Lucas Carton → Alain Senderens

[Mao]

I feel sorry for Lucas Carton, because I, Vivin and his wife had experienced such a superlative meal at Arpege a mere few hours earlier.  So going in our stomachs were largely full and our expectations of Paris’s reputed best establishments were already rather high.    

To be fair, there are aspects of LC that I genuinely like/find intriguing, notably that each dish should have a wine very clearly associated with it.  I mean I have seen this before and actually it is very well carried off at Babbo, but its use in a 3 star French rest seemed a rather assertive gesture to me, especially as I assume that at this level much of each restaurant’s PL is made by the propensity of whimsical, monied Americans showing up and ordering 1982 premier grand cru Bordeaux reds for the equivalent of the GDP per capita of most Less Developed Countries.  I got to try a 1990 Corton Charlemagne I had been lusting after for a decade.  The wine was not as moving and complex as I had hoped, but such is life.  And I am grateful that LC provided the opportunity to try.  Unfortunately, I must say that Lucas Carton only just edged out Taillevent as our least interesting meal.  There was very little that was wrong mind you. Like Tailevent, I can’t say that there was anything actually bad with the meal.  It was just that the food was merely very good, instead of being consistently great.  It should also be noted that one of us, Vivin’s wife, had a superb meal, so it can be done.  But for euros expended, stars awarded and reputation gained, more than one person in three should have a mind-bending meal.

As a physical space, LC is exquisite with stunning early 20th Cent art nouveau woodwork everywhere.  It’s a bit more of a formal experience certainly then Arpege.

I had the lobster over very thin pasta in a cream sauce and black truffles.  Like the chicken at Arpege, this was truffled to death -- no other odor or texture even had the chance of prevailing here. This came with the Corton Charlemagne.

Vivin had the overworked, slightly too thinly cut and a bit too overdone red snapper with capers, olives in olive oil with greens, while Vivin’s wife was smart enough to order a Foie Gras that had been cooked au jus and sauced with some sort of nut and pineapples.  This was great-crunchy, sweet and with the FG very buttery all at once.

This was accompanied by a great Sauterne. A totally balanced and brilliant dish.  Vivin’s dish was even less interesting than my lobster.

As a main dish, I order red snapper that came with some odd but virtually unedible carrots and other puréed veggies.  The fish was perfectly cooked, but also perfectly bland and dull.  Vivin had some yawning duck that was rather tasteless.  Vivin’s wife ordered scallops with black truffles with butter and a small white pasta.  Superb stuff with the butter a great rich foil for the fleshiness of the scallops.

We finished with 2 desserts, sinc e we were all gorged.  I order poached quinces that had been spiced by cloves, cinnamon and Tahitian vanilla.  The quinces were very hard with no clue of the 3 spices which were very evidently promenaded upon the plate.  Two bites and the rest was left.  I also had an excellent 1996 Tokai with the dessert.  I can’t recall Vivin’s dessert other that it involved an ice cream and brioche and was more consumed than my dish.

In the end it was a flat and disappointing evening for 2 and a great meal for 1.  While I am not sure that the Michelin system is all that reliable, 1 of 3 superb dishes would merit less in my limited experience of Paris.

[cabrales]

A recent lunch at Lucas-Carton was disappointing, despite an excellent appetizer dish and my appreciation, as a solo diner, of the availability of dish-based wine pairings. Note this was one of a number of visits over time to the restaurant. Despite my strong interest in Alain Senderens' cuisine, my take on L-C remains somewhat unfavorable, although it is stronger in my mind than certain other three-stars in Paris (incl. Taillevent).

The meal began with two amuses (there is usually one): (1) a nage of bulots (a type of sea item) with lemongrass and garlic (nice seasoning and inclusion of a tiny skewer of bulots with thin slices of zucchini adjacent to the nage), and (2) a cream-like concoction of sole (difficult to discern in the martini-glass-serving of this item) with strands of green apple and small diced orange skin (this item had a strong dairy connotation and texture, reminding one of the possibility of the use of cheese, although some unusual type of cream might have accounted for these effects) (served with a small fried piece of sole). So far, so good. An interesting set of amuses, although the sole dish was a bit stark for my subjective preferences.

I ordered a 1/2 order of the foie gras steamed in cabbage, a signature Senderens dish and literally an attempt to recreate the sensations of the first ever three-star dish I had in my life. I had not quite appreciated the lusciousness of the dish back then. This time around, I liked the slight crunchiness of the somewhat supple cabbage as it enveloped the fatty foie gras. I liked the utilization of fat, as the oils of the foie gras were availa2ble in the dish. I did not use the pepper and fleur de sel that were set forth separately on one part of the dish. This dish was served with a Jurancon molleux -- not what I would have subjectively chosen for the dish, although I respect Senderens' selections.

The disappointing part of the meal was the famed Duck Apicius (Canard Apicius roti au miel et aux epices, euro 49/person and served to 2 persons, requiring 50 minutes of preparation time). I had wanted to sample this dish for years. However, both services of the duck were significantly too sweet and blunt. In the first service, the breast was presented with three items: (1) a sweet turnip slice, which was on top of honey (not bad), (2) a puree of dates with mint and other items -- this was unduly dense, stark ans sweet, and (3) a puree of green apples with quince -- this too was not a good match for the duck. The duck was nothing special. To me, it resembled a more refined version of Chinese BBQ duck with ample honey draped over it (granted, the meat was more tender, the fat layer more interesting and the skin significantly more complex). However, this dish did not appeal to me. The second serving of the same duck's thighs atop a green salad was slightly better. However, the signifiant problem witih both servings was the unmoderated sweetness of the duck. This was exacerbated by the serving of the first item with a Banyuls, Cave de L'Etoile 1985 (it's 1985 currently, even though the 1983 was described on the menu). With the second course was a Banyuls Solera -- "Hors d'age" from Parce. Both Banyuls intensified the sweetness already unhelpful to the dish.

Dessert was a simple selection of ice creams --almond milk, verbena and pistachio.

The overall asssessment of the meal was impaired by the Canard Apicius, ironically. Overall, the service was good and the pouring of the wine was very generous. With each dish, one is supposed to get a glass of wine. However, the sommelieir kept on pouring, including with respect to the glass of 1993 Dom Perignon I ordered as an apertaif. I must have had at least two glasses, and yet was charged only for one. Also, the restaurant was kind and did not charge me for the second, uneaten portion of the Canard Apicius. Sadly, although not entirely unexpectedly given my subjective preferences, the Canard Apicius fell significantly short of what my own idealized notions of it had been. However, that dish is one that, for me, had to be sampled sooner or later.

While the Canard Apicius is not includeed in a very reasonably priced 73 euro lunch menu (with 3-4 selections for each of 3 courses), the foie gras with cabbage is included on that menu at this time.

[Bux]

the possibility of the use of cheese, although some unusual type of cream might have accounted for these effects

I've often found crème fraîche so nutty and cultured that I had suspected there was cheese in a dish.

served with a Jurancon molleux -- not what I would have subjectively chosen for the dish

I often prefer a red wine with hot foie gras unless the garnish is very sweet. Would your choice be sweet or dry and red or white. I've had some nice Jurançons, so I assume it's not just a preference for Sauternes, although it could be.

However, the signifiant problem witih both servings was the unmoderated sweetness of the duck.

Having recently returned from a trip where I experienced a level of sweetness not entirely to my subjective taste, but at the hands of chefs talented enough to make me attempt to put my subjectivity on hold, I may understand your position. I know you haven't dined at El Bulli or any of the starred places in Catalunya, but I seem to recall you writing about the Fat Duck in the UK. Did you find the food there to be sweet?

[Beachfan]

I've been to Lucas Carton three times, all for the prix fixe lunch. One time it was ok (I had the duck, but I don't like duck, so I blamed myself), the other two it was very, very nice. Excellent in fact. Also excellent treatment of my vegetarian wife.

Perhaps there are restaurants where, because you are ordering a bargain lunch, the experience is better because the value factors into the enjoyment.

I find the room at LC so splendid that if I just had a glass of wine, I'd be pretty happy.

[lizziee]

Sadly, I have to agree with Cabrales that the duck Apicius is a shadow of what it once was. The first time I had it, it was extraordinary. The crunch of the coriander in the skin was a remarkable sensation - such a jolt of spice that there was just a hint of the sweetness. The last time, about a year ago, that I had the duck Apicus it was awful. It was cloyingly sweet and dripped with honey.

My best meals at Lucas Carton, in recent years, have been at lunch ordering the prix fixe menu, which is a bargain at a three star in Paris. One dish, that was a standout, was a pigeon tart with Moroccan spices. By the way, right across from Lucas Carton is a wonderful wine store that specializes in Armagnac, Chartreuse Tarragon (the only place that I have found that sells it) and other digestifs. Definitely worth checking out.

[Sandra Levine]

Cabrales, you made feel as if I were there.

I haven't yet eaten in the restaurant, but always stop by to gape at the room (remember, I am as interested in architecture as I am in food, and the space is significant in that regard.)

Thanks for the wonderful post. I'm sorry you were disappointed by the dish that you had looked forward to for so long, but often, the expectation surpasses the realization.

[cabrales]

Bux -- Despite restaurants' tendencies to choose a Sauterne or another sweet wine with foie gras, I would not have chosen a sweet wine. I thought the Jurancon moelleux tended to detract from the refreshing aspects of the cabbage. I would have chosen one of the classic white Burgundies, but that is a very subjective assessment that would not be shared by many.

When Soba and I were at Gramercy Tavern, I recommended a glass of Banyuls with a seared foie gras dish that featured a cherry sauce. The dining room team member indicated it was a more interesting choice than a Sauternes when I suggested it. I'm not sure Soba necessarily liked it, although he was not drinking much, however. With cherries and foie gras, I have chosen Banyuls on several occasions.

I would also like to highlight that, despite the unfavorable assessment of the intrinisc merits for me of the Canard Apicius, sampling it was a process that was intensely pleasureful. Sometimes a meal can only be evaluated in the context of the subjective quirks and history a diner associates with the applicable restaurant and/or dish, and Lucas-Carton and the Canard Apicius have a special, warm place in my heart. That continues today.

Sandra -- With your interest in architecture, Grand Vefour could also be interesting. A less apparent destination with architectural interest would be Ducasse's Plaza Athenee; the dining room is a mix of classicism (walls of the restaurant are classical, with chandeliers, etc.) and modernism (with numerous updated designs incorporated -- see detailed description under the restaurant).

[Sandra Levine]

Yes, Cabrales, Paris is full of architectural as well as gastronomic delights, sometimes on the same site.

[vivin]

Cabrales,

thanx for the report. My main dish was Duck Apicius as well and it fell short of expectatations.

The room is beautiful (although not quite awe inspiring as Le Grand Vefour) and the service attentive if slightly stand offish.

On the other hand, one of my co workers had a splendid meal there two weeks ago.

vivin.

[cabrales]

My main dish was Duck Apicius as well and it fell short of expectatations.

vivin -- When you have a chance, could you consider describing your observations on the dish?

[vivin]

It was a while ago and the duck was the worst part of the meal for me, making it especially hazy in my mind.

There were sliced pieces of duck with honey on them that were rubbery and tasteless. The only good part was a leg that looked like it had been cooked to a char on the outside. It was sweet and spicy at the same time. In a very oriental way. Good but not very good or outstanding.

sorry, that is about all that I recall.

[cabrales]

In a very oriental way.

vivin -- The Asian connotations may have been derived, in part, from the use of the Asian fish sauce nuoc nam (spelling). I wonder if the Apicius recipe from which Senderens derived inspiration (in a good sense, and not the copying sense in the context of other threads) for this dish contained garum. Have members tasted garum, and where can it be purchased (if anywhere) in an authentic form?

[cabrales]

I'd appreciate members' input on whether another of Senderens' signature dishes, the lobster with vanilla creation, is worth sampling.

[cabrales]

The upstairs level of Lucas-Carton is for members of an association called "Le Cercle". Have members dined there (I have not)?

[Jon Tseng]

Took the opportunity of a business trip to paris to i) nick as many free papers as I could from the Eurostar magazine rack ii) finally do the whole paris three-star-worshipful-food-groupie-thing. Armed with a credit card, a map and a booking helpfully secured by magnolia at a week's notice, I pitched up at Lucas Carton a shade past nine just in time for a slice of history and a slight disappointment.

The room's actually quite nice - mirrors, pale wood and all that. Relaxing and well lit and uncacophanous in the way that Gordon Ramsays in not. But ouch! do they charge for it. Now I know it's not the done thing to bitch about prices in three star joints (if you have to worry about the price you shouldn't be there blah blah) but even for someone well anaesthetised by the menu at RHR, the carte was a shock. Most irritatingly, the lobster a la vanille which I was chasing down was the most expensive thing bar the caviar (120 euros the crustacean). The whole bill was 217 (ish) for three courses and mineral water - which is all I shall say about the money.

Tasters were a creamy seafood nage with bits of clam - exceedingly savoury - and a panfried prawn matched with a prawn and pork wonton. Which was all very nice but after all, it was a prawn wonton.

Starter was panfried foie gras with liquorice figs, liquorice and figs. Fairly jolly - the powdered liquorice had an evocative sweet-bitter note. Unfortunately I seemed to have drawn the short straw and was dished up two stubby end-lobes, whose uneven shape left them overdone with none of the melting gooeyness you get inside a nice thick tranche. Also happened to noticed the French bloke who ordered the same dish got a nice thick slice which looked decided larger than mine. Poo.

The lobster came perched on a bed of raw spinach and a pile of glassy oriental noodles, bathed in a frothy vanilla sauce. The lobster was slightly overdone but aside it did exactly what it said on the tin. The vanilla sauce was either a heavily reduced cream sauce or a beurre-blanc-esque emulsion. Although did have a really vanilla kick from a generous lacing of seeds, with a cream rather than a stock base it seemed to lacked body.

Overall, though, I wasn't quite convinced by the whole vanilla-lobster thing (which has since entered culinary folklore). Personally I blame Walls. After years of eating radioactive-yellow vanilla ice-cream, the main associations of the vanilla were custard and sweets. Which generally don't go with Brittany lobster, so chalk another one up to the famed Brain-Palate connection. Having said that the sauce infused the glassy noodles with a really strong flavour - they could actually have done quite well without the lobster to get in the way.

Which is when it occured to me I was in the slightly bizarre positiion if sitting in a three-star restaurant eating a slightly tarted up version of hong kong lobster noodle with custard. Basically, Spag Lob.

Anyhow, pudding was a perfectly competant chocolate sorbet with cinnanon biscuits, orange cream and confit orange peel (which was tough). Service was solicitous and a the maitre d was very nice about asking me to put my jacket back on when I took it off.

Other than that what can I say? Reinventing lobster noodle and serving won tons in a three star situation may have been daring and innovative in the 70's during Mr. Senderens' heyday, but nowadays it just comes across as an attempt to persuade overpaid businessmen to part with their cash in pursuit of past glories.

That'll be me then ;-)

cheerio

J

PS For those interested in a slightly different perspective read the following link, although I personally fail to see the "True genius" in selling slightly overlooked lobster noodle, unless it be the genius in making money...

A slightly different perspective

[Bux]

The room's actually quite nice - mirrors, pale wood and all that. Relaxing and well lit in the way that Gordon Ramsays in not, but ouch, do they charge for it.

I had two dinners and a lunch in the UK recently. The restaurants were upscale and well lit which is more than I can say for New York restaurant which always look to me as if they are skimping on electricity and encouraging diners to dress down as they can't be seen anyway.

Unfortunately I seemed to have drawn the short straw and got give two end lobes, whose uneven shape left them overdone with none of the melting interior you get with a nice thick tranche.  Noticed the french bloke who ordered the same dish got a nice thick slice instead of two ends.

This is a serious issue. In a restaurant where the tab is going to run some two hundred euros without wine, you'd think every piece of meat, fish and vegetable would be of the top quality and that scraps would go into the forcemeats. Of necessity the bistros may need to economize and the regulars might understandingly get the first cuts, but in a luxury restaurant with three stars there's no excuse for this.

I'm often a defender of French cuisine, restaurants and chefs, but this is the sort of complaint that might have made a good point in a recent Financial Times article about a decline in dining in France. Here's the thread Robert Brown started on the article.

[Tonyfinch]

but this is the sort of complaint that might have made a good point in a recent Financial Times article about a decline in dining in France.

But on what basis do you, or Nick Lander on the other thread,assume that it wasn't ever thus? Was there really a time when everyone would have got the juicy slab of foie and no-one would have been palmed off with off cuts? I can't answer for sure but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe people are now much more aware of what they can and should expect for the megabucks they're paying and less willing to be fooled by smoke and mirrors.

[magnolia]

but this is the sort of complaint that might have made a good point in a recent Financial Times article about a decline in dining in France.

But on what basis do you, or Nick Lander on the other thread,assume that it wasn't ever thus? Was there really a time when everyone would have got the juicy slab of foie and no-one would have been palmed off with off cuts? I can't answer for sure but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe people are now much more aware of what they can and should expect for the megabucks they're paying and less willing to be fooled by smoke and mirrors.

Tony's right. Furriners have been complaining for years and years that they have been treated shabbily in one way or another, so sadly I don't think anything's changed - except now restaurants, particularly at the high level, should know better - that their clients are no longer just hoi polloi and rich & famous, but also an average joe or josephine who happens to have made a bit of dosh and is spending it in different ways, i.e. on food and wine, than he / she might have done in latter years. Said clients are now more sophisticated, well-traveled, and expect more, and if the quality of a dish served to a non-French person at the ne plus ultra of restaurants that LC believes it is, is so noticeably different from that which the 'native' receives, that's a scandale. But it's not a new scandale.

[Gavin Jones]

Mr. Senderens' heyday,  but nowadays it just comes across as an attempt to persuade overpaid businessmen to part with their cash in pursuit of past glories.

I remember getting drunk in the basement of Alistair Little's restaurant about 10 years ago & leafing through some of his cookbooks.

I picked up a volume of Senderens' (with lurid picture of translucent rabbit pizza on front) and Alistair Little said that it was the one book he'd never found any use for - I paraphrase - the grappa may have distorted the exact locution.

I'm sure if Little had wanted to reproduce a lobster noodle dish he would have nicked it from round the corner in Gerrard St.

I notice that Lucas Carton is also the favoured 3* of cigar aficianado - what more critical comment does one need.

[Bux]

but this is the sort of complaint that might have made a good point in a recent Financial Times article about a decline in dining in France.

But on what basis do you, or Nick Lander on the other thread,assume that it wasn't ever thus? Was there really a time when everyone would have got the juicy slab of foie and no-one would have been palmed off with off cuts? I can't answer for sure but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe people are now much more aware of what they can and should expect for the megabucks they're paying and less willing to be fooled by smoke and mirrors.

Tony, you're right. I don't know that someone wasn't always getting palmed off with odd or off cuts either in France, or anywhere else for that matter. In fact, I winder if at one time in my life I may even have considered that a price to pay for being a clueless foreigner. What's happening here is classic. Even though I've disputed the author, I'm left with a nagging feeling that gastro touring in France is not as rewarding as it used to be and thus I'm open to accept these criticisms. As you pointed out earlier, much of my diminished enthusiasm is due to the fact that I am not so easily impressed for several reasons. I start each tour from a better place. First my home port offers a lot more in terms of good food than it did when I first went to France as a student. Second, I have developed a fair amount of sophistication and knowledge about food in the forty odd years since my first visit to Paris. Finally, I'm paying a hell of a lot more at the places I frequent now than I did in my youth. It's probably understandable if I have become a bit more demanding and critical.

On the whole, I have found the French to be wonderful hosts. Over the years I've been well treated and more often than not with exceptional grace. There are always exceptions and there are always other people's stories. Of the latter, one is most likely to hear and remember the bad.

[Bistro Bob]

We've had two totally opposite experiences at Lucas Carton. We had a terrific lunch about three years ago. We ordered off the relatively inexpensive (about 60 euros) prix-fixe luncheon menu. The three-course selection was limited but every item was delicious, exhibiting the creative use of spices that Sendrens is noted for. Service was excellent, and the sommilier's suggestion of a '92 Mercury "La Framboisiere" for only 35 euros was just perfect.

Wewere so pleased with our luncheon experience that we chose Lucas Carton for our "splurge" dinner a year and a half later. What a huge disappointment! The service was bush league - no one was unfriendly but everyone was very uptight. I won't get into the details but several so-called classic dishes were mediocre or worse. The "Canard Apicius" was a duck taffy apple. I also had the unique (for me) experience of spending more on my appetizer than I was paying for a night in my hotel. My guess is that the "B" team was in the kitchen that night, but for $200 plus per head there shouldn't be anything but "A" players in the place.

[Beachfan]

I've had two great lunches at L-C and have heard of several poor dinners. I wonder whether it's an exception to the rule espoused on e-gullet that dinner shows off the kitchen better.

[Michael Laiskonis]

I know a young cook who is currently doing a series of stages in France. He went through the kitchen at Trotter's and in the last six months has worked at Jean Bardet in Tours followed by a stint at Lucas-Carton. I will try to contact him and encourage him to share his experience. I'm sure is perspective would be of great interest to many of us!

[marcus]

Lucas Carton currently only receives 16 from the Gaut Millau which is unprecedented as far as I know for a 3 star restaurant. (Tour d'Argent which is 2 star receives a 15 and I can personally attest that it deserves no more.) I don't fully understand their French review, but there is a reference to the restaurant now existing to serve foreigners sitting side by side, with the implication that the French don't go there any longer. This could explain the apparent anomaly being commented upon of Lucas Carton being better a lunch than at dinner. I would guess that, considering its location and distinguished premises, that it does retain some French business clientele at lunchtime.

[cabrales]

marcus -- See the discussion under the Gault-Millau 2002 thread (unlinked):

another big difference between the two guides is that where Michelin  still has La Tour d'Argent and Paul Bocuse at 2 and 3 stars respectively,Gault Millau has relegated them both to "institutions", labelling La Tour d'Argent as "pathetique"...That can only be a good move as both are well past their sell by date.

I bought a G-M over the weekend, and noted the discordant treatment of certain chefs who have historically played a role in shaping French cuisine:

-- Bocuse: As Stephen noted, Bocuse's restaurant is designated an "Institution", with no numerical rating assigned. The explanatory page on the utilization of the G-M guide indicates: "This designation is used for one world-famous restaurant that cannot enter into any category". Some G-M commentary on Bocuse follows (rough translation): "To paraphrase [bocuse], we say that there are only two types of cuisine, the good and the bad. And that of Bocuse is good. It recognizes [food] products, the [method of] cooking is perfect and it's impeccable. . . . The personnel faithful to Bocuse are nice, well brought up and know that the restaurant is a celebratory place for those who choose to go there. And they nurture this joy of living."

-- Roger Verge -- Surprisingly, this newly-two-starred (and formerly one-, two- and three-starred) Michelin chef does not even have an entry for his restaurant at Mougins. His hotel is listed as "Le Moulin de Mougins", but that would not ordinarily eliminate the restaurant from the receipt of a rating. See Ducasse's "La Bastide de Moustiers" on the immediately following page in G-M or Pourcels' Jardin des Sens in Montpellier, which have separate entries for the restaurant and the hotel facilities.

-- Senderens -- This three-starred Michelin chef only has a 16/20. Some G-M commentary follows (rough translation): "Lucas Carton, la Tour d'Argent, Grand Vefour -- how many restaurants have given rise to such fantasy upon the mere mention of their magical names? . . . How many chefs have, like Senderens, made culinary history? One wants to be able to sense again on the plate the 19.5/20 of fifteen years ago, but the current situation suggests this should be categorized as a historical monument . . . . Reread the G-M of the 80's and be persuaded -- even though that does not affect anything today -- that Alain Senderens is a great chef." (Note the numerical rating in G-M is indicated to be for the food alone. It might be another guide that accords weights as earlier suggested.)

Very harsh words for Senderens, given that his cuisine today is, for me, better than Bocuse's cuisine today. :confused: If G-M is categorizing Bocuse as an "institution", it should not completely ignore Verge's restaurant and still be giving Senderens this type of abuse. Bocuse could be viewed as having a special place in French culinary history; however, the treatment of the three described chefs does not appear even-handed.