Pierre Koffman possibly retiring?

[Gary Marshall]

The second departure from the two star scene in the mould of pierre koffman is Germain Schwab of winteringham fields.

PK is his favourite chef apparently. Germain does little to self publicise and is a true chef's chef. If he's not in the kitchen, the restaurant doesn't open.

Winteringham is up for sale, germains retirement would be a sad loss to the british restaurant scene.

[Matthew Grant]

Matthew's review had an awful ring of fin de siecle about it, as if Koffman wasn't bothering to maintain his impeccable standards anymore as in "what's the point"

Just noticed this quote from PK in this weeks Restaurant magazine:

"He was philisophical about his departure from the Berkeley saying: "That's life. I'm not interested in the hotel anymore""

I'll let you make up your own minds as to whether you want to cancel now but I wish I had read that quote before my meal

Edited November 24, 2002 by Matthew Grant (log)

[Andy Lynes]

There are still some places that exist by word of mouth.  Chavot is not one for courting publicity ( as far as I am aware ) and The Capital seems to exist by good word of mouth.  But for everyone of him there is a Conrad Gallagher or an Angela Harnett who is given a restaurant kitchen to run in a massive media glare. 

The Capital does have a hotel full of US businessmen and tourists to keep it going, it is part of a group so can swop customers with The Greenhouse and Peoples Palace to a certain extent. Chavot has appeared on tele once or twice but didn't appear too comfortable with it I'd have to say.

I think the future for PK is away from the Michelin star circuit. He should do basic, unadorned South West cooking at reasonable prices somewhere outside the West End where set up costs will be less alarming and coin it in before he retires.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

I think the future for PK is away from the Michelin star circuit. He should do basic, unadorned South West cooking at reasonable prices somewhere outside the West End

What, like Cornish pasties and cream teas?

[Andy Lynes]

Yes. Morel and sweetbread cornish pasties.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

Yes. Morel and sweetbread cornish pasties.

Tee Hee!

But seriously, What Koffman needs is a gimmick. Some easy copy to grease those column inches.

Any suggestions?

[Simon Majumdar]

Absolutely right LML. He is going to need some sctick if he wants to be taken seriously by the media. Being a superlative chef who gives a fuck is no longer enough

Are all the below taken

1) Riding a vespa

2) playing one game for Rangers reserves and then claiming " I could have been a professional"

3) Growing ludicrously long hair and insisting that people refer to you as "The Don"

If all of those are taken, I supsect he may have to claim to have had a vison of our lady in his new restaurant and, as a result, be able to heal the sick. Mind you, that would scupper the next series of Jamie's Kitchen.

S

[Tonyfinch]

I'm not sure that he does need a gimmick. A restaurant serving authentic food and wines from Gascony and Southern France-one that was more relaxed and less tapas like than Club Gascon- could be a great success.

[Simon Majumdar]

Would that that were so Tony, but I am not sure it is or ever will be again the case that a restaurant will succeed just because it is any good, particularly not if it is in the centre of London. Look at the much lamented High Holborn. Superb food, exemplary service and not impossibly priced AND lasted about a year.

I can't see PK being happy moving out to the burbs and, while I can see a lot of interest from "foodies" or people on egullet, that is not going to support a place for very long.

He would need to get onto the map for visitors and those who, like a good chum of mine "like to eat out, but know bugger all about food, so just look for what's hip" to do that, he needs to court publicity and create a buzz. I am not sure he is either inclined or indeed capable of doing that and certainly not towards the end of his career.

From the two or three times I have seen him interviewed, I am not sure he is very media friendly.

Whether you love or loathe the place, the perfect example of how to open a new place, create a buzz and have it booked out until doomsday has to be Locanda Locatelli. I can't see PK going through the same grind to achieve that at this stage in his life and quite frankly why should he?

S

[Tonyfinch]

You may well be right,but I have a suspicion that regional authenticity could be the "gimmick" he needs. Is that not the case with Club Gascon? He could specialise in regional cuisine in comfortable surroundings, exploring the depth of the area's culinary offerings. He could call it "Memories of Gascony" and reproduce the cuisine of his grandmere's farm. Menus would change but offer limited choice within each course-obviating the need for a huge kitchen brigade. Wines could all be regional-obviating the need for a huge cellar.

This may mean its not as glitzy as Locatelli but surely there will always be a good market for authentic regional French cuisine cooked by a renowned chef.

This may not work in the very centre of London but maybe a little further out-like Wapping for instance. I'd go.

Edited November 25, 2002 by Tonyfinch (log)

[Steve Plotnicki]

When's the last time an older chef who cooked in the style that the last generation made popular opened a place that people really cared about? It doesn't really happen. There's a reason that Koffman is closing, people don't care about his food the same way they did 20 years ago. I mean why is GR in Royal Hospital Road instead of PK? Are you saying that Ramsey made it profitable but PK couldn't or thought the hotel would offer a better opportunity? I can't imagine that he is closing because he didn't get along with the hotel. It is more likely that he is closing because he wasn't getting big crowds at the restaurant and that's the source of his "not getting along" with the hotel. His restaurant in the Berkely was never the subject of rave reviews. It was more about his chef/celebrity. I've never eaten at any of his restaurants but, I would imagine that a meal at PK is inferior to a meal at a place like Gordon Ramsey in the same way that a meal at La Cote Basque in NYC is inferior to a meal at Daniel.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

When's the last time an older chef who cooked in the style that the last generation made popular opened a place that people really cared about? It doesn't really happen. There's a reason that Koffman is closing, people don't care about his food the same way they did 20 years ago. I mean why is GR in Royal Hospital Road instead of PK? Are you saying that Ramsey made it profitable but PK couldn't or thought the hotel would offer a better opportunity? I can't imagine that he is closing because he didn't get along with the hotel. It is more likely that he is closing because he wasn't getting big crowds at the restaurant and that's the source of his "not getting along" with the hotel. His restaurant in the Berkely was never the subject of rave reviews.  It was more about his chef/celebrity. I've never eaten at any of his restaurants but, I would imagine that a meal at PK is inferior to a meal at a place like Gordon Ramsey in the same way that a meal at La Cote Basque in NYC is inferior to a meal at Daniel.

The truth of the matter is that Koffman gives the food press nothing to write about except for his food. His popularity would no doubt rocket if he were to allow a TV company to broadcast him dunking a commis' face in the fat fryer, etc.

[Steve Plotnicki]

His popularity would no doubt rocket if he was able to cook something that the press cared to write about. The press, media, etc. do not do the cooking. They only enhance a cook's reputation, some to the point of celebrity. But the launch point for doing that is a chef's ability to cook in a way that people care about. Even on this thread the people who supposedly love PK haven't eaten in his restaurant for years. Not because the press hasn't reported on it, but because there has been no positive word of mouth on the place so it hasn't been an interesting place to take a meal in years.

I always find that people are melancholy for the stars of their generation and want them to make a comeback. There are countless music execs that believe if they only make a good Graham Parker or Bad Company (generic examples of older artists) CD then it will sell. I'm sure Simon can recount similar stories from the publishing biz with writers whose style has passed us by (if there is an equivelent in that business.) But it rarely, rarely ever happens that they are a success. There are reasons that most people who aren't popular anymore can't make comebacks. It's some funny combination of time passing them by and a lack of enthusiam on their part. That's why it will be interesting to see what Robuchon does in his new restaurant and will he be able to avoid the pitfalls associated with "making a comeback." But PK seems to have ceased to be important to the U.K. dining scene along time ago. I would be very surprised if he was able to do anything to change that.

[Tonyfinch]

I think the point is which chef IS important to the UK dining scene who is NOT also a media celebrity?

[Simon Majumdar]

His popularity would no doubt rocket if he was able to cook something that the press cared to write about. The press, media, etc. do not do the cooking. They only enhance a cook's reputation, some to the point of celebrity. But the launch point for doing that is a chef's ability to cook in a way that people care about. Even on this thread the people who supposedly love PK haven't eaten in his restaurant for years. Not because the press hasn't reported on it, but because there has been no positive word of mouth on the place so it hasn't been an interesting place to take a meal in years.

I always find that people are melancholy for the stars of their generation and want them to make a comeback. There are countless music execs that believe if they only make a good Graham Parker or Bad Company (generic examples of older artists) CD then it will sell. I'm sure Simon can recount similar stories from the publishing biz with writers whose style has passed us by (if there is an equivelent in that business.) But it rarely, rarely ever happens that they are a success. There are reasons that most people who aren't popular anymore can't make comebacks. It's some funny combination of time passing them by and a lack of enthusiam on their part. That's why it will be interesting to see what Robuchon does in his new restaurant and will he be able to avoid the pitfalls associated with "making a comeback." But PK seems to have ceased to be important to the U.K. dining scene along time ago. I would be very surprised if he was able to do anything to change that.

This is interesting. Steve makes a few points

1) I am not sure if cooking what the press "cares" to write about is relevant. I don't think the press, even the reviewers give a tinkers cuss about the food. They just want copy. To that extent LML is right. PK just is not fashionable and probably is not capable ( in the unlikely event that he would want to be ) of being so

2) What is very true is that when this thread firsts started many people ( excluding LML who seems to have more recent experience than most of LTC ) rushed to book.

a) Because we mourned the passing of an institution

b) Because there was some guilt that we had never been or not been recently

I have not been since it was in the new place ( in fact I posted a thread recently asking about it as a suitable business venue ) The reason? None really apart from it is not cheap and when the notion came up to go there, there was always somewhere else I wanted to go.

The comparison with music or books is a valid one. We do not like to see our heroes get old or lose relevance. It makes us aware of our own increasing age and it makes us question our own judgements. How tragic that Morrisey could not find a record company. The voice of one generation is irrelevant to another generation. How tracic to read the latest William Boyd, a legend, agreat and a God and one of the nicest men on God's earth, but his latest novel shows all the signs of a burnt out engine.

You can have a comeback in publishing. How much hoopla would there have been for a new Salinger novel? how great was the publicity when Heller wrote a sequel to catch 22? But tellingly, how rubbish was the book and how soon did he slip back into irrelavancy?

Shame but truthful, Steve

S

[Steve Plotnicki]

Well the cold and hard way to look at what Simon has added is that these things (books, recordings and restaurants) are all businesses that need a certain amount of working capital to make them work. And when the notariety of the artisans who drive these businesses falls below a certain level, it's hard to make the numbers work. To look at this the other way, and this discussion is taking place on the U.K. restaurant closing thread, is that most businesses that are very successful don't decide to shut down in the midst of that success. Yes people retire but they usually find a way to keep a strong cashflow going.

I should add to this that it is sad but I don't really think it's shameful. As much as we would all like for PK's restaurant to be great, it really isn't and that is probably the source of the split with the Berekely. I know I make it sound complicated but I always take the simple view in the first instance on these things. Most things of quality do well in the marketplace. Sure there are things that have merit and that are worthy that don't, and it can be blamed on some marketing guy or idiotic executive at a corporartion, but my experience is that the market is pretty flexible and if people like something, all the bad marketers and execustives in the world can't hold back it's success. With a restaurant, nothing helps a restaurant more then rave reviews. So far I haven't heard any and LML's upgrading from Matthew Grant's pan didn't exactly claim the place was cooking with it's burners at their highest flame.

Edited November 25, 2002 by Steve Plotnicki (log)

[Wilfrid]

Well, I bailed out too. Instead, I am going to correct the fact that I have never been to Le Gavroche. Before it closes.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

I know I make it sound complicated but I always take the simple view in the first instance on these things. Most things of quality do well in the marketplace. Sure there are things that have merit and that are worthy that don't, and it can be blamed on some marketing guy or idiotic executive at a corporartion, but my experience is that the market is pretty flexible and if people like something, all the bad marketers and execustives in the world can't hold back it's success.

Typical self-contradictory laissez faire nonsense.

The irony is, or perhaps sardony, is that 'quality' no longer figures in the success equation being, as it is, unmarketable.

Few would dispute that Koffman has been offering dining of the highest quality up to, almost, the present day. His problems are more a result of the devaluation of anything to do with 'quality' in favour of marketability. In short his most marketable feature has become unmarketable.

[Wilfrid]

The question I have raised in the past, which has never been adequately addressed, is how the theory enunciated by Mr P. is impacted by the evident fact that the market loves dross. What he says about La Tante Claire today may or may not be true, but the explanation fails in the absence of any even slightly reliable correlation between marketability and merit.

[Tonyfinch]

When Nico Ladenis and Marco Pierre White "handed back" their Michelin stars on the grounds that they were "no longer relevant to the needs of the modern diner", they expounded on what they meant.

They felt that in the UK people did not want the seriousness and formality that that level of dining entailed.They did not want to wear a jacket and tie or an expensive frock, they did not want a heavy and formal atmosphere, they did not want a wine list as long as the Bible and as expensive as jewellery, they did not want to slog through the kind of menus that we read all about on the France thread. They didn't care about heavy napiery and lush carpeting.

The French are much happier than the British in such an atmosphere. They invented it after all and they feel at home with the formality and the ritual of 3 star dining.They are also far more willing to pay astronomical prices in restaurants than are the Brits.

There IS a market in the UK for two and three star Michelin type dining but it is very limited and it is mostly centered in London.The Brits are far happier in places like The Merchant House, which cultivate a relaxed, intimate atmosphere. They also care far less about Michelin stars than the French. I think PK's type of restaurant has fallen victim to the MPW/NL scenario. People don't want it any more. The want less formality and more warmth and intimacy.

I predict PK will be back with a new venture which more accurately reflects the market's new requirements. And I reckopn it could be as successfull in its own way as LTC was for all those years.

[Tonyfinch]

Well, I bailed out too.  Instead, I am going to correct the fact that I have never been to Le Gavroche.  Before it closes. 

Wilfred. Be sure to write up Le Gavroche. I'm thinking of going for my 20th anniversary in January and I'd really appreciate an assessment of current form.

I was there for lunch last year and the service was so balletic I felt like I was at a performance. It was all I could do not to grab a silver domed tray and pirouette around the restaurant myself. Let us know if ts still like that and what M. Roux is serving up these days.

[Andy Lynes]

I predict PK will be back with a new venture which more accurately reflects the market's new requirements.

I would certainly like to see that happen, and will be first in the queue if it does. He's done three star independent restaurant (which is no longer a viable option as I think has already been discussed), he's done "we're in a hotel but pretend we're not really", why not chef/parton of a medium sized/low overheads/minimal or no investors required/ I'll take all the profits thank you very much cash cow to see him to retirement? In the right location at the right price point, I'm sure he could make it work without having to worry if people know his name or not.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Koffman's comeback is completely dependant on his reinventing himself though updating his cuisine. Or, making traditional cuisine taste so good that he is thought of as "classic." Like Le Gavroche. But what I don't understand is why he couldn't do that at the Berkeley and why anyone thinks his moving to a new location will have the type of positive affect on his cooking that you are all hoping for?

[Andy Lynes]

I would like to see him continue to knock out the classics, but at a price I can afford.

I ate at both La Tante Claire locations and had excellent meals both times, although service was better first time around. The restaurant pretty much doubled in size with the move and that maybe something PK never got to grips with after so long in a smaller place (that is total guesswork though).

As Tony has said, it's more about the uptight ambiance than the food, although Matthew's recent experience and PK's comments in the press would seem to reflect the fact that he can't wait to get out of the place. He has afterall been effectively sacked by the hotel to be replaced by a younger man. I would assume he is not feeling at his most motivated under those cirumstances.

[Vanessa]

I was under the impression that PK moved to the Berkeley after the death of his wife, my conjecture being that she had probably run the front-of-house/business side of things and he no longer felt able to operate independently. Probably, having spent many years in an independent business, he would have had quite a culture shock at being part of a hotel operation and it would be fully understandable that this new relationship might not work out.

v