Otto Enoteca Pizzeria

[Nathan]

I have to give a shoutout to an off the menu pasta dish they're serving right now...its the best pasta I've had in years. literally.

oriecchette with crumbled sausage and sauteed kale. I'm pretty sure the oriecchette is cooked in chicken stock and its definitely finished with butter. incredibly simple and incredibly delicious. combined with the contorini and the superb cured duck breast plate....it made a meal which to me was perhaps the most Italian like of any that I've had in NY.

as a sidenote: they apparently really like those pizzas in L.A.:

http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo...-headlines-food

Edited March 16, 2007 by Nathan (log)

[slkinsey]

Yea. Orecchiette with bitter greens (often also with sausage) is a very typical Puglese dish. Simple and delicious. Most often seen in America as orecchiette with sausage and broccoli rabe. I've made it at home many times. I doubt they cook the pasta in chicken stock the whole way, but it wouldn't be unusual to finish the dish by cooking the pasta, sausage and greens together in a saute pan with a ladle of chicken stock. Personally, I like to add a pinch of crushed red pepper and a drizzle of raw olive oil off the heat, but a knob of butter, while not the traditional fat of Puglia, certainly wouldn't hurt.

[weinoo]

It's a staple in our home as well. In the true style of povera, a ladleful of the pasta water is used here instead of stock (especially if I don't happen to have any stock on hand).

As Buford pointed out in Heat, butter plays a big role in lots of finishing sauces for pasta at the Batali restaurants - which you would definitely see more in northern Italy than in Puglia.

Some parmesan wouldn't hurt either!

[mukki]

as a sidenote: they apparently really like those pizzas in L.A.:

http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo...-headlines-food

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I'm not sure if you meant Mozza's or Otto's pizza by "those pizzas", but I'd just like to say that the two pizzas are completely different. I believe Otto's is grilled and it's pretty flat, with no large air holes to speak of. Mozza's is the exact opposite with a puffy crust and much lighter texture.

I went to Otto last December and found the pizza pretty disappointing. Spaghetti carbonara, on the other hand, was wonderful and that olive oil gelato with tangerine sorbet was one of the best things I've ever put in my mouth!

Wish I were in NY right now to try the orecchiette.

[Nathan]

oh they're different at Mozza?

my mistake. the descriptions of the toppings are identical (i.e. the funghi and taleggio, etc.)

[mukki]

oh they're different at Mozza?

my mistake.  the descriptions of the toppings are identical (i.e. the funghi and taleggio, etc.)

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Yeah, I think some of the toppings are the same or similar (Mozza had lardo for a while), but the crusts in particular were developed separately by the respective chefs (Silverton and Batali).

[Nathan]

for some reason I was thinking about Otto on the subway this morning.

it's an interesting restaurant.

Bruni would be crucified (somewhat understandably) if he gave it two stars...but that's what Grimes gave it with scarcely a murmur....

If you follow a specific ordering pattern, it's most definitely possible to have a two-star meal there....but I'd daresay that most diners do not have a two-star meal. It's simply not a two-star restaurant...but I've also eaten there more than any restaurant in NY (excepting delivery from Grand Sichuan).

the Lazio-style pizzas are not to NY taste...but a couple of them are quite good...the lardo and the guanciale when it's offered.

the pastas are mostly not great...with occasional superlative exceptions...but they're a bargain at $9 (much better than the $9 pasta offered at any corner pizza place). but for Batali/Ladner pasta on the cheap...Lupa is definitely the way to go.

as with Lupa, the meats are terrific.

so are many of the contorini, and none are objectionable.

the gelato is simply the best in NY.

combined with one of the best Italian wine lists in NY....and some excellent cheeses...served with various condiments...honey and jams like you'll often find in Italy...

you can have an excellent meal if you order as follows:

carne, lardo pizza, contorini, cheese, gelato...and lots of wine. house fruit-infused grappa to finish.

at a low price point.

but if you order any other way (other than simply stopping in for cheese or gelato and wine -- which I highly recommend)...you'll probably be disappointed.

another thing, eat at the bar. the general waitstaff is inexperienced (the bartenders are not). the only caveat is that some of the bartenders (who've all been great to me over the years) perhaps enjoy a little too much humor at the expense of tourists and B&T. I've seen them be pretty snotty when someone walked in and ordered a "Shiraz" or left the quartino at the bar not realizing it accompanied their glass.

it's not a place I take out-of-towners too...but it's my go-to for a simple, superb meal (if you know what to order) without any stress or thought.

[flinflon28]

for some reason I was thinking about Otto on the subway this morning.

it's an interesting restaurant.

Bruni would be crucified (somewhat understandably) if he gave it two stars...but that's what Grimes gave it with scarcely a murmur....

If you follow a specific ordering pattern, it's most definitely possible to have a two-star meal there....but I'd daresay that most diners do not have a two-star meal.  It's simply not a two-star restaurant...but I've also eaten there more than any restaurant in NY (excepting delivery from Grand Sichuan).

the Lazio-style pizzas are not to NY taste...but a couple of them are quite good...the lardo and the guanciale when it's offered.

the pastas are mostly not great...with occasional superlative exceptions...but they're a bargain at $9 (much better than the $9 pasta offered at any corner pizza place).  but for Batali/Ladner pasta on the cheap...Lupa is definitely the way to go.

as with Lupa, the meats are terrific.

so are many of the contorini, and none are objectionable.

the gelato is simply the best in NY.

combined with one of the best Italian wine lists in NY....and some excellent cheeses...served with various condiments...honey and jams like you'll often find in Italy...

you can have an excellent meal if you order as follows:

carne, lardo pizza, contorini, cheese, gelato...and lots of wine.  house fruit-infused grappa to finish.

at a low price point.

but if you order any other way (other than simply stopping in for cheese or gelato and wine -- which I highly recommend)...you'll probably be disappointed. 

another thing, eat at the bar.  the general waitstaff is inexperienced (the bartenders are not).  the only caveat is that some of the bartenders (who've all been great to me over the years) perhaps enjoy a little too much humor at the expense of tourists and B&T.  I've seen them be pretty snotty when someone walked in and ordered a "Shiraz" or left the quartino at the bar not realizing it accompanied their glass. 

it's not a place I take out-of-towners too...but it's my go-to for a simple, superb meal (if you know what to order) without any stress or thought.

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I've only recently started going to Otto this year (I avoided that space because it always seemed too crowded and had heard mixed things) but my visits have been pretty good. For the price point the food is more than passable but ordering cautiously is definitely key.

I've also discovered some nice wines there that I otherwise would never have stumbled across.

Going on Sunday as soon as dinner service starts before it gets too crowded has proven to be a decent strategy so far.

That olive oil gelato is something else. Love it.

Edited June 14, 2007 by flinflon28 (log)

[foodhunter]

While I've eaten at the restaurant a number of times, I actually order delivery from Otto at least once or twice a week and have done so consistently for at least the past year. While delivery is definitely not the same experience as dining there, I like how it frees up a meal for something else (Lupa, for example) while still ensuring I get my regular Otto fix. Being able to get their seasonal ramps pizza delivered straight to my door is, for me, one of the greatest pleasures of living downtown.

[sucio sanchez]

This is my go to place for a cheap solo lunch during the weekday. Ditto on the gelato. Had GROM last week, while it was delicious, I don't think I'd rush back anytime. I'll take Otto or even Cha Cha's. In and out no fuss no muss.

I like the spaghetti carbonara here as well.

[flinflon28]

    I like the spaghetti carbonara here as well.

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I think they do a really nice job with this dish too.

[weinoo]

Had a great meal at Otto last night, and also had perhaps the worst Negroni I've ever tasted.

Now the bartender was a guy I've seen behind the stick since Otto's been open - I'm not a regular, so there's no way he knows me, but when I asked how they made their Negronis, he gave me a snide answer (not too surprising - see Nathan's post of 6/14), sort of an "anyway I want it." Asked if they had Carpano - got a no, so I ordered a Beefeater Negroni - rocks. It came like they must make their martinis (well, I hope they use dry vermouth in their martinis) - about 8 parts gin to 1 each of sweet vermouth and Campari. Absolutely friggin' awful. Shoulda said something - didn't. Sometimes I just don't feel like it's worth the hassle.

Now, I'm sorry, I know this is an enoteca, and it's all about the wine (the couple of quartinos we put away with dinner were delicious, btw), but come on - you're a bartender, you're in a "traditional" Italian place, you have a full bar, and you can't make a friggin' Negroni. And you're a douche on top of it. And I overtipped. Aaargh.

Sorry for the rant. Did I mention the food was great? Salami with a hint of fennel and orange. Sweet corn and fregola. Rock shrimp with ceci and chilis. Summer squash. Mussels and roasted peppers. Meatball pizza. Etc. Etc.

[Fat Guy]

That experience is entirely consistent with the Batali-Bastianich way of doing things. Every place they've opened has had excellent food and hit-or-miss service. Hit-or-miss as in, it can be excellent (right up there with the best service in town), or it can be just awful (condescending, self-important and incompetent), and they really don't seem to think it's a priority to address that inconsistency. It will probably take some sort of economic contraction to get them to wake up and say, hmm, we better focus on the service end of the business. Then again, their places may be recession-proof, because they tend to be priced so reasonably.

[weinoo]

That experience is entirely consistent with the Batali-Bastianich way of doing things. Every place they've opened has had excellent food and hit-or-miss service. Hit-or-miss as in, it can be excellent (right up there with the best service in town), or it can be just awful (condescending, self-important and incompetent), and they really don't seem to think it's a priority to address that inconsistency. It will probably take some sort of economic contraction to get them to wake up and say, hmm, we better focus on the service end of the business. Then again, their places may be recession-proof, because they tend to be priced so reasonably.

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And they're MARIO...but I totally agree - sometimes the food service last night was borderline comic - especially when 3 of us were stuffed into a 2 top and the place was packed...I've come to expect that kind of service in the B/B places...however, at the bar at Lupa, they can make some damn good cocktails, and they sure as hell know how to make a Negroni (and I think a tip of the hat should go to Jason Denton, Batali's partner in that venture!).

[Nathan]

I only drink wine or grappa at Otto....that's just the rule.

overall, the best bartending in the Batali empire is at Del Posto. seriously.

I think one of the sharpest divides between regular/everyone-else customer service in the city is in Batali restaurants. they treat regulars very very very well....but others...

[weinoo]

I only drink wine or grappa at Otto....that's just the rule.

overall, the best bartending in the Batali empire is at Del Posto.  seriously.

I think one of the sharpest divides between regular/everyone-else customer service in the city is in Batali restaurants.  they treat regulars very very very well....but others...

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Pretty true, Nathan...probably why I like Lupa best...and even though we used to be regulars at 'inoteca (a semi-Batali place in my book), the place is such a madhouse that we pretty much avoid it except for late lunch on weekends and early dinners early in the week.

However, shouldn't an experienced bartender at a place like Otto, know how to make a Negroni - this is not some obscure cocktail.

Edited August 8, 2007 by weinoo (log)

[Nathan]

agreed.

I'll note that despite the general consensus that a Negroni is equal parts...I've seen a number of cocktail books that list sharply divergent recipes (I just saw one that was 3-1-1 plus soda water!)....it's a shame.

(I've never seen soda water used in Italy in a Negroni but I have seen the proportions vary).

[LPShanet]

That experience is entirely consistent with the Batali-Bastianich way of doing things. Every place they've opened has had excellent food and hit-or-miss service....

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While I agree with your comment about the hit or miss service, I think you're being overly kind about the excellent food. Babbo and Lupa certainly have excellent food, but to say the same as a general statement about Otto seems VERY generous. They have a few excellent items and frequent mediocrity with most of the others.

[LPShanet]

overall, the best bartending in the Batali empire is at Del Posto.  seriously.

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I guess it's my day to dissent... I was at Del Posto recently, and found the bartenders there so incompetent that I was shocked they were working at ANY restaurant, let alone one of that supposed caliber. There may be plenty of very solid ones on their staff, but the ones that night were clueless. And I'm not talking about esoteric cocktail requests or anything out of the ordinary.

The main bartender in question that night started out by leaving the bar unattended for over 10 mintues while he took a smoke break, and left no one but barbacks behind the bar. So no one waiting could order. When he returned, I asked a question about a wine on the "by the glass" list (I asked a question about the region it was from), and not only did he not know its region, but he happily told me that he didn't even know what COUNTRY it was from!!!!!!! Here's a hint for him: GUESS ITALY. It's a Batali joint...even if you're totally incompetent, I'd say you're in pretty good shape if you guess that a wine on the list is from Italy.

The other bartender that night managed to forget our entire food order and never put it in, then he didn't apologize, and later poured a glass of white wine when a barolo had been ordered. I'm not sure which is worse: not knowing what country a frequently ordered wine is from, or thinking that barolo is a white wine.

[Nathan]

overall, the best bartending in the Batali empire is at Del Posto.  seriously.

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I guess it's my day to dissent... I was at Del Posto recently, and found the bartenders there so incompetent that I was shocked they were working at ANY restaurant, let alone one of that supposed caliber. There may be plenty of very solid ones on their staff, but the ones that night were clueless. And I'm not talking about esoteric cocktail requests or anything out of the ordinary.

The main bartender in question that night started out by leaving the bar unattended for over 10 mintues while he took a smoke break, and left no one but barbacks behind the bar. So no one waiting could order. When he returned, I asked a question about a wine on the "by the glass" list (I asked a question about the region it was from), and not only did he not know its region, but he happily told me that he didn't even know what COUNTRY it was from!!!!!!! Here's a hint for him: GUESS ITALY. It's a Batali joint...even if you're totally incompetent, I'd say you're in pretty good shape if you guess that a wine on the list is from Italy.

The other bartender that night managed to forget our entire food order and never put it in, then he didn't apologize, and later poured a glass of white wine when a barolo had been ordered. I'm not sure which is worse: not knowing what country a frequently ordered wine is from, or thinking that barolo is a white wine.

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wow! I haven't been there in about six months or so...they were competent then and had the best cocktails of any Batali bartenders I'd seen to that point....

[raji]

wow!  I haven't been there in about six months or so...they were competent then and had the best cocktails of any Batali bartenders I'd seen to that point....

I'm not sure if I had the same bartender in question, but I too was there a few months ago. I arrived late to my friend who had been there for 30 minutes already. We had seats right at the bar, and despite the questionable crowds, the dates and B&Ts, and amongst all the chaos, he still took quiet good care of us. We were only drinking wine and order different plates of cheeses and meats. He was the large jovial latin-looking fellow...

[LPShanet]

wow!  I haven't been there in about six months or so...they were competent then and had the best cocktails of any Batali bartenders I'd seen to that point....

I'm not sure if I had the same bartender in question, but I too was there a few months ago. I arrived late to my friend who had been there for 30 minutes already. We had seats right at the bar, and despite the questionable crowds, the dates and B&Ts, and amongst all the chaos, he still took quiet good care of us. We were only drinking wine and order different plates of cheeses and meats. He was the large jovial latin-looking fellow...

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Different guy. I'm guessing the two I dealt with were in danger of being canned, and may no longer be there, although I'm not rushing back to check. Plenty of other better meals to be had, even within Mario's empire.

[LPShanet]

overall, the best bartending in the Batali empire is at Del Posto.  seriously.

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I guess it's my day to dissent... I was at Del Posto recently, and found the bartenders there so incompetent that I was shocked they were working at ANY restaurant, let alone one of that supposed caliber. There may be plenty of very solid ones on their staff, but the ones that night were clueless. And I'm not talking about esoteric cocktail requests or anything out of the ordinary.

The main bartender in question that night started out by leaving the bar unattended for over 10 mintues while he took a smoke break, and left no one but barbacks behind the bar. So no one waiting could order. When he returned, I asked a question about a wine on the "by the glass" list (I asked a question about the region it was from), and not only did he not know its region, but he happily told me that he didn't even know what COUNTRY it was from!!!!!!! Here's a hint for him: GUESS ITALY. It's a Batali joint...even if you're totally incompetent, I'd say you're in pretty good shape if you guess that a wine on the list is from Italy.

The other bartender that night managed to forget our entire food order and never put it in, then he didn't apologize, and later poured a glass of white wine when a barolo had been ordered. I'm not sure which is worse: not knowing what country a frequently ordered wine is from, or thinking that barolo is a white wine.

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wow! I haven't been there in about six months or so...they were competent then and had the best cocktails of any Batali bartenders I'd seen to that point....

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To be fair, I didn't have cocktails that night...I usually leave that for more cocktail-centric places. Then again, with so little wine knowledge, it didn't bode well for drinks requiring actual skill.

[Shmily]

For the second time in a few months we stoped at Otto to have gelato last night. For the second time...what a disappointment. They used to have amazing gelato...I had sweet corn, mascarpone and the chocolate (actually Mexican chocolate, I think because the waiter had no idea). The sweet corn and mascarpone had almost no flavor and the entire dish was grainy rather than creamy. My husband had the chocolate and pistachio and coconut...his pistachio and coconut also had almost no flavor and had the same strange texture.....I remember the gelato as intensely flavored and just amazing. Does anyone know how I can e mail either Mr Batali at his office or someone at Otto? Their Web site does not give any option to write to them. I am SO DISAPPOINTED...A formerly devoted Batali fan...

[Noodlebot]

I went about 3 weeks ago and didn't have this experience at all. Had the olive oil and sweet corn and loved both, as usual.