Is the Seating Policy at Lupa Unreasonable?

[vivin]

I walked into a well respected restaurant (which will remain unnamed at this time) around 3:30 pm on Sat afternoon with my wife and an out of town guest. We had been walking around for a while It seemed like a good idea to stop for a while, enjoy a bottle of wine with some nibbles and introduce our guest to a very good New York style eatery. I had immensely enjoyed a bottle of a 10 year old wine there a couple of weeks ago and was going to have it again if something else did not catch our eye. I made the mistake to volunteer that information to the host when I walked in. He seemed to hesitate and asked us to wait. He kind of went around the bar and returned after a couple of minutes later. “It is not the restaurant's policy to offer seats to anyone who does not want to have a full meal. You are welcome to wait for an opening at the bar.” It was 3:30 and they had around 15 seats open but nothing at the bar. No deal. He had three menus in hand – seemingly ready to seat us – only if we committed to a full meal.

We walked out bewildered. I called the manager 10 minutes later to complain. She said that they had a lot of reservations coming in starting 4:30 and could not offer us a table. This seemed to be a convenient after the fact argument. However, she also confirmed that it was policy to not offer tables to people who are only there for wine and appetizers. One, we have done this there at the same restaurant (also in the afternoon). Two, the host seemed ready to seat us only if we had opened out mouth and committed to a full meal. I let her know that I have been visiting the restaurant 3-4 times a year for 7-8 years and was not happy. She said if I had been a regular, it might have been different.

To me, this seems like a case of a straightforward business decision. If you are going to eat a full meal, spend 40-50 a head, they will give you a table, otherwise not. I let her know that between the wine and apps, they had lost at least a 200 hundred dollar tab. However incensed I felt at having been treated like that at the time, I would like opinions on the issue.

[rconnelly]

I think you should mention the name. Otherwise there is no point to telling us this.

[Sneakeater]

I don't see anything wrong with this policy at all.

[MikeHartnett]

I think this is where a restaurant walks the fine line between hospitality and profit. Since they need to profit, I think this policy is just fine. However, I think that in this case, they've neglected the hospitality aspect, and perhaps they need to consider a new way to explain it to the customer.

[Nathan]

without knowing the restaurant it's impossible to say whether it's a contravention of their normal operating procedures....but it's a policy that would make business sense for some restaurants...for others it would be a mistake.

[Busboy]

I tend to check with the host when wandering into a restaurant seeking only to drink and graze. Whether you were dissed in this particular case is hard to say, but its a pretty common policy at restaurants above a certain level of expense/sophistication.

[vivin]

I sort of agree that it would make sense for some restaurants not for others. This case is harder to establish.

The restaurant in question is Lupa. I did not want to come off as trying to slander a restaurant, especially given that I really like the restaurant and have been there so many times.

[raji]

Lupa!!

cue Nathan in 5...4...3...

[slkinsey]

Lupa could definitely expect to be packed by the time you would have been ready to leave.

[Fat Guy]

It seems to me that restaurants wishing to sell only full meals have the simple option of offering only prix-fixe menus. You'd never have this problem at Gramercy Tavern, for example, because a full meal is your only choice in the main dining room. If you want less than a full meal you need to eat in the Tavern room, simply because there's no other way to order less than a full meal. By offering an a la carte menu with individually priced dishes and no required meal structure, Lupa brings this sort of awkward situation on itself. I mean, what would they have done if Vivin had just taken a table and ordered less than a full meal?

[jm chen]

It's unfortunate that the incident left you feeling maligned, but I think it's not an unusual policy, and I wouldn't feel personally dissed if it happened to me. Surprised. Annoyed. But not dissed. I would have shrugged and tried my luck at Otto.

And good on you for contacting the manager immediately, by the way. So many times people have complaints or want clarification and never let the restaurant know.

[vivin]

Fat Guy,

I asked that exact question of the manager. She informed me that had I gotten a table, the server would have to get permission to serve me a less than full meal and they would have evaluated the situation. Would they have asked me to leave after seating me? I can't see that happening. I completely discount that possibility. Becase I have had wine bottles and apps at Lupa around the same time of the day on a weekend. I was completely taken aback because this seems like it stemmed from me volunteering information up front.

[Fat Guy]

I just don't see what they were worried about. They were willing to seat you for a full meal, but they couldn't accommodate you on account of too many 4:30pm reservations? Yet, if you'd just had snacks and wine, you'd have been out much sooner than if you'd had a multi-course meal. They totally could have said they'd need the table back by 4:30pm, though I doubt that's even true. Sounds like a breakdown in hospitality wrapped around a bunch of lame excuses, and given the bureaucratic service I've experienced too often at the Batali/Bastianich restaurants I'm not surprised. Sheesh, they should have just let you sit and eat some food.

[Chris Amirault]

Am I missing something? Is there a rush on tables at 4:30 on Saturdays in Manhattan these days?

[weinoo]

Am I missing something? Is there a rush on tables at 4:30 on Saturdays in Manhattan these days?

←

At Lupa, yes...especially in the summer when the hordes are shopping in Soho, Noho, etc.

[Bliss]

What is a full meal? Looking at their menu, what I like about it is the many small choices. I'm a small woman and often my choice for dinner is what the restaurant lists as two first courses. I have never been treated poorly because of it. Obviously at restaurants that only have prix fixe I am prepared to eat that way.

Am I missing something? Is there a rush on tables at 4:30 on Saturdays in Manhattan these days?

←

[MikeHartnett]

I just don't see what they were worried about. They were willing to seat you for a full meal, but they couldn't accommodate you on account of too many 4:30pm reservations? Yet, if you'd just had snacks and wine, you'd have been out much sooner than if you'd had a multi-course meal.

←

That's the issue I've been puzzling over. Really, the policy only makes sense if they think that you'd be taking over a spot they could be generating momre revenue from, due to a full meal v. snacks. But if there's nobody else there, and if they had room to sit you for a full meal if you'd chosen that route, it makes no sense that they're refusing to give you an open seat and thus generate some revenue instead of none at all.

[Chris Amirault]

Am I missing something? Is there a rush on tables at 4:30 on Saturdays in Manhattan these days?

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At Lupa, yes...especially in the summer when the hordes are shopping in Soho, Noho, etc.

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And then the hungry shoppers nosh on, say, wine and snacks?

[weinoo]

It was 3:30 and they had around 15 seats open but nothing at the bar. No deal. He had three menus in hand – seemingly ready to seat us – only if we committed to a full meal.

We walked out bewildered. I called the manager 10 minutes later to complain. She said that they had a lot of reservations coming in starting 4:30 and could not offer us a table.

←

It sounds from your description that the restaurant was fairly crowded, even when you walked in...with those reservations coming in in another hour or so, I can understand them not wanting to give up a table for snacks and wine.

But I also accept FG's description of a possible "breakdown in hospitality wrapped around a bunch of lame excuses," but don't necessarily feel it's due to any special bureaucracy at Lupa.

[Nathan]

its kind of standard operating procedure in Batali/Bastianich restaurants.

I remember once walking into Lupa with a friend at a similar time and telling the bartender we intended to eat. he promptly kicked a young woman drinking wine out of her bar seats (she was holding on to one for a tardy friend) so we could sit and order. she looked rather disgruntled. I was happy. the reality is, those restaurants have a specific dining format and, due to their popularity, they can do it.

[vivin]

I do think it was some kind of break down. That is evident. I understand it is a business. My family is in the business.

I would do as Fat Guy suggests. Offer the table and say we need it back by 4:30. I have no problem with that. It is a busy restaurant on Sat.

But making the excuse of policy (which I know is not really a hard policy) OR the reservations coming soon (which did not seem the case given the host looked like he was ready to seat us) is just a bungle of public relations. Walking out of the restaurant and then talking to the manager just made me feel like they let me go because they did not think I would spend enough and take up their table.

[juuceman]

Lupa has always had an interesting seating policy which only now has caused it to be problematic for you. I often eat there, probably 90% of the time at the bar. for whatever reasons, the overall experience just works better for me there. they will not seat people at the bar who just want to drink once there is any sort of a wait for bar stools and people wanting to eat there. like Nathan, they have asked people to shift seats or stand to permit me to eat at the bar.. it's their model, and their policy if you're open and upfront with them about it..

they do have a more casual model in the front room at Otto, where you can stand, or sit at the larger bar, with a better wine list, and more snack type items available.

their policy worked out better for you than if you had ordered wine, then later just appetizers, at which point the position they were in would have been a more awkward one.. I'm sure that the cost of the bottle of wine would have dictated their stance towards you, and whether they offered to allow you to order another bottle later in the afternoon.. at the end of the day though, i don't think they want to be known as a restaurant where it's ok to sit at a table and order just a bottle (or quartino) of wine and a small snack..

[jsmeeker]

Lupa has always had an interesting seating policy which only now has caused it to be problematic for you.  I often eat there, probably 90% of the time at the bar.  for whatever reasons, the overall experience just works better for me there.  they will not seat people at the bar who just want to drink once there is any sort of a wait for bar stools and people wanting to eat there. like Nathan, they have asked people to shift seats or stand to permit me to eat at the bar..  it's their model, and their policy if you're open and upfront with them about it.. 

←

By seat at the bar, do you mean at a table in the bar area or a seat/stool at the ACTUAL bar? Isn't an actual bar, even if it's in a restaurant, primarily for drinking? Also, bar seating is typically "first come first served".

If they don't want the bar to be a place for drinkers, why not simply have a long communal table for solo diners or people who just want to show up?

[Nathan]

Lupa has always had an interesting seating policy which only now has caused it to be problematic for you.  I often eat there, probably 90% of the time at the bar.  for whatever reasons, the overall experience just works better for me there.  they will not seat people at the bar who just want to drink once there is any sort of a wait for bar stools and people wanting to eat there. like Nathan, they have asked people to shift seats or stand to permit me to eat at the bar..  it's their model, and their policy if you're open and upfront with them about it.. 

←

By seat at the bar, do you mean at a table in the bar area or a seat/stool at the ACTUAL bar? Isn't an actual bar, even if it's in a restaurant, primarily for drinking? Also, bar seating is typically "first come first served".

If they don't want the bar to be a place for drinkers, why not simply have a long communal table for solo diners or people who just want to show up?

←

in New York, dining at the ACTUAL bar is very common. from what I've seen, much more so than any other American city. its a way for people to get around having to plan all of their meals weeks or months in advance. at all Batali restaurants besides Del Posto, diners are prioritized over drinkers at the bar. as someone who can't plan meals weeks in advance...I obviously like this.

Lupa has a long communal table. its mainly occupied by couples and groups and the waits for it can be hours long, just like for the other tables.

[jsmeeker]

Lupa has always had an interesting seating policy which only now has caused it to be problematic for you.  I often eat there, probably 90% of the time at the bar.  for whatever reasons, the overall experience just works better for me there.  they will not seat people at the bar who just want to drink once there is any sort of a wait for bar stools and people wanting to eat there. like Nathan, they have asked people to shift seats or stand to permit me to eat at the bar..  it's their model, and their policy if you're open and upfront with them about it.. 

←

By seat at the bar, do you mean at a table in the bar area or a seat/stool at the ACTUAL bar? Isn't an actual bar, even if it's in a restaurant, primarily for drinking? Also, bar seating is typically "first come first served".

If they don't want the bar to be a place for drinkers, why not simply have a long communal table for solo diners or people who just want to show up?

←

in New York, dining at the ACTUAL bar is very common. from what I've seen, much more so than any other American city. its a way for people to get around having to plan all of their meals weeks or months in advance. at all Batali restaurants besides Del Posto, diners are prioritized over drinkers at the bar. as someone who can't plan meals weeks in advance...I obviously like this.

Lupa has a long communal table. its mainly occupied by couples and groups and the waits for it can be hours long, just like for the other tables.

←

Over the past many years, I have traveled a lot for work, with a lot of that being solo travel. So, I've spent a lot of time having meals at bars. for the most part, I am more comfortable dining there solo as opposed to a table. Still, the thought of a bartender kicking someone out who is enjoying a cocktail or a glass of wine just so I can eat mortifies me. Really, I would never expect it to happen. Even if it WOULD benefit me (and there have been cases where the bar was full and I just couldn't sit down), it would make me feel really weird.