Bux

I experienced what I thought was the product of some excpetional cuisine at l'Atelier. I will not dispute the quality of what's available in Spain, if not commonly, then in a wide range of seemingly middle class bars. This is particularly true of seafood and my sense is that much of it is local, although I've seen evidence that the best is immediately available in Madrid, but I'm thinking of the gambas from the southeast part of Spain that appeared, for a price, in good restaurants and bars. On the whole, I sense that great food in Spain is much more ingredient dependent that that of France, which is a great reason why we have not seen fine Spanish restaurants in NY the way we have seen French restaurants. I think the fair comparisons for l'Atelier de JR are his own cuisine of the past, his peers in their formal restaurants and wherever else in Paris one can eat for 100€. What would be unfair, is to expect the cuisine to match that of say Pacaud or Passard given the difference in price. Where I think Robuchon's been successful is in paring down the price mostly in ways, but not entirely in ways, that don't affect the taste of the dish. I've eaten there but once. Two of us had the tasting menu, the other two had a few courses. French people next to me had a small course and then a steak. That choice perplexed me. However, it's not a tapas bar in any way shape or form. Based on my limited experience, it's best appreciated by having the tasting menu just as if one came to a theater for a series of short one act plays, and perhaps at a threater with less than optimum seating conditions, if I may stretch the analogy. I've said that the shortcuts have minimal effect on the food. That doesn't mean that there's no loss of flavor in trade for efficiency. If truffles are shaved well ahead of time. It would be a false economy as the flavor would undoubtedly suffer. If the dish is dependent on truffles, it could result in a disaster. If the dish is not dependent on the truffle, they it might be best to eliminate it altogether, but I don't find the issue symbolic of an endemic problem. I felt the price tag was merited by the quality of the cuisine I had. Most of the dishes had me on the edge of my seat. By comparison, three of us ate at Dutournier's Pinxo for well under half what four of us paid at Robuchon that same week. We were all dismayed at how uninteresting most of the food was and how little thought went into creating the dishes as well how little effort went into preparing the food. Mrs. B, who was babysitting our grandson, was the only one who didn't think that was a wasted evening. At Robuchon, I felt exactly the opposite.

I notice Botafumeiro doesn't seem to be closed on Sundays. Is that unusual for a seafood/fish restaurant of such note?

This is also the case where a little information can be more harmful than helpful. If you knew nothing about Spain, you'd have a 50-50 chance of picking the right meat, but once you know that Spain is most famous for its ham, you're most likely to overlook a local specialty. Waveryly Root's The Food of France was an invaluable guide for me on our early trips to France, but I don't know of a comperable tome for Spain. In general there's less about Spanish food written in English than there is about French food. Penelope Casas has been of some use, but I don't have good paperback guide to regional cuisine in Spain and I know I've missed local specialties just as your foreigners above. Then again I rarely leave anything untried on a breakfast buffet. That's one reason I try to avoid them.

Does anyone have any experience or knoweldge of La Fonda Xesc in Gombrèn (northwest of Ripoll)? It has one sol. It sounded promising from the listings in Campsa and Michelin, where it is a "bib" restaurant. The menu, at first glance, reads a bit too internationally and not all that traditional. Then again it offers a course of Pie de cerdo, "espardenyes" y butifarra negra and a few other dishes the look and sound like something I won't find in NY.

I'm rather surprised there's a vintage Macvin at all, considering the nature of the beverage a blend of before wine and after wine beverages. That's a curious name. The blend of juice and eau-de-vie reminds me of Pommeau from Brittany which is a blend of apple juice and eau-de-vie of cider. The bottle I have is 17% alcohol. It's a bit sweet for my taste, but a traditional aperitif in Brittany. It was used for a toast at our daughter's wedding. She's married to a Breton.

I had that dish many years ago. I'm not sure I could write four sentences about it and only use the work "perfect" twice. Then again, I know I could not manage four three star meals in three days, so my hat's off to you. What struck me about that dish then, was how relatively uncreative it seemed and devastatingly good it was. It was, in a word, "perfect." It was perfect in a way that "flawless" dosen't come near describing. It's not that it was without fault, but that it seemed to be complete and the culmination of centuries of French cooking. Not only did the wafer seem to float above the rest of the dish, but the langoustines seemed to hover above the sauce which in turn was also etherial. This sensation, or memory of sesation was probably more a product of the taste, than of the visual effect of the layers. I placed that dish on such a pedestal that I was dumbstuck years later to read a criticism of that dish used in reference to what was wrong with French cuisine today in Adam Gopnik's From Paris to the Moon. I was thoroughly enjoying the book and so struck that I couldn't get beyond that chapter. I put the book down and tried continuing a couple of times. I was finally able to get on with the book only by skipping that chapter. I love Gopnik's writing, but I've had trouble reading him on food since. As for the American chef he quoted for an opinion on Pacaud's use of curry, I finally got around to eating at his restaurant. He's a good cook, but to no surprise, it wasn't my kind of food.

Life's a bitch when you have to kill time in a place like Paris. Those who disagree with that, will usually do so with the argument that there's no place like Paris.

I've only been there once, but I had some of the same impression you had. I think it was a Sunday night and I think there was a cook/chef next to us on a night off, and a couple to our other side that seemed to be regulars. Regulars treat restaurants differently. It's an odd restaurant for NYC, but odder yet for the neighborhood which is changing. As for the couple who preferred it to Per Se, I'm sure there are many who can afford either, WD-50 is not exactly cheap, who prefer WD-50 and many more who prefer Per Se, but who cares what onyone's subjective preference is. The trouble with online groups, and eGullet suffers this as well, is that personal taste is often presented as if it's objective criticism. People present their subjective point of view based on limited experience as something we all need to hear to make our own decision as to whether to make a visit or not. For what it's worth Raphael Garcia Santos, one of Spain's well known restaurant critics has said the Wylie is the best chef in NY. He may have said the only restaurant in NY worth eating in is WD-50, his opinion is so strong. Unfortunately, RGS has a reputation in Spain not just as a champion of creative cooking, but of ignoring the great traditional cuisine as if a chef is letting down the national image by not trying to be creative. A balanced view would have to assess the quality of cooking against that of restaurants cooking more traditional fare. WD-50 can hold it's head high in that regard and a preference for or against dining there is very likely to be based on style for those who insist on good cooking. I would say the restaurant is a must for anyone who loves avant garde creativity. This is as good as it gets in NY, but it's probably also a must at least once, for anyone in NY who really loves food and has the budget to give it a try. It would be a shame not to have the first had information to make one's own mind about what one prefers.

I think Robuchon is guilty of trying to modernize haute cuisine. I'm just not sure that's necessarily a crime. A year of two before he "retired," Robuchon suggested the day of haute cuisine restaurants where the staff well outnumbered the diners was in danger of becoming extinct. Some will see his attempts as dreadfully misguided while others will view his efforts through rose colored glasses and find them noble. Personally I'm of mixed minds. I'm eager to support conservation of both our natural resources and our cultural peaks, but I'm also excited by new ideas and keep an open mind as to how they can serve me. A certain amount of the criticism of l'Atelier de JR seems simply based on the concept and some of it is based more on the spread of haute cuisine by bringing it to the counter, while more naturally the bulk of it is based on the debasing of haute cuisine by introducing what may be seen as the industrial revolution into the kitchen and dining room. Some of the criticism is based on what has been served and eaten, but even here I wonder how much appreciation, or lack thereof, is colored by the concept. Clearly Robuchon is not bringing the 400€ meal to the table, or even the counter, for 100€ and it's very difficult to objectly compare the food served under such conditions with those served under the optimum condtitions of a fine dining staff. Dinner, or a meal, is far more than the food, even for those whose focus is heavily on the food. Although little offends me more than pretense in a dining room or a restaurant where the service outshines the food, I have come over the years to appreciate service in a top restaurant as I would good theater as an art form. Nevertheless, I think Robuchon is suffering from curmedgeonly attacks on several fronts. I don't know what the current price of his tasting menu has risen to. It was 98€ when I was there and we thought it an appropriate value. Vedat makes good reference to some shortcuts, but I suspect many of those same shortcuts are taken in kitchens behind closed doors more often than not, but again, I wouldn't claim that l'Atelier de JR is producing the finest meal in Paris by a long shot. It's just that I think he's doing something creative that is a potential bonus for food lovers.

Potato chips are pretty international, but they seem to exist on a more artisanal level in some countries. In any event, I've not seen anyone claim them for Spain and though Saratoga Springs claims to have invented the potato chip (story here, or here) they haven't managed to successfully attach their name the way the French have to the Belgian fried potato.

As we may try to enjoy a few days without plans and never know when we will have an appetite for lunch or dinner, or how much of an appetite we will have between the starred meals, names of places that don't require reservations are good to know. Thanks all. By the way, when I say west of Girona, we're happy to venture west of Vic, as well.

Definitely need a strategy. It's going to be hard to pull myself away from Mike Mills' and Ed Mitchell's offerings to try the new guys. All I can say about the pig snoots, is what I've heard from most other people -- "They're interesting. I'm not likely to return now that my curiosity is satisfied."

Were they ordering a la carte, or having the tasting menu? I'm curious about this because, as at some other restaurants, the nature of the tasting meal is quite different. The dishes are a bit more intense. Their small size not only allows them to be more intense, it almost demands that. It's not just an intensity of taste or flavor, but one of concept. The focus on each bite is bound to be greater when you have only a few bites on each plate. I'd like to go back and have a three course meal simply because I'm curious about it, as I'm curious about the same experience in other restaurants where I know the chef too well to insult him by not letting him feed me. I'm only half serious about that. The temptation of the tasting menu is always too great to pass up, but I am left with a kind of curiosity about the "normal" menu, even in a place such as WD-50 where the tasting menu seems to be the normal menu.

Expertise seems awfully hard to ascertain in restaurant discussion. The democracy of it all is exhilarating. Nevertheless, I know what I like, and the size of a review doesn't matter.

No disagreement about where it began or what the experts know, just that misconceptions get quickly entrenched in the public mind. Folk history is full of myths and lies. Develop a sauce and name it after a cheese from a neighboring province and within a generation the neighboring province will be making claims of ownership. False truths develop a stronghold like crabgrass in far less than a generation. They quickly establlish a reality of their own, appearing in print under highly authoritive sounding titles further entrenching themselves in the public reality.

Her restaurant, please! . . . ← Absolutely. In my defense, I thought I typed "this" restaurant and unfortunately, even a spelling checker wouldn't have caught that. I knew it was a she because I had read an article about chef Ruscalleda, or at least as much as I could in Spanish. I was most impressed with her description of the openess of Spanish kitchens and the exchange of ideas that was rapidly spreading as young cooks moved around the best kitchens. She reinforced my sense that what's happening in Spain is akin to the fervor we've experienced during some of the more dynamic art movements in the 20th century.

Did your friend mean that in a complimentary way or as derogatory? I say that because a Japanese friend told me that another place in NY served fish pieces that were too large and too thick.

There was a sign, I believe in both bakeries that was somehow updated either continuously or from time to time that said how many pounds of butter had been used since the bakery opened. Perhaps the best thing at Sutters was the pound cake. The pound cake was very buttery. As a young child I was addicted to the rather banal supermarket pound cake made by firms such as Drakes and it took a while for me to appreciate the very adult pound cake from Sutter's.

The concepts of "traditional," "authentic," "native" and "typical" vary tremendously from person to person. It's not all that unusual to hear "this is a dish that's been around since 1890 when chef Quesogrande invented it. On any given Sunday, about 80% of the population in our provincial capital is eating this for dinner instead of the traditional and typical food of the region. In fact, no one eats the typical and traditional food anymore." What is traditional? Tempura, a dish many of us associate with Japan, is of course, not a traditional Japanese recipe. It came from Europeans, the Portuguese, I believe, hundreds of years ago. It's all relative. I'm quite convinced Cabrales sauce is not Asturian. I'm also convinced that enough people who might seem to be held up as reliable sources have gone on record saying it is. Thus I'm not surprised people believe it is. For instance, Bob, a moderator at the Asturian-American Migration Forum offers a recipe for Cabrales Sauce for beef or pork and jomaguca offers one for Escalopines al cabrales. If there was an Italian-American migration forum, I'm sure it would have recipes for meatballs and spaghetti, a dish that is legendary in Italy. Legendary, and just about non existent. Perhaps newcomers to this forum are surprised to eventually learn we have experts among our members. Perhaps that's why elmundovino.com refered to eGullet.com as the "primer sitio gastronómico Internet del mundo." In the meantime, it must be realised that there's an awful lot of misinformation out there, much of it in print looking very authoritative. It's not always obvious that the truth is going to come from a web site.

I like Bill Daley's work, but he's been very attentive to the phenomenon commonly referred to as "eGullet" that I could be prejudiced.

I thought he did a good job of reporting the dinner at Trotter's. I wasn't there, but I enjoyed reading the article. He seemed to cover a lot of ground in the space alloted to the article. I can't imagine the relevance of knowing he writes movie reviews when he's not reporting events, I only hope he's stopped beating his wife. Seriously, I suspect he doesn't beat his wife, has never beaten his wife and I don't expect his prowess, or lack there of, as a movie reviewer to become a topic of conversation here.

Thanks. I wish we had more time to eat everywhere. I remember the discussion about Les Cols and I recall their web site. It would be a hard place to pass up. It is possible to have too many choices. I see all of those with one exception, listed in Campsa so I have the addressses and phone numbers. I didn't see Ca la Nasia in Campsa (I have last year's edition) but I saw a Ca L'Enric. I hate to give Michelin credit in Spain, but they list both Ca L'Enric and Ca la Nasia. Ca L'Enric has both a star and a sol and it seems to offer rather traditional food. Have any of our viewers any experience with either restaurant. A no star restaurant might actually suit us better if it's the day after we dine at elBulli. At any rate, I expect the area around Olot will be a stopping place, either for lunch or for dinner and the night. We can drive through Besalu, where I recall seeing a lovely bridge that's well worth a second look.

There are actually good restaurants scattered in areas accessible from the coast and even great ones right on the coast. Sant Pau (Chef Carme Ruscalleda) is almost right off the ocean. I believe there's a strip of beach and then a train tack. That's all that separates its garden from the sea. The trains running on the track are electric and very quiet. Their occasional appearance has no ruinous effect on the meal at his fine restaurant. In fact the train station is but a blck or two awy and makes the restaurant easily accessible from Barcelona without a car. From Calella, you might be able to walk to Sant Pol de Mar and Sant Pau. This is an elegant Relais Gourmand, although, at least in summer, like most of the area, it's very informal. neither tie nor jacket seem to be needed. I think the restaurnat has two Michelin stars and three soles from Campsa. In my opinion Campsa is generally more reliable in Spain. Just a few kilometers further south is Arenys de Mar and Hispania, a repository of traditional Catalan food. The menu is overwhelming with its extensive choices. It too is in sight of the sea, but almost inaccessible to strangers. You must take the correct exit from the highway outside and then manage not to miss the turnoff to the restaurant or you will find yourself in a semideserted industrial section next to a nature beach as we did. Once we reached the restaurant there was not a tourist in sight. At lunch it was packed with what looked to be large tables of office workers, business men and local families. Trays of food and wine continually passed by us too quickly for me to observe exactly what the locals were eating and drinking, but the hostess helped us select from that vast menu. Fortunately, my wife's first langauge is Spanish. I do not recall English being spoken. Campsa awards it a sol and I see Michelin has finally seen fit to award it a star in the latest guide. Sant Celoni, inland from the coast, is home to El Raco de Can Fabes, one of Spain's great table. It's long been both a three Michelin star and three soles restaurant. Santi Santamaria is one of Spain's masters. There's been a report or two of a recent meal that was below expectations, but consider that the expectations here should be as high as they are at any restaurant in Spain or France. By comparison, Girona and El Celler de Can Roca, is a trip, though probably well under an hour's drive. After all Girona is only a 100 kilometers from Barcelona. From reports here, and my one meal at the restaurant a few years back, I'd say this is the one restaurant in Catalunya you really want to visit, second only to elBulli. I don't think Michelin has yet recognized it as three stars, but Campsa has it at three soles. There are numerous mentions of Can Roca on the site if you will do a search. The name even appears in several threads on the first page of the Spain forum, but I'll mention Luis Gutiérrez's post on his meal as noteworty. Girona is an interesting town with a medieval section that's rather recently been uncovered and restored from the rubble that buried much of it. It's well worth a day's sightseeing in addition to a visit spemy original request.cifically for Can Roca in the suburbs. These may be the most important restaurants to know in the immediate area, but I know there are more, and I'm sure I haven't discovered most of them. Just avoid the restaurant that have menus posted in more than six languages, especially when they don't list the same foods in each menu. I have a vivid memory of the joint in Lloret de Mar, a town that would be charming and probably was before it was over built, that offered spaghetti in Italian, fish and chips in English, sausages in German and of course paella in all menus. It was surrounded by shops selling souvenirs, post cards and bathing attire. In the meantime, I'm looking for interesting places to eat and stay further inland west and maybe north of Girona and Vic. I've driven over the Pyrenees from Ceret to Girona and liked the countryside. Please don't respond to that request here, but to

The title says it all. After elBulli and Can Roca, we'd like to spend a few days inland, eating well, but perhaps traditionally and not with a tasting menu. After that we'll be headed back to Barcelona, so some rustic country inn would also be a nice recommendation. Most of the recommended places I've run across seem to be creative and we'd like to have a good traditional meal or two. It could be lunch, if there's no place to stay near by, or dinner. Out alternatives are to visit the Emporda, or enjoy some more creative cuisine near Girona or Vic. High quality is a concern, but there's no particular scale of comfort that's on our minds if the cooking is good.

It's the multistarred restaurants that drew us over the border, but it's the local, regional and traditional food that draw us deeper into the country. For the tourist, the gastronome who's recently found Spain a destination, there's a synergy that can develop as one enjoys both the creative and traditional in Spain. There's an attraction to the creative food for me. It comes from the seductive sparkle reinforced by the press perhaps, but I can't discount my own general preference for new ideas and intellecual creativity. Nevertheless, I've learned I get more out of the creative food when I have had an introduction to the traditional food here. There is also a counterpoint between the two cuisines. Each meal makes me appreciate the other even more, without depreciating the meal I'm eating. ONot be overlooked, is that excellence can be found in the simple traditional food of Spain, particularly in the raw materials and in the materials that are slowly processed such as ham. I will still give the edge to France for cheese. No place is perfect, but Spain is intensely rewarding right now.