Lumiere

[Johnathon]

I am afraid I must disagree with you here dennpeck. West is more than capable of providing the same, if not better calibre of food and service as was available from the beginning. Lumiere is not reinventing any wheel but they are doing an excellent job of exposing Vancouver diners to delightful and respectfully treated local products. Feenie's may be a continuation and an answer to many things missing in the city, but it has nothing to do with the food at Lumiere.

Chef David Hawksworth is always present and is providing innovation when and where the diner allows him to do so. Lumiere, West and so many other fine and contemporary restaurants in Vancouver are at the mercy of a fickle palate. It is very difficult to carry gourmand delicacies like veal tongue, ris de veau or pig's trotters on any menu as most just don't realize what they are missing. Just because it is not on the menu does not mean that it cannot be done or asked for. But oh how I miss the sweetbreads on the menu and where is that divine "Terrine of Wild Game" gone to? David?

Chef Rob Feenie has come out with a couple of amazing plates for our tables over the years that were not on the menu and David Hawksworth continues to enlighten and challenge me with every new plate he presents to me. They are two different chefs at two different restaurants and who is "Best" is really irrelevant so long as they are always continuing to build on the Vancouver dining scene as one of the better scenes in the world.

If you do the math, most restaurants can and do turn 700-1000 plates a night at this caliber of food on a very busy night. Quality not quantity, and they both do very well. The rooms are roughly the same size (Lumiere is smaller) and the kitchens are very close in size. From what I have seen though, West has a smaller kitchen staff than Lumiere. But you might know this better than I, as if the name is who I think it is... don't you work in the kitchen at Lumiere? Are you not the one who took second place behind West's Mark Perrier at the Black Box Competition at The Dubrulle Culinary Institute last year?

I will be at Lumiere for dinner on Friday night and I am really looking forward to dining there again. It has been a while since my last visit to the dining room for the Santi Santamaria dinner but I have frequented the bar side lounge on a number of occasions. As I have said before, Rob Feenie is contributing so much to the Vancouver dining scene with Lumiere, the Lumiere bar lounge and now with Feenie's. More high-end options for this city which is constantly raising the bar of quality in the food service industry. I wish there were more chef/owners doing this here right now.

Hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Edited October 1, 2003 by Johnathon (log)

[Jinmyo]

Ha ha ha ha ha.

[Coop]

dennpeck: I hope you weren't using this forum to pimp a place you work at. If you do please let us know that you are obviously biased.

I myself hesitate to rave about my own friend's restaurant, because I think my judgement is clouded by our friendship.

As for the West v. Lumiere debate. How lucky we are to have 2 places that have such loyal fans (or employees, ha ha ha). I come down strongly on the West side, as the 3 meals I have had there have been without peer. I also have met Chef Hawksworth and find the guy very impressive. I also think Feenie may be a great guy, but I just can't get past his Food TV Canada persona.

[beans]

I hope you weren't using this forum to pimp a place you work at.

Others do in another regional forum! (Or is that all rumour??!!)

[annabel]

I agree with you Johnathon, to argue about who is 'best' is probably a waste of time, but to say as dennpeck does that "West have changed their format and haven't been able to provide the same caliber of food and service as they wear 2 years ago" is rubbish. If it were true, then surely West would not have been awarded 'Restaurant of the Year' just six months ago. The awards are controversial anyway, so that aside I can tell you that the changes at West earlier this year have not affected the quality of the food, or levels of service. I know from my own experience and there are plenty of reports on this site that will validate this. The shift has been towards focusing the cooking more on local ingredients, presenting a regional cuisine and dropping the French accents - it's a natural progression. In addition to that diners are not restricted in any way in terms of menu, they are empowered to choose from: two tasing menus, the a la carte menu or small plates selection - quite a challenge to execute so many choices as flawlessly as the brigade at West manage to do.

P.S. - I do have a personal connection to the restaurant, but I'm not pimping - just felt I had to speak out on this one!

[Coop]

Wether or not someone should use this forum to say great things about thier own place is open for debate, but to do it undercover stinks! If that is indeed what is happening here. dennpeck is innocent till proven guilty.

[Johnathon]

Very well said Coop.

We are indeed extremely fortunate to have these restaurants competing for imaginary titles. As diners, we win. Period. As a whole, the dining community and the food service industry only increase daily in quality and service by the competitive nature of the industry and the desire to do more for their chosen clientele.

[dennpeck]

Sorry that there is some sort of mix up regarding my identifacation goes but I don't work in restaurants here in Vancouver I actually work in the entertainment industry as such I have had the pleasure of eating at both of these restaurants. I didn't want to offend anyone and was not bashing West restaurant by any means, but just questioning there place as the Vancouver Magazines restaurant of the year. As I'm sure everyone knows the awards are rumoured to be quite prone to be not so much as an actual contest of sorts as it is a publicity of the local restaurants , which isn't all that bad. I just found it very strange that West would have won considering they changed there format so late in the year, if this was an actual contest. From what I hear from people I know in the industry Jack Eversal was considering selling West because it was losing money and wasn't as full as it needed to be, and there change in format was not a progression as annebel had pointed out but was an effort to change from something that financially didn't work to something more tuned to what the general public would accept here in Vancouver. Do I personally think that this was a change for the better? Foodwise no, but better for them to change and have them still with them in our city then lose what is a pretty good restaurant and staff. I do think that West is a good restaurant and by all means continue to go back again and again, but I think that the restaurant scene in vancouver is lacking and that gets back to my origal question Lumiere or West , I'm looking for opinions not hurt feelings or anything like that .

[Johnathon]

No mix up really, just an assumption being made that your nickname was short for Dennis Peckham who trained at Dubrulle and went on to the kitchen at Lumiere. There are always rumours swirling about awards being this and that and to coin a phrase from Coop "take it with a grain of fleur de sel". At the same time, every ounce of gossip usually has an equal amount of truth attached to it somewhere. There were many grumblings and rounds of applause when Lumiere had carried the title of ROTY for 4 years and now the same chirping is happening for West.

The fact is that they are both pinnacles of culinary contribution to the city of Vancouver and both deserve to be applauded for their efforts.

Subjective input from any and all who experience restaurant life is deeply appreciated on this site and we all benefit greatly by the feedback and opinions presented on this site. But they are all just individual subjective opinions. Some come off caring and gentle and others will use tongue-in-cheek humour and others will lash out. All opinions matter and none of them matter.

What matters most is the ability to read between the lines and find out what is happening in our local scenes and elsewhere, so we can best appreciate the experiences of others (especially from those in the industry) and use them as a guide to making the most of our dining dollar. At least that's what I am here for.

If you are looking for nothing other than an opinion on which is better, you may not find it. What you will find is an excellent contribution from many members of this site who gladly give their thoughts on the meals they have had. And if what I have read is even half true throughout this site, West is the "preferred" place to dine in Vancouver to enjoy the cuisine by David Hawksworth and his brigade.

Right now, I am in complete agreement with this nod to West and feel that their winning Restaurant of the Year was well deserved.

Edited October 2, 2003 by Johnathon (log)

[Johnathon]

NEWS FLASH:

For the second year running, the award for Best Fine Dining went to South Granville’s West Restaurant and Bar “David Hawksworth’s flavours and techniques are as precise as ever, making this refreshingly uncluttered room a mandatory stop for serious gastronauts.” Tim Pawsey, Where magazine.

[Steve Klc]

Gotta appreciate the timing of that announcement. Congratulations David and to all of you who get to enjoy him.

[v_wang]

i've never been to either of these places (i'm a torontonian, but last time in van i enjoyed Vij's and Raincity Grill and a host of other less $$$ places)

but i hope the Where mag thing isn't a big determinant here...Where magazine very obviously lavishes praise on restaurants that pony up the ad dollars.

[Jerry_A]

Welcome to the boards.

In the ongoing struggle for supremacy among Vancouver's dining community, West and Lumiere are almost always 1 & 2.

However, I have to say one of the best dining experiences I have had was at Vij's a few weeks ago. Great food, great atmosphere, and spectacular service. Maybe one day soon, the elite two will be shaken from their pedestals.

And then again maybe Moderne Burger will blow them all away tonight

[BCinBC]

This morning Global News carried a story on Lumiere, about how Rob Feenie was sent a letter from the City of Vancouver to take down his patio as it is not in accordance with City philosophy or something similar. (Incidentally Rob is going to comply, but he seemed right peeved that he had to bring in a landscape architect.) I tried to find a link on the Global site but to no avail. In a segue, they talked about how Remy Prasad formerly of CinCin opened a new restaurant Savoury Coast (as we all know).

The point is, the story ran at about 7:37 in the 7:30-8:00 segment. It led, among other things, the latest tragedies in Iraq. Is this a sign that, as someone mentioned on the Feenie's manager thread, Vancouver chefs are moving more into the limelight? Or that our media is becoming Americanized? (When was the last time that Q13 news did not start with Shooting in Everett, followed by Armed Standoff in Tacoma, followed by Cat Rescued from Tree in Queen Anne, followed by ... oh and there is a new leader of the Roman Catholic church. G'night everyone!) Thoughts?

[Stinky Cook]

This morning Global News carried a story on Lumiere,... as someone mentioned on the Feenie's manager thread, Vancouver chefs are moving more into the limelight?

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As long as people are interested/talk about something, it remains in the limelight.

[Chocoholic]

It was also in the Vancouver Sun paper this morning, with a mention on the front page actually. His Iron Chef win surely did wonders for his media popularity since it was the first thing mentioned in the article.

On another note, it is quite sad to see how this city stifles people in regulation. I grew up in Holland where every summer the center of my home town would be one big patio with every restaurant and cafe putting out chairs and tables. It makes for a very lively and vibrant city atmosphere. That is one thing I miss about not living there anymore, Vancouver's overly restrictive liquor laws, patio by-laws and whatnot make sitting outside in the summer with a cold beer not easy. I think if the city lightened up a bit in that respect it would do wonders for the summer amosphere in this city, not to mention tourism dollars that everyone is so keen on.

[BCinBC]

^ Hear hear Chocoholic! Get people out on patios and bring some life back to the city! Back in the day, we used to kill afternoons on the Kings Head patio or similar. What fun it is to drink beer in the sun - CoV please don't disallow this pleasure!

[Daddy-A]

Somebody oughta ask Latin Quarter if they want to team up with Feenies and fight this. How frickin' drakonian!

A.

[ssherwood]

ha ha.

this is just the tip of the iceberg. I've been fighting the city for two years over my patio at lucy mae brown.

"illegal furniture (in the form of patio umbrellas) has been in place and random inspections indicate they have been in place all year."

The city administrators, in their wisdom, have actually made patio umbrellas illegal. Not only the ones with corona logos, but the plain, simple and elegant umbrellas that protect us from the sun or (very rarely) the occasional downpour.

This city has a control issue. Every one of these regulations is designed to allow them to control operators when things aren't going according to their vision. There may be a litany of crap bars and 50 fights a night on granville street in their new 'entertainment district' but at least there's no umbrellas. Breath easy.

wow, looks like I've got some issues myself!

[janevm]

I think we should stage a protest. Set up tables and umbrellas and have lunch on the lawn at City Hall.

[peppyre]

Not a bad idea Jane! There is that beautiful lawn area that would make a great picnic spot. I'm sure there is someone that lives close enough to roll a BBQ over. And we would definitely need a couple of umbrella's. One that has the Corona logo and a plain elegant one.

hmmmm...something to think about...

[Daddy-A]

Not a bad idea Jane!  There is that beautiful lawn area that would make a great picnic spot.  I'm sure there is someone that lives close enough to roll a BBQ over.

I think you live the closest peppyre ... you or Vancouver Lee

A.

[nwyles]

There is a new "patio" cop at Cityhall. I don't know what all of his issues are but he certainly is not making any friends fast. We are set to have a meeting with a whole group of Cityhall people in the very near future to deal with some our patio issues. Some consistantancy in policies like umbrellas, patio awnings, garbage cans, flower pots, sandwich baord signs, heat lamps and wind blockers. It is not easy to deal with but I hope we can make some headway. Let me know when the sit in is happening !

[Andrew Morrison]

I'm glad to hear someone is being employed by the city for this...professional grief-givers rock.

[Badiane]

I'm sure there is someone that lives close enough to roll a BBQ over. 

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Of course then we would have to talk about the food...that could take a week or more...then there would be the shopping...and the prep...gosh, how about we all rally on the lawn of City Hall sometime around June 1st? I'd take a day off from my scintillatingly interesting job to be part of that! I have endless access to Laser printers...so if you need flyers, let me know!