authentic" Chinese joint). Does this seem like an accurate assessment?

[ducks before everything starts flying ]

[Stephanie]

I had a fairly decent meal there a few months ago. I definitely recommend the casserole with taro, chicken, and Chinese sausage.

[Bux]

The casserole definitely sounds like something I'd enjoy, especially in cold weather.

[suzanne F] Opinions here on DSGG tend to be so very much divided -- maybe because some people have trouble accepting it for what it is (a restaurant with a few French sensibilities and Chinese food) wanting it instead to be what it is not (an "authentic" Chinese joint). Does this seem like an accurate assessment?

Not entirely to me. One of the owners may be French (I don't know that for a fact. I've never given it any thought.) although a long time NY resident, but the original chef was from Hong Kong and I thought the food was contemporary Hong Kong food. "Authentic" may mean different things to different people. There seems to be a finese to the food, but I don't sense a particular French sensibility.

[Suvir Saran]

Suvir -- As you know, I can't cook, so others might be better equipped to address the question of old vs. new ginger.

However, here are certain preliminary thoughts:

-- Young ginger tends to have smoother skin (as far as ginger skin goes) that is more uniform in color. There tend to be fewer areas where the skin has "gathered additional material" and less "veining" in the skin.

-- Old ginger tends to have an appearance that is, all other things being equal, larger and also more "uneven"/knobby.

-- One key difference is texture. The older ginger tends to be convey the sensation of more "strands" within the flesh, more delineation of sorts. It is less tender, but has character that one might want in certain dishes (or Asian dishes at least).  For grated ginger, I doubt the older type would be preferable in certain dishes. 

-- The taste also differs. Old Ginger is a bit stronger, and may be slightly "hotter".

-- While ginger is not one of my favorite flavorings, I note that it is an ingredient which appears to be utilized with some frequency by numerous French chefs, including Alain Senderens. The french term is "gingembre".

Cabrales,

Thanks! For someone that does not cook, you know more about Ginger than most people I know. I teach a class on spices and ginger is of course one of the most popular spices I have realized.

What you share is what I know. Though we seem to react differently in some ways to old vs. new ginger.

I find new ginger far more spicy and flavorful than old. I use old ginger out of necessity when I am traveling and cooking at homes other than mine. If one can find new ginger, at least in Indian cooking, it is favorable. It gives amazing flavor and heat without adding hairs into sauces like old ginger can.

The few French chefs I have spoken with, have also shared their frustration in not being able to source young tender ginger.

I know when Ed Schoenfeld cooks, he always has very tender ginger. I am sure there are recipes in his repertoire where old tougher ginger is called for, and I have just not seen it. I can imagine using old ginger in stocks and stews.. for you can then just throw it away.

A Pakistani friend of mine uses ginger but very differently from most Indians. She uses older ginger for she cannot find a reliable source for younger ginger. What she does is to cut the ginger into large pieces and she fries it in the oil for a very long time. And then adds the remainder of the spices. This gives the oil the essence, flavor and qualities of ginger without giving its hairs. And after they have sautéed all the other spices, she then throws it out. She hates hairs of ginger in her sauces, and finds it impossible to cook without them using the tougher ginger we find most easily available in American groceries.

Again, I am mighty impressed by what you know, even under the guise of not knowing much. You are rather modest, even if only when it comes to your knowledge of ginger.

[cabrales]

She uses older ginger for she cannot find a reliable source for younger ginger.  What she does is to cut the ginger into large pieces and she fries it in the oil for a very long time.  And then adds the remainder of the spices.

The utilization of ginger to flavor oil is common in Cantonese cuisine. For example, certain stir fry dishes could benefit from this. Among other things, in Cantonese cuisine, ginger is paired with stir-fried pieces of cut fish or used (typically in thin strands) on top of whole steamed fish that has a soy/jus-based sauce and that has hot oil accompanying it. One of the purported rationales is that the ginger cuts the "fishy" tastes/smells of the fish (not that that is necessarily desirable, in my own view).

Edited December 13, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[Toby]

Now that I think about it, it's possible that the ginger wasn't young ginger; stir-fried beef with young ginger is something I cook whenever I can find young ginger, so I think I just associated it in my mind. The menu probably only said "preserved" ginger. But I do think it was preserved young ginger; it tasted fairly tender and mild.

I'd be interested in finding a source for fresh galangal in New York, if anyone has seen any around.

[Suvir Saran]

Now that I think about it, it's possible that the ginger wasn't young ginger; stir-fried beef with young ginger is something I cook whenever I can find young ginger, so I think I just associated it in my mind.  The menu probably only said "preserved" ginger.  But I do think it was preserved young ginger; it tasted fairly tender and mild.

I'd be interested in finding a source for fresh galangal in New York, if anyone has seen any around.

If you are a good girl, I can give you some from the pots of galangal we have growing.

Brought them back from Singapore.

[Toby]

Suvir, that would be great. Can you grow more galangal from existing galangal?

[Suvir Saran]

Suvir, that would be great.  Can you grow more galangal from existing galangal?

I think it should be. Once our plants have taken good root and are flourishing.. (next summer), I think it would be easy to separate the tubers and share some and make new plants. I am guessing this should be the case.

We have a few different types of galangal. I did not even know there were a few different ones. From dark to way darker.

[Suvir Saran]

Toby, a Tarte Tatin every other week between now and the summer, could make me very happy, that my happiness could ensure great energy in the apartment and ensure the perfect growth of the Galangal. Then, when summer comes, you can have a small baby galangal plant.

[Toby]

Another good meal at Dim Sum GoGo, rather similar to my last meal there, but with some additions. We started with duck soup with inoki and Chinese mushrooms served with a small, slightly sweet, roll. The soup was very tasty and had lots of slivered roast (I think) duck and mushrooms in it. Along with the soup, we had the wonderful succulent duck dumplings, nicely flavored shrimp balls, and bean curd skin with pork and vegetables (these were slightly too sweet this time). We then tried one of the appetizers, cold thin slices of pork with sesame jelly fish salad, which was better, but slightly mysterious -- surrounding the jelly fish salad, there were rolled up thin slices that tasted like daikon radish and possibly, from the color, some kind of ham.

For main courses, we had the shrimp with fresh soy beans and smoked Chinese bacon, the conch and cuttlefish casserole with rice noodles and the roast chicken with fried garlic stems. This was the first time I'd tried the chicken and it was quite good -- covered in what looked like fried bread crumbs, but were really the garlic stems. The chicken was very slightly dry, but very tasty.

I really like DSGG -- each dish has its own taste; there are no gloppy brown sauces on anything I've ever tried on the menu.

[Bux]

I've had all your main courses and can vouch for them. The appetizers soulund worth trying. My biggest problem with DSGG these days is that there are things I love there and can't stop ordering. There are so many that I don't get to try new things. I've discovered a couple of other good restaurants lately as well. Which I have mentioned in other threads or will get to soon.

[Bond Girl]

QUOTE 

[suzanne F] Opinions here on DSGG tend to be so very much divided -- maybe because some people have trouble accepting it for what it is (a restaurant with a few French sensibilities and Chinese food) wanting it instead to be what it is not (an "authentic" Chinese joint). Does this seem like an accurate assessment?

Suzanne,

You cannot be more correct on this. When I go to Chinatown, I want to have authentic Chinese. So, DSGG seemed a little strange to me. Having said that, I do enjoy Fusion cuisine, particularly if it's from AZ or Annisa. Can't put my finger on why I just haven't taken a liking to DGSS.

One of the owners may be French (I don't know that for a fact. I've never given it any thought.)

BUX,

DSGG is partly owned by Colette Rossant who happened to also write about food for the Daily News. The original chef that opened the restaurant with her left, and judging from what you guys post here, looks like she has worked out her differences with the new chef.

I tried the joint twice recently, still can't get used to it. It's not bad. Just not great.

[Simon Gittins]

I am intrigued by all this good press on DSGG. I have been there once, about 2 months ago and it was probably the worst dim sum I have had in years. The bau were poorly flavoured and stodgy, and for an off-the-menu place it was obvious some of the dim sum had been cooked some time ago. Lau bak goh (turnip cakes, one of my favourites) were truly awful. The service was atrocious (they forgot some of our orders and got other ones wrong) and I noted that over half the clientele were non-Chinese, no suprise given the mediocre Europeanized food. I crossed this off the list as a place never to return to, but maybe given all the glowing praise above I should try it again.

[Bux]

... maybe given all the glowing praise above I should try it again.

As one of those who really like this place, I'm going to say I suspect not. It may just not be to everyone's taste.

I knew Colette Rossant was a partner, I just wasn't sure she was a French citizen, although I thought she was. My understanding is that the original chef was from Hong Kong and that his food represented contemporary Hong Kong tastes. If it's fusion, it's fusion from a Hong Kong perspective not a New York perspective. I find it's a lighter food with greater emphasis on vegetables. I'm always told that the Chinese use meat sparingly, but the restaurants in Chinatown, catering either to westerners or a more afluent NY Chinese population (more affluent than one in China) generally seem to serve dishes with a lot of meat in them. I seem to enjoy DSGG and for my respite from the traditional food I've eaten in Chinatown for some forty odd years by way of DSGG's food, I'm discovering a reappreciation for the more traditional restaurants. Perhaps it's similar to how a meal at El Bulli seems to tune my appreciation for simple seafood in Barcelona.

I like turnip cakes and frequently order them when having dim sum. There are none I've enjoyed in NYC as much as the ones in DSGG. That doesn't mean they're the best. It could mean I don't really appreciate authentic turnip cakes or something else. There's no accounting for taste.

For those who don't like DSGG's style, I suggest Oriental Garden, Sweet 'n' Tart and A&B Lobster King House. The latter is an interesting, although perhaps not great, new restaurant with some fusion style of it's own. A fusion I suspect may also be borrowed from Hong Kong, but maybe not. For those who like DSGG, I recommend the same three restaurants as well.

[g.johnson]

I can?t claim to be an expert on Chinese food, but I got no sense of fusion at all on Friday. I thought all the food was excellent but the mains, particularly the chicken and the shrimp, were the real standouts. The dim sum were good, but the mains were exceptional. DSGG might not quite replace Grand Sichuan as my favorite Chinese but it was damn close and pleasantly different from GS.

[Suvir Saran]

I tried the joint twice recently, still can't get used to it.  It's not bad.  Just not great.

Similarly, I have given it some tries, but not sure why I am not charmed just yet. Actually not even close to being charmed. I certainly have gone on off days..

Maybe Ed Schoenfeld has ruined Chinese food for me... many meals with him, and I have become expectant of standards greater than what one would expect from restaurant food alone.

I now treat Chinese food like Indian food, the meal has to be exceptional to impress me. Ed makes amazing Chinese at his home, and years of dining frequently at his home, has spoiled me. Just like very few Indian restaurants can impress me, very few Chinese now come to that level. Bad Ed!

I shall try and go to DSGG with Ed. See if he can order for me and change my experience. I want to be a fan like the rest. I hate being in the minority. I am in so many ways. Or I should go with Bux, if he would be willing to be my guide. And I love vegetarian food.. but no turnips . I would love to enjoy this restaurant.... and I am willing.. now I need to find a new introduction to it. That is all.

[Suvir Saran]

... maybe given all the glowing praise above I should try it again.

As one of those who really like this place, I'm going to say I suspect not. It may just not be to everyone's taste.

Words from a very wise man...

[Bond Girl]

Bux,

Thank you for ther recommendation. I have been to sweet n tart and found it a "hit or miss", then again, it could be my own stigma about meat in general. (I can't stand chicken or any kind of bird) But, I will try Oriental Garden and A&B Lobster king house. Having spent many years exploring many different cuisines, I am re-discovering chinese food.

As for DSGG and contemporary HK food, I wouldn't know enough to comment. My many trips to HK over the years has somehow skewed my view on HK food in general. As a side note, I heard all about how Colette Rossant improved Chinese food from Colette Rossant about three weeks ago (She taught French at my work place), so may be this is the "European-ized food" that Simon Gittins is talking about. She did know more about Asian spices than I do, and I'm Taiwanese. Needless to say, I was very impressed.

By the way, where is El Bulli? Because I love love love Spanish food.

[Bond Girl]

Suvir,

Can I tag along with you and Ed? I'm with you and Simon on DSGG, but am willing to give it another try.