Ales vs. Lagers

[Hopleaf]

I'm always asked what the difference between ales and lagers are even though I don't consider myself a beer expert (more like a beer-drinking expert). I always thought that lagers were fermented once and then stored in a cold place, while ales were fermented once, then bottle conditioned and always stored in a warm place.

Do I have this wrong?

[rstarobi]

Close, but no cigar - lagers are fermented with a different form of yeast than ales. This yeast propagates better at cooler temperatures (40-44 degrees fahrenheit), whereas Ale yeasts work better at around 55-60 degrees.

[Hopleaf]

ok, so the yeasts are different. but there's also a difference in processes as well as ingredients, no?

[Shiva]

Ales use top fermenting yeasts and lagers use bottom fermenting yeasts. Lagers used to be 'lagered' or aged in cool caves for a few months before sale. Ales are almost always enjoyed fresh.

[mickblueeyes]

Saccharomyces cerevisiae vs. Saccharomyces carlsbergensis Nuff said

[Stone]

Just a little more info (very general):

Lager yeast (there are, of course, many types of yeasts, but they're generally separated into two categories -- lager and ale) is a bottom fermenting yeast. This means that the yeast does it's business sitting towards the bottom of the fermenting vessel. As mentioned, the yeast generally performs better at lower temperatures, which is also good because since the top of the liquid is relatively inactive, it's a good place for contamination to set in. The process of conversion is known as lagering, and takes a bit longer than with ale yeast. This is the method used most frequently in Germany and other Northern European countries where the beer barrels were stored in cold caves.

Ale yeast, on the other hand, is top fermenting. Because the yeast does its business on the top, it's more active and less prone to contamination. This allows the beer to ferment at higher temperatures, which in turn encourages the production of more esters and other flavorful compounds. Ales are usually darker, a little sweeter or fruitier.

Once fermentation ends, all beer should be stored in a cool dark place. I've never heard of any benefit gained from aging beer.

You often see the term "real ales." Although there is a bit of confusion, my understanding is that real ales have not been pasturized and still contain live yeast (there's usually a mist of sediment on the bottom of the bottle). (I've also heard that real ales are "primed" with malt/wort, as opposed to sugar or pressurized gas.)

[ivan]

Dstone001, I just want to let you know that your severe chastisement of my "can of soup" approach to home brewing, coupled with a recent thread on smoked beer, has inspired me to attempt to brew a from-scratch batch of mesquite-smoked beer. And now that the cooler weather has set in, I can attempt a lager, which I've never tried before. I think I'll buy a bag o' barley this week.

[Stone]

I wasn't trying to chastise you. Just to push you so that you could achieve your glorious potential.

Don't buy barley. Buy malt. It makes a big difference.

[ivan]

I wasn't trying to chastise you.  Just to push you so that you could achieve your glorious potential.

Don't buy barley.  Buy malt.  It makes a big difference.

Whether my potential is glorious or not is yet to be seen.

I am buying barley because I need to malt it myself. I am attempting a smoked beer, and the smokiness is achieved by drying the green malt over smoke.

<Emeril>

I don't know where you buy your malt, but where I buy it, it comes unsmoked.

</Emeril>

[Stone]

That's a lot of effort. Good luck. I've never heard of anyone germinating their own barley. But don't you think you could get the same results by smoking the malt itself?

[ivan]

But don't you think you could get the same results by smoking the malt itself?

Probably, if the temperature in the smoker is low enough not to roast the malt. All I have for smoking purposes is a Weber grill, so I thought I should combine the kilning and the smoking of the malt.

Coincidentally, I watched "Follow that Beer" on FoodTV last Sunday (starring affable home invader Gordon Elliott), and saw the malting floor in the Stella Artoir brewery in Belgium. Just a bunch of wet barley spread over acres of floor in a thin layer. Supposedly, it only takes 2-3 days for the barley to sprout. Then the trick is knowing just how much you want it to sprout before you kiln it. Also, the duration and temperature of the kilning is critical. Also, the type and amount of hops, type of yeast...

I have no idea what I'm doing. If beer of any acceptable quality results, I will be pleasantly surprised.

[jhlurie]

I wasn't trying to chastise you.  Just to push you so that you could achieve your glorious potential.

Don't buy barley.  Buy malt.  It makes a big difference.

Whether my potential is glorious or not is yet to be seen.

I am buying barley because I need to malt it myself. I am attempting a smoked beer, and the smokiness is achieved by drying the green malt over smoke.

<Emeril>

I don't know where you buy your malt, but where I buy it, it comes unsmoked.

</Emeril>

You should post on this--Klink style--over in the Adventures in Eating forum. Might make some good reading.

[Dave the Cook]

You should post on this--Klink style--over in the Adventures in Eating forum.   Might make some good reading.

Absolutely. This would be fascinating.

Since Jon brought up diaries, I should admit that modesty does not prevent me from linking this as another example.

[col klink]

I agree, you should post a diary. If we get enough of them, I'm sure we can get our own little section on the site!