Saratoga Springs - '08, '09 Racing Seasons

[docsconz]

Fiddleheads a restaurant in Glens falls known for their crabcakes has closed after twelve years. The chef/owner blamed the closure on a bad back.

[markabauman]

Moderator's Note:  Looks like Chez Sophie will be closing, but will be open throughout the 2009 racing season.

Chez Sophie letter

[ELA]

Unfortunately, while it might be the last summer for Chez Sophie, I will not be returning to this restaurant this racing racing season. I went there several times last season, and after my last visit I vowed I would not return, and I haven't.

I've been a customer of Chez Sophie for many years, like many, going back to previous location. Once they moved into the hotel space I think there was a change. I don't know if they got too big, or the numbers became overwhelming, or what. First, the food was just not as good. I am not talking about a rapid decline or some drastic change, but over time, I found the food to not be as good.

Second, over the course of the past year or two, there has been a noticable change in the quality of service, with the final occurence taking place this past season.

While this might be shocking to some, I found the service and treatment absolutely poor. I've never been more insulted and offended. This was not an isolated occurence as the previous visit (one week earlier), while not nearly as bad was not good either. Many friends were dining there once or twice a week during the season and many of the comments were negative, some poor.

Eric

[ELA]

So, now is as good a time as any to talk about new spots, openings, closings, etc.

Anything new and exciting going on?

Thanks.

Eric

[docsconz]

So, now is as good a time as any to talk about new spots, openings, closings, etc.

Anything new and exciting going on?

Thanks.

Eric

←

Springwater Bistro is no more. There really isn't a whole lot new in Saratoga itself. Hearth & Harvest, a wood-fired pizza restaurant near Saratoga lake (where The Chameleon on the lake used to be) has generated positive buzz though I haven't been myself yet.

[ELA]

So, now is as good a time as any to talk about new spots, openings, closings, etc.

Anything new and exciting going on?

Thanks.

Eric

←

Springwater Bistro is no more. There really isn't a whole lot new in Saratoga itself. Hearth & Harvest, a wood-fired pizza restaurant near Saratoga lake (where The Chameleon on the lake used to be) has generated positive buzz though I haven't been myself yet.

←

In a way, I wasn't expecting a lot of "new" places or openings as much as I was, unfortunately, expecting more closings. Again, as I said, I was sorry to see Springwater Bistro close. I put Springwater heads and shoulders above any other place in Saratoga for fine dining. I don't know if they were opened year-round, but it's impossible to gauge anything to the 6 week race meet.

I don't know the ecomomics, and I am not sure if they dictate -- along with the current economic environment -- if survival is tougher for a place like Springwater. I very much used to look forward to going there and I was good for numerous visits during the meet.

Are restaurants doing anything to promote business? If you think back, last racing season was just pre-economic meltdown. We've seen gas prices soar, and that was a hit. We saw economic slowdown, and that was a hit. The last two years restaurant owners, business owners, etc. told me business was off, down, slow, etc. Some threw around numbers like "down 20%" and down substantially.

Now, my question is -- what about now? Just after last summer we saw the economic meltdown, and while we've seen the foundation for a recovery, how will this impact this summer -- rentals, retail, restaurants, and so on? The brokers tell me that Saratoga is "insulated" and hasn't been impacted. They say they are busier than ever and rentals are hot. Hotels haven't dropped their prices.

So what's going on?

Thanks.

Eric

[docsconz]

I think to a significant extent it is true that Saratoga has been insulated, but so many restaurants operate on such thin margins, ti doesn't necessarily take much to run them out. Given the overall state of the economy, it is remarkable that there have been as few closings as there have been and not all of those are directly attributable to the economy, including Springwater. In the case of Chez Sophie, they simply had an opportunity that they could not pass up, a now-or-never opportunity. I expect Saratoga to be very busy this summer. If it is not, I would not be surprised to see more closings as all the businesses depend on a strong summer season.

[ELA]

I think to a significant extent it is true that Saratoga has been insulated, but so many restaurants operate on such thin margins, ti doesn't necessarily take much to run them out. Given the overall state of the economy, it is remarkable that there have been as few closings as there have been and not all of those are directly attributable to the economy, including Springwater. In the case of Chez Sophie, they simply had an opportunity that they could not pass up, a now-or-never opportunity. I expect Saratoga to be very busy this summer. If it is not, I would not be surprised to see more closings as all the businesses depend on a strong summer season.

←

I agree to an extent. However, I think the "bottom" or the actual "crash landing" tends to be worse due to the emotional aspect, more so than the economic one. I am not trivializing what's going on, but the "hold outs" tend to "give in" when it's too late -- whether they are restaurants, rentals, people selling their homes or businesses, etc.

I think you are right -- it is remarkable, but I don't think that it's because Saratoga has been insulated, at least not exclusively. I think it's due to, in part, a facade. Brokers telling people rentals are hot. Landlords hearing it. Landlords not dropping prices. Sellers not dropping prices and watching inventory grow. Demand diminishes due to sellers actions and lack of reactioins, credit markets, capital markets, etc. Vendors not reacting fast enough. Pressuring clients for A/R's. And so on. This too can make it worse. Because if you wait too long, you are underwater and just don't know it. By the time you know it, it is too late. Then, it's like quicksand.

All I had was brokers telling me that the market is hot. Hot hot hot!!! Renting like hot cakes. Yet every one of my friends told me they received lower offers from their tenants of last year and a few said their tenants weren't coming back this year. There's reality.

Saratoga will always be busy. It's a question of how busy and if busy enough. Compared to last year? 3 years ago? 5? 10?

Thanks.

Eric

[markabauman]

Despite the downturn in the economy and the difficulties facing the restaurant industry, there have been a number of recent openings in Saratoga Springs. A branch of the popular El Mexicano restaurant from Hudson Falls has just opened in the spot formerly occupied by Chianti on South Broadway. I've been to the HF branch a couple of times and have enjoyed their food. There are now quite a few Mexican restaurants in Saratoga, but I do believe they will do well. 8 Tables has opened in the location formerly occupied by Lanci's. Just looked at the menu online, looks like an eclectic mix. Chef is the original one from Dine. Sabina's wood-fired pizza opened in the old spot long-held by Bruno's. Harvest & Hearth is probably better, but Sabina's location across from the track will help. Heard that Springwater may re-open with different people. Lots of rumors, but nothing confirmed regarding who will take over the Chez Sophie spot. The people who run Bellini's in Clifton Park are supposedly opening another Italian restaurant (but not another Bellini's) in the new Hampton Inn near the police station. Might be delayed by the slow construction pace/sale of the high-end condos behind the Hampton. If you are coming for track season, it might be worth your while to take a trip down to Albany to check out the eponymous Dale Miller restaurant.

[ELA]

Despite the downturn in the economy and the difficulties facing the restaurant industry, there have been a number of recent openings in Saratoga Springs. A branch of the popular El Mexicano restaurant from Hudson Falls has just opened in the spot formerly occupied by Chianti on South Broadway. I've been to the HF branch a couple of times and have enjoyed their food. There are now quite a few Mexican restaurants in Saratoga, but I do believe they will do well. 8 Tables has opened in the location formerly occupied by Lanci's. Just looked at the menu online, looks like an eclectic mix. Chef is the original one from Dine. Sabina's wood-fired pizza opened in the old spot long-held by Bruno's. Harvest & Hearth is probably better, but Sabina's location across from the track will help. Heard that Springwater may re-open with different people. Lots of rumors, but nothing confirmed regarding who will take over the Chez Sophie spot. The people who run Bellini's in Clifton Park are supposedly opening another Italian restaurant (but not another Bellini's) in the new Hampton Inn near the police station. Might be delayed by the slow construction pace/sale of the high-end condos behind the Hampton. If you are coming for track season, it might be worth your while to take a trip down to Albany to check out the eponymous Dale Miller restaurant.

←

Thanks for the commentary. As far as Mexican restaurants -- I have two words for you . . . Filiberto Leon! I think his place is the best.

Anyway, it is interesting that there are a lot of openings. However, I think openings are always looking at capturing market share, enthusiasm, things getting better, etc., especially in a vacation, summer, tourist spot like Saratoga. For 6 weeks you've got monster captive audience. We hope it's a sign of things getting better of course, LOL.

I think Saratoga has lost some excellent spots, including Lanci's, Springwater Bistro, Paradiso, and 43 Phila. Any news on Paradiso opening again? I know many people thought 43 Phila was overpriced and not much.

Whoever ends up where Chez Sophie is has to be better than they've been. I was just checking out the Saratoga Life website and I think all of the reviews/comments -- except one -- were negative. Chez Sophie was deplorable. Regardless, I can see a need for some higher-end types, maybe fine dining. Outside of Prime, I don't know if there is really anything that his high-end, fine dining.

Eric

[ELA]

Table 8?

Thanks.

Eric

[markabauman]

8 Tables website