Union Square Greenmarket

[huiray]

I was looking at the GrowNYC Greenmarket webpage and it reminded me of this discussion.

If you could bear with me, let me ask additionally: How does the stuff you find at the Union Square "Farmers' Market"/Greenmarket differ, if it does, from the other stuff you find in other "Farmers' Markets"/NYC Greenmarkets in other places [see that list on that webpage]? Winter versus Summer? Types of stuff - e.g. one might expect that more "ethnic" stuff might be found at Greenmarkets catering to areas with more heavy "ethnic"/diverse populations^¶ (how about Jackson Heights, for example, or other places like Inwood or Tompkins Square) -- would that actually be true or can you find the same kinds of stuff at the Union Square market? That sort of thing - i.e. is the Union Square market the Best of the Best or is it just a Big Market, maybe with particular slants towards certain kinds of produce... I'm just curious, that's all, because I read here and there about how great the Union Square market is. Yes, I'm aware the place is the flagship market for GrowNYC and is the largest one in NYC (I presume).

[Just reading the lists of the named vendors does not tell me what exactly they offer - a grower with an Anglo-Saxon name might offer fresh Mexican or Chinese or Japanese or Italian veggies, for example. At my local farmer's markets around here I would find beautiful shisito peppers offered (all the time, in season) by a grower who otherwise grows perfectly typical USAmerican stuff, or lovely daikon from an Amish stand manned by folks with flowing beards and wearing the requisite hats, or the Caucasian couple who offers Indian & Chinese bittergourds and other such stuff including a particular red-stemmed variety of slender "choy sum" that I have never seen being offered elsewhere even in the local Chinese groceries]

How many of the winter greenmarkets are covered/indoors?

^¶ I dislike the "standard" use of the word "ethnic" - because German or English are also ethnicities, as examples - but I think the meaning here is understandable. But by all means mention the various produce from other European ethnic traditions to be found in the Greenmarket!

[Mjx]

. . . . How does the stuff you find at the Union Square "Farmers' Market"/Greenmarket differ, if it does, from the other stuff you find in other "Farmers' Markets"/NYC Greenmarkets in other places [see that list on that webpage]? . . . .

There's simply a lot more variety at the Union Square market than at others I've visited (I haven't seen them all, and it's been several months since I was back there, so there's a fair chance I'm overlooking something). In terms of specialty items (e.g. culturally specific/unique), they're not particularly astonishing, but you'll find a lot of the things that have become reasonably well-known to a clientele that is moderately aware of what's out there.

[weinoo]

If it's available at any of the greenmarkets, it will be available at Union Square.

The "ethnic" stuff you can find is the stuff that's growable fairly locally. Don't go looking for plantains, yuca, ginger root, etc. But epazote in the summer, all the Asian cabbages, Persian cucumbers, and so on, are available during their growing seasons.

[huiray]

OK, thanks.

[SobaAddict70]

Indoor "farmers' markets" carry a range of goods from around the globe. The Union Square greenmarket, as well as all "grow nyc" green markets in New York City, carry only products from within a certain limited geographic area; you won't see oranges, lemons, kiwis, grapefruits, mangoes, etc.

I prefer buying from USGM (and other farmers' markets within the grownyc system, if I'm able to get to them), because of the relationships you develop by seeing a vendor once or twice a week. Also, USGM is convenient to me, whereas Chelsea Market is farther west and would require a major schlep.

[SobaAddict70]

Is the biodynamic farm from upstate still selling? They specialized in cheese and bread and their old cheddars were amazing. The yoghurt was also delicious. Our son actually spent a week working on the farm as part of a school project...but I can never remember the name.

I assume you mean Hawthorne Valley Farms. Yes, they're still selling. They're also known for their kimchi and sauerkraut. I have a jar of the kimchi in the fridge, but haven't opened it yet. Might have some with leftover white-cut chicken for dinner tonight.

http://hawthornevalleyfarm.org/

[SobaAddict70]

so, I was there last weekend. should've updated this thread.

here's a pic of some golden turnips. I don't remember the name of the vendor, but they're usually located next to the Stokes Farm stand. they're known for their apples and root vegetables.

I think the lens on my camera was smudged, hence the "cloudy" appearance on this photo.

Market basket for this week (currently in progress): black radishes, free-range/organic/antibiotic-free chicken, unsalted butter, chicken eggs, heirloom potatoes (two kinds -- Adirondack blue potatoes and German butterball potatoes), carrots, mesclun lettuce, Honeycrisp apples, shallots, kimchi, and cow's milk ricotta cheese.

Weather dependent, I might make a trip tomorrow (Saturday). I think fish will be for dinner this weekend.

Most of the above (with the exception of the kimchi) appeared in various meals this past week. I actually haven't used up all of the potatoes and carrots though. thankfully, they will last a while.

As many of you know, my "schtick" is seasonal cooking. when I go to USGM, I don't really know what it is I will be making until I get there. I take a walk around, see what looks good, then start planning my menus based on availability. Menus tend to be hashed out the day of, but the seed gets planted as many as 3-4 days out. I buy the basics, then fill in holes the rest of the week.

I NEVER buy with a pre-determined list on hand, because then, what happens if vendor X doesn't have whatever I need? This is a more organic way of cooking, and it works for me. Also, my menus evolve from one day to the next, from one week to the next, from one season to the next. I love seeing how things change over time, and derive immense satisfaction from seeing this progression. There is a logic of sorts that underlies it, and an intrinsic beauty.

Edited March 22, 2013 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[SobaAddict70]

Is that (melting) ice I see on the Savoy cabbage?

If you are there again this month (with temps still in the around-freezing-range) I'd be curious for a pic of what Silva Orchids (see pdf) offers at this time...

How does the Union Square stuff compare with, say, the indoor Chelsea Market (or other indoor Winter [Farmers'] Markets) in NYC?

it was rain, since on the day I took it, it was drizzling.

I've never been to Chelsea Market or any indoor farmers' markets here in NYC, so I can't comment about any comparison to those.

[patrickamory]

I've had many disappointments at Union Square. Just because it's local doesn't mean it's good (or even in season - there are plenty of hothouse sellers).

I think part of the problem is that I don't get there at 6 AM.

[SobaAddict70]

I've had many disappointments at Union Square. Just because it's local doesn't mean it's good (or even in season - there are plenty of hothouse sellers).

I think part of the problem is that I don't get there at 6 AM.

I don't get there at 6 am either, but still have a great experience.

FYI, I never buy from the hothouse sellers. What would be the point? Sure you can have tomatoes in January, if you don't mind paying through the nose for them. I'll take them when they're available all over instead of out of season.

If I want tomatoes now, I have to look at canned options. Since *I* don't know how to can (yet), that means stuff from Fairway. Learning how to can is a long-term goal, so I can have XXXX (tomatoes, or string beans or corn or whatever) whenever I want them.

So, in the winter, it's lots of root vegetables, winter greens, long-cooked grains, nuts and winter fruit. Things like cauliflower, cabbage, turnips, black radishes, heirloom carrots and potatoes, and watercress. Rutabaga, brussels sprouts, celeriac. Chestnuts, mushrooms, apples. It's a different kind of cooking. Part of the experience is adapting and learning. And even if what you're getting isn't top-of-the-line, you can still have fun. I like buying odds and ends like onion flowers, ramp bulbs and rocambole garlic. I can always make something out of nothing.

[SobaAddict70]

The market is whatever you make out of it. People decry USGM because it's expensive, or because there are vendors that sell potatoes and apples from 3 months ago. Well, there's nothing that says you have to buy the expensive stuff to make something delicious. I'm sure you know this, but it bears repeating -- the key is in knowing how and where to shop, and what to get. For instance, I know that Mountain Sweet Berry always charges premium for sucrine and ramps; and Stokes for edible flowers. If my budget can support that for the week, I'll make room for them. If it can't, there's always next time.

And some items pay for themselves. I bought a 2 lb. jar of honey, with honeycomb from Tremblay Apiaries a while ago, for $15. It's a lot of honey, and it's been put to good use. That's more than you can say for the "honey" that's available at a supermarket.

As for vendors who sell vegetables from storage, they have to make money somehow. I'm willing to forgive them that, since they do right by me on so many other levels.

[patrickamory]

I'm truly happy to pay considerably more for great local produce that tastes delicious. I've just been burned too many times, ending up with stuff that's only a few levels above supermarket... or worse.

I feel like I have to make a list of the reputable vendors.

I only buy produce in season of course.

[SobaAddict70]

I'm truly happy to pay considerably more for great local produce that tastes delicious. I've just been burned too many times, ending up with stuff that's only a few levels above supermarket... or worse.

I feel like I have to make a list of the reputable vendors.

I only buy produce in season of course.

well, I think there's a lot to be said from people who buy at USGM and who are members of eG. this thread can be a great resource for individuals like you, who may need information about what's on hand.

this assumes of course, that the information providers are data points you trust, whose tastes may ideally, or hopefully, closely align with those of your own. =P

[Syzygies]

If I want tomatoes now, I have to look at canned options. Since *I* don't know how to can (yet), that means stuff from Fairway. Learning how to can is a long-term goal,

I'm into my share of charmingly retro food preservation techniques (e.g. fermenting hot sauce) but canning isn't one of them.

Throw a dart at the cookbook section of Barnes & Noble and you'll find a recipe (e.g. Colicchio, Keller) for a fussy tomato conserve. Dumb it down, and make enough to freeze for the year. If you have to revert to cans partway through the year, your recipe was too fussy. Think 30 lb batches.

I skin, salt, and partially dehydrate tomatoes, then bag them in chamber vacuum pouches with an impulse sealer, and store them in a chest freezer for the year. They last several years in perfect condition. I use CA tomatoes from my garden, and NY tomatoes from farmers markets.

I dread ordering dishes that involve tomatoes, off-season, even in $100 restaurants. They taste canned. It amazes me that restaurants don't freeze tomato conserves for the year, selling the excess through say Eataly.

[Mjx]

I prefer buying from USGM (and other farmers' markets within the grownyc system, if I'm able to get to them), because of the relationships you develop by seeing a vendor once or twice a week. Also, USGM is convenient to me, whereas Chelsea Market is farther west and would require a major schlep.

Not to mention, Chelsea Market isn't a farmer's market, unless things have changed radically in the past few months.

[weinoo]

I've had many disappointments at Union Square. Just because it's local doesn't mean it's good (or even in season - there are plenty of hothouse sellers).

I think part of the problem is that I don't get there at 6 AM.

I'm truly happy to pay considerably more for great local produce that tastes delicious. I've just been burned too many times, ending up with stuff that's only a few levels above supermarket... or worse.

I feel like I have to make a list of the reputable vendors.

I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding this...what vendors are disreputable or what have you bought that is worse than supermarket stuff?

Most everything is available for a taste, isn't it? And I've never met a vendor who, if you were to tell them that the corn you bought last week sucked, wouldn't make it up to you.

I mean we all know there's no outdoor growing season here during January and February, and apple harvest takes place Aug - Oct, so stuff we're buying in March was harvested some time ago - but that's the case even with a lot of stuff in the supermarkets; either that, or it came from 6,000 miles away.

[huiray]

I prefer buying from USGM (and other farmers' markets within the grownyc system, if I'm able to get to them), because of the relationships you develop by seeing a vendor once or twice a week. Also, USGM is convenient to me, whereas Chelsea Market is farther west and would require a major schlep.

Not to mention, Chelsea Market isn't a farmer's market, unless things have changed radically in the past few months.

No, but when I first asked about USFM versus, "say, Chelsea Market" I was thinking of the local stuff that one might find in both, as I explained in a subsequent post. Besides, shopping indoors in winter is more pleasant than shlepping through snow or freezing your butt off (and hands and fingers) outdoors in inclement weather, no? :-)

[patrickamory]

Mitch - the real problem is that I'm lazy, don't have a ton of free time anyway (never on weekdays), the place is packed on weekends in the summer and I don't get there till 2 or 3, and I don't have a great short-term memory anymore at my age.

The chances of me being back on a following Saturday to complain to a vendor are next to nil given my travelling schedule.

I'm not blaming USGM here folks - just pointing out that it is not a slam-dunk. Like so much in NYC, it requires work, and that's work I don't always have the time and energy to put into it.

I will gladly take recommendations from people on reputable vendors - please fire away!

[patrickamory]

Oh and what I have I bought that's worse than supermarket stuff? You name it - peaches and nectarines in season are the worst offenders. I don't think I've ever gotten killer tomatoes (maybe once). Corn on the cob - I may be spoiled because I'm from New England, but that's rarely good. Even apples (again possibly a New England fixation) - I've had bad McIntoshes, Macouns, you name it. Decent honeycrisps though you can get those in the supermarket.

Again, this is not a general slam on USGM, I'm just pointing out that local does not necessarily equal excellent.

[SobaAddict70]

Oh and what I have I bought that's worse than supermarket stuff? You name it - peaches and nectarines in season are the worst offenders. I don't think I've ever gotten killer tomatoes (maybe once). Corn on the cob - I may be spoiled because I'm from New England, but that's rarely good. Even apples (again possibly a New England fixation) - I've had bad McIntoshes, Macouns, you name it. Decent honeycrisps though you can get those in the supermarket.

Again, this is not a general slam on USGM, I'm just pointing out that local does not necessarily equal excellent.

I don't think anyone has stated on this thread that local = excellent.

However, I buy from there when I can because I like supporting farmers and the environment, because of the variety, and because of the quality of some of what's available (you seriously cannot compare supermarket chicken to chicken and eggs from Quattro's or Belle Rouge). I don't eat meat as much as I used to; given the choice between meat from the supermarket or a vendor at USGM, I'll buy from USGM 100% of the time, because I know that the animal was raised sustainably and not in a questionable manner.

Your mileage may vary.

Anyway, some of this stuff has been rehashed elsewhere on eG, and I'm not interested in going in that direction again. That ship has sailed.

[weinoo]

Oh and what I have I bought that's worse than supermarket stuff? You name it - peaches and nectarines in season are the worst offenders. I don't think I've ever gotten killer tomatoes (maybe once). Corn on the cob - I may be spoiled because I'm from New England, but that's rarely good. Even apples (again possibly a New England fixation) - I've had bad McIntoshes, Macouns, you name it. Decent honeycrisps though you can get those in the supermarket.

Again, this is not a general slam on USGM, I'm just pointing out that local does not necessarily equal excellent.

Interesting, as I think some of the best of the produce I've eaten and you've mentioned have come from the USGM - but anything can happen!

We'll keep you informed on who has what this coming growing season!

[weinoo]

(you seriously cannot compare supermarket chicken to chicken and eggs from Quattro's or Belle Rouge). I don't eat meat as much as I used to; given the choice between meat from the supermarket or a vendor at USGM, I'll buy from USGM 100% of the time, because I know that the animal was raised sustainably and not in a questionable manner.

Interestingly enough, I actually find that the Bell & Evans organic air-chilled chicken I buy at Whole Foods is my new favorite.

And I got some pork twice the week from Heritage Meats at Essex St. Market that was amazing. Tamworth chops and a red wattle shoulder...this was staring at me when I walked in on Tuesday...

[SobaAddict70]

Mitch - the real problem is that I'm lazy, don't have a ton of free time anyway (never on weekdays), the place is packed on weekends in the summer and I don't get there till 2 or 3, and I don't have a great short-term memory anymore at my age.

The chances of me being back on a following Saturday to complain to a vendor are next to nil given my travelling schedule.

I'm not blaming USGM here folks - just pointing out that it is not a slam-dunk. Like so much in NYC, it requires work, and that's work I don't always have the time and energy to put into it.

I will gladly take recommendations from people on reputable vendors - please fire away!

Well, it's 12:26 pm on a Saturday. I've just gotten up like maybe 30 minutes ago. I love to sleep in on the weekends, so this is normal for me. As a result, I won't get there until 2 pm. Most of the best stuff will be gone, but that's okay. That's really not the point, as far as I'm concerned.

These are the vendors that I like:

Paffenroth -- for root vegetables of all kinds, alliums (onions, shallots), herbs and some unusual vegetables that you don't see offered much -- puntarelle, cavolo nero, cardoons, upland cress, purslane, dandelion greens

Blue Moon Fish -- for fish, shellfish, whole fish. If I can't get to USGM or if they're sold out, Citarella is my next stop.

Cato Corner -- cheese

Fifth Floor -- baked goods

Flying Pigs -- bacon, pork products, eggs

Hawthorne Valley -- cheese, sauerkraut/kimchi/curry carrots, dairy

Knoll Krest -- eggs, fresh pasta

Lani's -- greens

Lynnhaven -- cheese, green garlic pesto when it's available.

Migliorelli -- vegetables of all kinds, occasionally fruit

Mountain Sweet Berry -- sucrine, ramps, heirloom potatoes

Quattro's -- chicken, chicken eggs, wild turkey eggs, lard

Ronnybrook -- dairy, butter, yogurt

Tonjes -- cheese, dairy

Tremblay -- honey

Windfall -- micro greens

[SobaAddict70]

(you seriously cannot compare supermarket chicken to chicken and eggs from Quattro's or Belle Rouge). I don't eat meat as much as I used to; given the choice between meat from the supermarket or a vendor at USGM, I'll buy from USGM 100% of the time, because I know that the animal was raised sustainably and not in a questionable manner.

Interestingly enough, I actually find that the Bell & Evans organic air-chilled chicken I buy at Whole Foods is my new favorite.

And I got some pork twice the week from Heritage Meats at Essex St. Market that was amazing. Tamworth chops and a red wattle shoulder...this was staring at me when I walked in on Tuesday...

photo (1).JPG

never been to Whole Foods (and as long as one of their co-CEOs continues his opposition with respect to some of the issues cited in this wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mackey_%28businessman%29, that's not in the cards).

I was thinking more along the lines of meat from an Associated, Food Emporium or Gristedes, or Fairway.

Edited March 23, 2013 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[SobaAddict70]

Still wintry, although it seems to be warming up some. Forecast for Monday includes snow, which I really am quite tired of by now.

Rick Bishop from Mountain Sweet Berry thinks ramps might be in as early as April 10th. Can't come soon enough.

Market basket for today: miniature potatoes, leeks, squid, scallops, shallots, challah, dried navy beans, baby mesclun, radish sprouts.

I might make another trip on Wednesday -- I'm on vacation this week.