albiston
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Posts posted by albiston
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Kevin, your bread baking is getting better and better. Kudos! Is there a difference between the dough of the two breads? From your picture the pitta's dough seems slightly dark: any wholewheat or other flour there?
... and I could just kill for that fish
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Young zucchini leaf buds are considered a delicacy in Southern Italy where you can find them on offer as talli or tenerume. I've mainly seen them used in soups or as a boiled green served as anzu mentioned.
On the other hand, I've never seen the fully grown leaves used anywhere. My suspicion was always that they become to hard to be palatable, but I'd love to be wrong on that. I'd have another new thing to try out that way
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ignobakko,
first of all let me welcome you warmly to the eGullet's society. I have to admit your post tickled my curiosity. When I'm abroad I'm deeply curious about local dishes and I very seldom eat Italian. You seem to be doing exactly the opposite and so I was wondering if there's a particular reason for this.
Ciao!
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That's quite a meal Dean! Really impressive.
Just curious: do you have an idea of what sort(s) of wild mushroom were used for the delicious looking spaghetti? It's really hard to say from the picture since they're hidden under that abbundant truffle shavings... I can just imagine the smell!
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PCL,
the recipe you're looking for is coniglio alla cacciatora, if you do a google search for rabbit cacciatora (or chicken cacciatora which is practically the same thing) you'll find many possible variants of the basic recipe which is pretty much what you describe. Depending on where you are in Italy you might have caccatora made with a dash of vinegar, with cayenne pepper, with olives, olives and tomatoes and even recipes calling for red wine to replace the white one.
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Thanks for the compliments! I'll take the honorary citizenship, but does it by any chance come with airline mileage?
I've been lobbying for the same thing, alas to no avail. I bet things would be different if I owned a TV network or two
.By the way, can you go more into what you meant by "rigid" in describing Italian cuisine?Italian cuisine, even when you look at creative top chefs, has to my eyes a dichotomic soul. On one hand it's undeniable that Italian cuisine, or better its many regional splinter fractions, has often been more than enthusiastic in incorporating new ingredients and methods. On the other hand once a recipe has gone past the novelty stage and has become an established classic we tend to be suspicious of anyone playing around with those recipes we consider traditional. Especially if those doing so are foreigners
. Maybe you could substitute conservative or traditionalist for my "rigid".The ironic downsize of this is that many Italians tend to ignore (consciously or not remains to be seen) our culinary history and just take for granted that our cuisine has developed at home. We are often oblivious about the fact that many of our dishes have been adapted from recipes that were originally Arab, French, Spanish and so on, and at the same time most of us Italians forget or completely ignore that other dishes or culinary terms, tart/torte is a good example, have Italian origins.
In a sense, this idea is something that has developed more and more since I started reading non-Italian food press and my being here on the eGullet Society's forums has played a major role in this. I needed a healthy dose of exposure to the outside world, so to say.
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The slow food book on Italian cheese is nice, with good information and nice pictures and definitely worth the purchase.
Another good source, more technical but also more complete, is Istituto Nationale di Sociologia Rurale's "Atlante dei prodotti tipici. I formaggi" (Atlas of Typical Products: Cheese). It reviews Italy's 403 cheeses. The interesting information is often hidden between the technical stuff, which is a pity.On the other hand, if one reads between the lines the comments on cheese politics (be it EU or Italian) are even more critical than Slow Food's one, and that's something I really appreciate
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From everything I've heard about cacciocavallo and provolone, it would appear that they are similar enough to each other. But does cacciocavallo get that sharp as it ages? My only concern with using provolone instead is that whenever it's aged it's invariably "extra sharp" so I'm wondering how accurate to cacciocavallo it is . . .
Caciocavallo and provolone definitely are pretty much the same thing. There are minor differences in the production process but that's also the case between different sorts of caciocavalli: milk from special animal breeds, different fermentation temperatures for the curd, different rennets and so on.
I find that apart from age, which changes both texture and taste, what makes a real difference is the kind of rennet used. Standard aged provolone is practically always made with kid rennet, which gives a more piquant aroma than lamb, calf or vegetable rennet (in decreasing order of sharpness). Provolone dolce, i.e. the sweet kind usually sold and eaten young, is often made with calf rennet. A nice experiment, if one had access to a nearby chees maker producing provolone, would be to buy one of each kind, age then for say 3-6 months and compare the tastes.
Most Provolone and Caciocavallo are indeed made with kid rennet, but there are a few exceptions. Caciocavallo Podolico for example -a caciocavallo made from the milk of the Podolica breed cows in Campania Basilicata and Puglia- is made with calf rennet. Another determining factor is how much rennet goes in the milk. Cheeses that are made in the traditional way, for example Caciocavallo Ragusano, usually benefit from longer coagulation times and lower amounts of rennet compared to industrial or semi-industrial products (Auricchio's provolone is a good example, if you get that in the US). An aged Auricchio provolone will be really sharp, with this taste dominating completely the cheese's aroma. An aged Ragusano on the other hand, especially if made from the milk of free ranging cows of the Modicana breed, will be sharp too, but in a more subtle way and you will still be able to notice the complex aroma of mediterranean herbs coming from the cow's diet.
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Kevin,
thanks for the very well written and informative review.
Since I haven't seen the book yet there's one or two things I was wondering about.
I can very well understand that the recycled recipes will be annoying for the m
Mario fans, but what about those that have lived Mario-less up to now? It almost seems to me that this could be a great book for getting to know Batali as cookbook author if one hasn't up to now. Would you say that Mario tried to sum up all the best of his simple recipes in this book?
After all that reading of regional Italian cookbooks for your "A year of Italian cooking" thread, you definitely have a good idea about what regional cuisine is. (if you continue I'll personally pledge for you to have a honorary Italian citizenship
.) I was wondering how much tradition and how much creativity Mario's recipes show. It's intriguing to see how a celebrity chef -given the good dose of self-confdence and even some arrogance he should posses- manages to come to terms with a rather rigid cuisine as Italian family, or if you wish trattoria or even "poor" cuisine.P.S. great pics, mouthwatering in the truest sense... or maybe it's just that it's lunchtime here
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Alberto,
Thanks for that. Now I'm totally curious. I would like to do a comparative tasting for what you have spoken about. Can you think of any two cheeses that might exemplify what you are speaking about.
There is a cheese monger in Vancouver, that might have them, especially if they are artisanal.
A very good comparison, if you can find these cheeses, would be to pick one of the many "normal" Pecorini from Tuscany, which are nowadays almost completely made with kid's rennet and a vegetarian version of the same. The latter, though still somewhat rare, is becoming more popular due to the increased attention to vegetarian customers.
Or you could compare the Azeitao cheese you mention -or actually most Portugese ewe's milk cheeses- with the Spanish Manchego, which uses animal rennet.
Another possibility would be to compare two provolone kinds, the sweet and the "piccante", especially if you can get both of the same approximate age (not easy but also not impossible). Sweet Provolone is made with calf rennet while the piquant version exclusively with kid rennet.
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Nowadays it's used only by the hardcore traditionalist cheesemakers, which I personally find a pity because it gives ewe's milk cheeses a much smoother taste compared to kid rennet.
So are you saying that cheese aficionados can actually taste what rennet has been used in a cheese? Would you be able to elaborate on this?
It is sadly not so easy (what is!). So, if you take up a comparative tasting of pecorino cheeses it is hard to say if a cheese is made with vegetable or lamb rennet. On the other hand, it is quite easy to recognize a cheese made with kid's rennet simply because the latter gives a much sharper/piquant note to the ripe cheese.
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The Masseria we were staying at had lots of caper trees/bushes (I think they would be classed as a bush) but unfortunately they weren't quite ripe yet. Nor for that matter were the olives which were only just beginning to grow. Does anyone know when olive harvest time is. I found out from the owner of Borgo San Marco, where we stayed, that they are pressed in March, but is that when they're picked as well?
Olive picking time depends quite a bit on the kind of olives grown. On the other hand, AFAIK, in Southern Italy the olive picking time (be it from the trees by hand or shaking them from the trees into nets when ripe) goes on between late October and early February. Olives are then washed and pressed in a matter of hours or just a few days. March seems quite late to be honest: did they explain why they press their oil so late by any chance?
Thanks once more for the great report!
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le virtu, a soup made on or near the start of May. The idea, according to di Blasi, is to clean out one’s larders from the winter and combine all the dried beans and bits of salumi left over with the first crops of spring. Callen and Batali both give much more elaborate recipes in their respective treatments of Abruzzo, making it into a multi-pot cooking affair. With temperatures here already nearing or topping 100 F daily, I just don’t have it in me to make such a rich, robust soup, But I felt I’d be remiss to not at least mention and recommend tracking down this towering achievement in Abruzzese cooking.
With those temperatures I wouldn't be making that dish either
. I was wondering if any of those authors mentions at all the religious connection of le virtù. A few Italian authors give the same explanation di Blasi gives and state, as you mention, that the name of the dish wants to point out the virtue of the home cook who managed to make it through the winter with enough food left to still have a little bit left when May comes. Others point out to the traditional repetition of the number seven in this recipe (text below quoted from the official webpage of the Abruzzo region):The "virtù" is an auspicious dish which includes seven types of dry pulses (the remains of the winter supplies), seven types of fresh pulses and seven types of vegetables (fresh produce), seven qualities of meat, seven shapes of pasta, seven seasonings, and seven hours cooking time.Because of this repetition of seven some authors claim the name of the dish is a symbol of Catholic influenced gastronomy since it evokes the seven capital virtues in a dish.
My impression is that the first theory is a better explanation for the origin of the dish and that the religious context has probably been added in a second moment. I just cannot imagine those Abruzzo farmers giving a thought to capital virtues while they try to scrape a dish together with the last food left from winter.
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Alberto, this is why you get the big bucks! Thanks for the additional info.
Oh yes John, those special manager wage increases
!I was surprised to find the connection betweeen provolone and Lombardia. I just always knew it as a Campanian cheese.I wonder if the knowledge of provolone coming from Campania is more widespread outside Italy. Back home there's quite a lot of people who ignore thhis: since most of it is now produced under the protected denomination of origin Provolone Valpadana hailing from Lombardia and Veneto, many just take the Northern Italian origin for granted.
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So, wait, is scamorza a little softer, more like mozarella/F.D.L and less like cacciocavallo? Is it supposed to be so smoky? I bought "scamorza" at the store today, it had a hard, brownish rind but was soft inside.
Pretty much so, or maybe the best way to say it is that scamorza is like very young provola/caciocavallo, apart the smaller shape clearly. Young caciocavallo/provola -aged between about one week to two month, depending on size- and scamorza can be used for the same sort of recipes, since they behave similarly in cooking, though scamorza has a mellower taste.
Kevin, is the inside actually soft or more supple and elastic? Scamorza should be the latter. If it is soft like mozzarella, it's softer than it should be. The brownish rind probably comes from the smoking, which also dries the rind out an extra bit making it harder than that of "normal" scamorza.
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Scamorza and mozzarella are most authentically made from water buffalo milk, although many are now made with cow's milk (i.e fior di latte).
John, it's a bit more complicated than that actually. Mozzarella-like cheese has been produced for centuries in different Southern Italian areas. In particular the three main areas were (and in a sense are) the Terra di Lavoro north-west of Caserta, once a wetland and ideal for rising water buffalo, the area around Agerola, where the cheese was traditionally made with milk from cow's of the local race, and a few areas in northern Puglia. The cheese coming from Terra di Lavoro was always made with buffalo milk, although it is not certain it would have been pure buffalo, and is the one which went under the name mozzarella originally. The other two were previously sold mainly as fior di latte, which is the common name for cow's milk mozzarella in Campania, but also as mozzarella. The problem of mozzarella naming and related frauds goes back quite longer than one would imagine.
Scamorza is basically like mozzarella, although is generally firmer and saltier. It is aged for a short while unlike mozzarella which is best fresh. These are principally from Campania, particularly the buffalo rich areas around Salerno and Caserta. I believe that in Campania it is only the scamorza that is smoked, though I am not positive about that.You can get scamorze from cow's milked, smoked or not, in Abruzzo and Molise. Actually if you ask there the locals will tell you that scamorza was invented there and exported to Campania. Could be true, but could also be an example of the proverbial Italian pride for local history and related "embellishment" of the truth
.Caciocavallo is thought by some to have originated as a mare's milk cheese, but now is generally a cow's milk cheese. It is likely related to the Kaskaval cheeses of the easteren Mediterranean. It is the Parmagianno of Sicily and southern Italy and often used as a grating cheese. Ragusano is a specific form of this cheese from the area around the city of Ragusa.I have heard the story about the mare's milk before too, it's one of the two popular theories that tries to explain the name of the cheese. Cacio and cavallo, taken apart, mean cheese and horse, which easily explains the origin of the theory. Unfortunately there is no historic document mentioning the use of mare's milk in Italy in any form whatsoever. What seems more probable is that the term comes from the expression "cacio a cavallo", where "a cavallo" is a general expression indicating something hanging as on a horseback and referring here to the common way to store these cheeses tied together pair-wise and hanging by the string on a stick. Caciocavallo as a cheese named is used throughout southern Italy from Abruzzo to Sicily. Apart the fantastic Ragusano you mention there's another great caciocavallo, Caciocavallo Podolico, made from the Podolica race cows, a very hardy and ancient race , which feeds on preferentially on herbs and berries, giving an incredibly aromatic milk and cheese.
Provolone is another cow's milk cheese that, although the books say is from Lombardy, I more commonly associate with Campania.This cheese was apparently familiar to the Ancient Romans. It is basically long-aged mozzarella, although the production process is somewhat different.Provolone definitely comes from Campania. I did not know about the Romans, but you can find mentions of "provature" (the old name of provolone) in Neapolitan commercial records of the XI century. Provola was probably the most used cheese in Nepolitan cooking during the XVII and XVIII centuries. Unfortunately things have changed quite a bit from those times. Today there's only one Provolone still made in Campania, Provolone del Monaco, on the Amalfi coast. Today, as you mention, the main production area is now in the Po plain in Lombardy, where it was introduced in the XIX century by southern immigrants.
Essentially Provolone and Caciocavallo are very similar. If you look at the production steps, they're both pasta filata (spun curd) cheeses, where the curd has been treated in such a way to remove more liquid than what one would do for mozzarella or scamorza, something necessary for the longer shelf-life of these chesses. Different caciocavalli or porvoloni will have differences in taste mainly caused by the quality of the milk used, the type of rennet used (kid gives a more pungent taste than lamb), amount of salt added and ageing time. To go back to Kevin's original question, I would substitute caciocavallo with a provolone of the same ageing as required by the recipe.
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Chef Pope,
thanks for being here with us and for your extremely interesting thoughts. It has been a pleasure reading and replies in this chat. So much so that I would really be intrigued to come to T'afia. Unfortunately, living on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, my chances of trying out your cuisine are pretty low at the moment. Maybe in the future
.Reading your replies and Elie's very nice introduction to this chat I see that you are a strong advocate of local ingredients and that your cuisine has its strong points in seasonality, healthiness and simplicity. Being Italian, my gastronomic background is strongly connected to these concepts and so I feel a great affinity and sympathy for your food philosophy. This ideas, on the other hand, seem to less popular, at least with some people, than it might have been a while back. Many of today's "hot" chefs are moving in a completely different direction, like molecular gastronomy, which could hardly be defined as simple. With them there's a certain number of food lovers is leaning towards more complex and avant-garde techniques. What are your feelings regarding this way of cooking? And also: do you ever get the feeling that a certain kind of food lover might be prejudiced against your cooking because of its simplicity?
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shadow,
a good source is the online version of Slow Food's "Osterie d'Italia" guide, dedicated to places where the average meal costs 35€ or less. You will need to register on the Slow Food site, but it is absolutely worth it. Their tips have seldom let me down.
The only let down is that you only get to read the description of the trattorie if you view the page in Italian, otherwise it's only a list of addresses and phone numbers. Even so you'll end up with an up to date list of convenient eateries in Rome.
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Cinghiale,
great report. I might be visiting a good friend in Hamburg soon and I'll definitely keep your suggestions in mind.
On Saturday morning we meandered through the various Passagen downtown, stopping for a beer at the Alster Pavillion (Jungfernstieg), an outdoor café offering a nice view of the Inner Alster, Hamburg’s manmade lake. Then it was on to the Landungsbrücken (Hafen) for a disappointing Thüringer Bratwurst and a delicious Flens.Never, ever, ever order a Thüringer Bratwurst outside Thüringen
! The local experts (i.e. every single Thuringian ) claim that real Bratwurste, or Roster as they're locally called here in Jena, have to be grilled freshly made, no longer than 24hs after production. Instead, since they spoil quickly, to be able to transport them elsewhere they need to be blanched loosing much of thier appeal. Well, that and the fact that you need to get them from a good butcher. That means you can only savour them at their best here in the Freistaat. Should you ever find yourself here in Thüringen I'll happily be your Bratwurst guide. -
I plead the Fifth on the blatant Reddi-Whip topping there. I throw myself at the mercy of the eGullet elite and beg them not to revoke my membership.
Kevin,
it's OK this time, but only because it was your birthday
!Buon Compleanno!!
Pity about the duck. The dish itself, at least as concept sounds intriguing. How much herb mixture did you end up using?
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Does anyone know if all white balsamic has sugar added? Or are we just getting the cheap stuff?
White balsamic can only be "the cheap stuff"
since real traditional balsamico, Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale di Modena, is always amber colored. Also the production method is completely different. The traditional product is made from grape must from white sort Trebbiano, which has been concentrated through cooking, let acidify naturally and then aged, if I remember correctly, for at least 12 years in casks made of different wood sorts, each contributing to the special aroma of the product.Essentially the cheap balsamico has nothing to share with the original product. It is always wine vinegar, grape must and either caramel syrup (dark balsamico) or anti-oxidising agents like sulphite (white balsamico).
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PART III
"The Shops/Temptation"
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Did you give in to temptation
? The Bottega del Pecorino looks extremely inviting, I sure would have given in! Great picture. I had never seen so many dried chilis in Northern Italy before... those northeners must be gatting the hang of hot food finally
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eG Foodblog: Adam Balic - An Australian in Scotland
in Food Traditions & Culture
Posted
Adam, I just love your restaurant plating, makes me hungry. Hem, we never talked about which kind of restaurant, right
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The chocolate addition is a great idea. Just yesterday evening I was reading an Italian food magazine where a chef from Rome explained how he likes to add a touch of chocolate to the local classic "coda alla vaccinara" (translates sort of into oxtail butcher style). It would be nice if these big chefs would stop nicking your ideas wouldn't it? I'd copyright those vegetarian scratchings straight away if I were you.