Bux

The amount of time you will save not only not buying a new toaster every five years, but not deciding on what toaster to get, will be worth every penny you spend today. Not only that, but the IRS is not likely to tax it as part of your estate when you go. You will not only leave a tax shelter for the next generation but relieve them of the need to shop for a toaster. On the other hand, my latest toaster was a middle bottom end model, but it has the widest slot I've seen. I can toast a baguette, or warm one up, without slicing it. My last toaster, standard double slotter, would only toast the outside faces of the inside faces by the time I withdrew my support for it and the one before that almost set fire to my house. Can your Dualit do any of those things. I doubt it. Case closed.

For maximum safety, you might consider turning off all flames near the pan while you pour the alcohol, but it's not like squirting lighter fluid on hot coals. As Wilfrid points out, grease will burn as well as alcohol. I've always thought that one of the reasons to flambe a dish on the stove is to burn off some of the grease. The other reason is just to burn off the alcohol in the brandy. If all you get is a blue flame or if you get no flame at all, you've still removed the alcohol by evaporation. I don't believe the flame contributes anything to the flavor of the dish and I'm not sure it makes cooking any more entertaining for the cook. I've gotten a flame with Madera, which is certainly less than 80 proof, by tilting the pan over a high flame on a commercial burner, but I suspect fat in pan was a contributory factor. Reasons to flambe at the table, especially in a restaurant, generally have more to do with showmanship than anything else. I know some people who object to having the alcohol in their dessert lost to the fire, but their complaints can usually be silenced by offering to buy them a drink.

I know I'm a nice naive guy, but do you think she might just have forgotten to mention the chocolate by accident. I guess not.

Martha doesn't leave anyone cold does she? I'm afraid she leaves me quickly when she's outside a kitchen. I'm absolutely sure any suggestions she would have about blanket making would start out by having me raise my own sheep, but when she's cooking, I find she's adept, dextrous and able bodied. She seems focused and capable of turning out any simple or complex dish. Her perfectionism doesn't run amok until she gets to decorating things, although that part might even include Halloween cookies. Liza has a good point as well. When she has guests, they are people she respects and she shows it with intelligence. There really aren't many food people on TV that seem to respect either the food they cook, the people they work with or the people watching. Whatever I may think about her, or her lifestyle, she doesn't dumb anything down and that puts her in a very small group of heavyweights. We junked cable a long time ago, but we haven't had decent broadcast reception for the past three months and just hooked up again. I've been watching constantly for the past 24 hours and now that I can see clearly again, I'm wondering if there's anything on to watch. ;)

I'm prepared to call it art, but not so keen on making a case about that. It's a good discussion, but one that eventually boils down to semantics without proving or disproving the point. I would say that in my mind, if it's not cerebral it's not art. I'm not sure that being cerebral is enough to make in art. I'll have to think about that. My point was merely that the meal was planes above sustenance and the usual terminology people use to describe their meals is clearly inadequate to communicate the sense of the evening. You rose to the occasion without needing to decide if it was art.

Margaret, I suspect Martha's recipe called for making your own foil from recycled aluminum cans and you were just too lazy. ;)

Holly, didn't mean to pry into your complex plans which are none of my business, but I'll sleep better knowing your're not schelpping out to CDG for no purpose. ;) Now I have this nagging sensation that I've read about Cafe des Federations recently and the remarks were not favorable. I wonder if it was in Jacqueline Friedrich's NY Times article. I'd hate to steer you wrong either way. In any case, I've hardly eaten poorly in Lyon. You'll find stands and sidewalk take away around the old port in Marseille. I don't recall much that appeared appetizing, but what can you expect from a guy who wasn't impressed with cheese steaks. Steve P. mentioned Le Jardin des Sens in Montpellier. The Pourcel twins (chef/owners) have just sunk a lot of money into renovating an historic building in Avignon for their new restaurant there that's just opened. They also have a bistro in Montpellier, a restaurant in Paris and plans for something in Tokyo. They may be stretched a little thin. We've had several fine meals in Jardin des Sens, but all before it earned it's third star and before they went global. I've had one report of a terribly disorganized dinner in Montpellier, but other recent reports have been favorable for the main restaurant and perhaps less so for the bistro in Montpellier. Montélimar is famous for its nougat. We bought some excellent soft nougat from Au Rocher de Provence the last time we went through Montélimar. It's not the most famous brand, but it appeared to be more of an artisanal product than most. If you're on the autoroute, it would be a time consuming out of the way trip and there's not much else to see that way.

Maybe not. Have you tried reading it backwards? ;)

Holly, I hope I read you wrong regarding the round trip from CDG to Lyon and back. Aren't you spending time in Paris? Shouldn't that trip start in one the city terminals in Paris?

Wilfrid, you spilled the beans. The secret to this site, the Internet and all life, is posted in that thread and mention is off topic here. ;)

Holly, do not use Rail Europe. Their premium is really excessive. There is no reason to use them. When you say you tried e-mailing them directly, are you referring to Rail Europe or SNCF, the French train company? We, and most the people I know, book directly with the SNCF. You should be able to book online at sncf.com. If you can't make your reservation online, send your e-mail to the address on their site. I've been told they will answer you promptly and in English if you write in English. You will need to use a credit card to pay for the tickets in advance. When you get to France you can go to any SNCF station and pickup your tickets by producing the exact same credit card as indentification. They will run the card as verification, but you will not be double charged. We did it last year and everything went without a hitch. Rail Europe does not list all the trains. They don't offer the discounts and they tack on a hefty surcharge.

Okay, a little out of context. ;)

I like frisée. I'm not sure it's an expert opinion, but I also like it with lardons, croutons and poached egg on top as does smithi. Supply and demand (not to mention advertising which, I guess, creates demand) has more to do with prices than quality. I have no idea if frisée is a cheaper lettuce in France, but it works well in the salad that's the subject of this thread. The next time I'm in France, I'll have to check market prices now that my curiosity is piqued. I've had Valenti's sturgeon salad which is certainly worth having in it's own right. I've also had Cafe Boulud's version which currently comes garnished with chicken livers as well. It may be the best frisée salad in the city, but it comes with a ภ price tag as well as an financial obligation to complete the meal at Cafe Boulud. I've been pleased with the frisé salad at Eleven Madison Park and a dinner companion was pleased with it just last week. Eleven Madison Park is not as inexpensive as Pastis, but neither is it as expensive as Cafe Boulud. If you don't arrive at peak cocktail time you may be able to find a table in the bar area and not have a full meal. You should also be able to make an inexpensive meal of two appetizers, or an appetizer and a pasta at EMP and there are some very inexpensive wines currently on the list which can go a long way towards keeping prices from getting out of line. On the whole I like all three of those restaurants for their location and price point.

My wife seconded the rave about the rillettes, or as she put it, "better than what you've made." The boudins noirs, were equally flavorful, but just not rich enough to satisfy me. The dry sausage will wait for another day as I recalled that I was in the neighborhood to visit my doctor and have my cholesterol checked.

In yesterday's NY Times dining section, Dorie Greenspan has an article on le goûter, that late afternoon tasting of bread or cake to restore your spirit. It's best if it includes some chocolate. She particularly notes Laduree's two shops, Jean-Paul Hévin's chocolate shop and tearoom as well as a clothing store and restaurant offering Pierre Hermé's confections. That's the article mentioned by Steve P. A case could be made that you should not miss any of these. I suppose with only two days, you might make some purchase at either Hévin's or Hermé's shop to take home. On the other hand, if you have a light lunch and eat dinner late, you could easily make two stops for le goûter each afternoon and also take in Angelina's. It would be a shame not to make your own comparison to Dalloyau as well. This whole train of thought reminds me of the very unique joy of being in Paris on a cold dreary winter's day. Sure the quintessential Parisian experience must seem to be sitting in an outdoor cafe on a balmy day, but that's also the tourist experience. Coming in out of the cold for a hot chocolate is an experience on a more intimate level of Paris, even in an ordinary cafe.

<moment of silence> </moment of silence> I'm glad we could be here for you. ;)I suppose you've done as much as anyone to convince me that food can be art. Moreover, that's pretty much how I'd want someone to approach and consider my art. Shelving my envy and jealousy, I enjoyed reading that very much. I see it's quite a long post. It did not feel that long. It was fascinating that Passard makes his point about vegetables being enough, by serving wild duck. Reading your post, I get the impression that just as writing helped you focus on the meal in review, the duck helped you focus on the vegetables. Thanks.

My French is very weak at best, but when a search on "tirelire" brought so many referrals, I thought I'd better look it up in a dictionary. I suspect it figures into the reviews of a lot of budget places. I'm glad to hear "restaurant" brings up my site so quickly, although I'd be tempted to use another search engine if "tirelire" brought up my site. I wonder if I mention Lyon. I find it rather remarkable when a word brings up a page, but the word is not found on the page. One of the neat things about the Michelin is its route planning feature. Knowing I have two days to get from point A to point B, I can plan alternate routes and see how many kilometers they are and compare the relative driving times. It will be interesting to see if the web site beats the guide to the new listings or vice versa. On a side note, I was about a dozen blocks from the French butcher on Second Avenue and figured this is about as close as I'll ever get except on purpose. Prices for most of the meats were not shown, but I seemed to run up a good bill in no time just excercising my base taste for rillettes de canard, boudin noir and saucisse sec. The rillettes were excellent. The rest is for dinner.

Pray tell, what do you enter to have WorldTable come up on your search engine? Certainly not "Tirelire + Lyon." I am amazed. I get all this spam offering the opportunity to get more hits by raising the odds of my site appearing in any search. I've always been tempted to reply that if they've found my site, I'm being found not by too few people but the wrong people. Wilfrid, you're certainly not the wrong person--unless you happen to be looking for the address of Tirelire. I assume it's not in the Michelin. By the way, have you tried the Michelin site? It's actually quite useful. The one thing I miss from the book, is the map with the stars and the red marks which I find invaluable in planning a route. "Tirelire," evidently is a sort of "piggy bank."

Steven Shaw, aka Fat Guy, has spent a week in the kitchen at Gramercy Tavern and lived to tell about it. In fact he's written about it on his site. To some extent he was a lay person, but treated the stage as a professional assignment. Thus his treatment was not quite like that faced by a young cook, but also not what you should expect either. From the little I've read (articles have appeared in the popular press--I recall one in the NY Times) you should expect to be well treated and not hazed as a young apprentice. I imagine the colorful kitchen dialogs continue around you, but unless you understand vernacular French and Spanish you may miss the worst (best?) of it. I also expect that it's part marketing and that every participating restaurant expects you to leave speaking well of the chef and his restaurant. That should allay some fears. My suspicion is that it will be exciting.

I've not been to La Mère Brazier, but thought it was more upscale than a bouchon.It was la Mère Brazier, with an outpost in the neighboring countryside that beat Alain Ducasse to six stars, although that's been conveniently forgotten all too often even after newspapers printed their retractions. My impression of the ambience at Le Bistrot de Lyon matches Robert's. I just wanted to know how the food was these days. That we're being offered two meals in specific places may or may not be a problem. It may appear ungracious of us to decline the offers, but we might get away with lunch. Villa Florentine is the luxury place to stay and it's very fine even if its blend of Italian renaissance and contemporary decor seems alien to its location. It's also at the top of a hill with many steps and in spite of it's proximity to all of old Lyon, may necessitate more frequent use of taxis. The Cour des Loges is in a historic Vieux Lyon structure and seems more interesting to me in that class, but then I rarely stay in luxury hotels. At any rate I much prefer the Presqu'ile for it's central location and it's daily life and cafes. In that area, over many years I've stayed in the Sofitel, Grand Hotel Concorde and Carlton. I think that's the order of quality and expense from top down in that area although all are well above average. I'm a great fan of Concorde Hotels and was particularly impressed with the level of service and personal attention from the staff of the Concorde in Lyon. We were having a problem with the airline and the young woman at the front desk offered to call the airline for us. When she got off the phone, she was incredulous at the attitude of the Delta operator. I fully believed her charm was sincere and ingrained when she asked how anyone in the travel and hospitality business could be so rude. Unfortunately she hadn't stayed in the Mercure hotel we had last used. I've also had a bad report of the Mercure personnel in their Lyon hotel next to the Carlton. Years ago we stayed at the Carlton which has a very old and kind of classy public area and neat old elevators. I remember a lot of wood and brass. Our room was less charming, but adequate and modern. The Sofitel is the "best" hotel in the area, but I found it a bit corporately modern and just a few blocks out of the way which makes a difference for someone like myself who always likes to walk. I wouldn't hesitate staying in any of those three or even some cheaper ones. For several reasons, we'll probably be staying the Sofitel and the Carlton ourselves later this spring, although my wife usually recommends the Concorde to clients. Perhaps she'll change her mind or her conviction will strengthen after our trip. Annecy is 140 kilometers from Lyon. How far one likes to drive is at least as subjective as what sort of hotel one likes, but it's further than I'd like to drive for lunch. Annecy is a lovely place, not just for the old town (which is overcrowded with tourists in season, but probably nice this time of year) but for its park at the top of Lake Annecy (which is probably dreary at this time of year). I've never been to Pere Bis, but hear the food's not at all what it used to be. Too bad Marc Veyrat is in Megève this time of year.

In defense of Léon de Lyon, there is but one sitting and it's quite possible that all the tables were reserved. The last time we ate there, people kept wandering in late into the evening. The restaurant was stilll quite empty when we arrived, which would have been around 8:00 or 8:30 in the evening, but full at some point around 9:30 or later. As I recall my tablier de sapeur was had in a tiny place much closer to the indoor market than the river. It was at lunch. We didn't reserve, but it was well off the beaten path and still very crowded. It may have received a lot of trade from the market people. Perhaps that's a false memory from wanting to believe it was where all the food people ate lunch. It was also many years ago. Now I'm confused, as there are two rivers and each has an older and more modern side. The Saône separates the heart of the city from the old city and the Rhone separates the heart of the city from the newest part of the city. Both rivers might have a relatively modern side, although the real modern office complexes are a bit further east of the Rhône. There's not much for a tourist to see east of the Rhône except for those who share a food obsession--there's the covered market, Bernachon and a few of the good restauarants. Otherwise it has residential and office areas. Vieux Lyon to the west of the Saône and the Prequ'ile between the rivers are the interesting parts in which to sightsee.The outdoor market I know is on the quai St. Antoine which is on the modern (east) side of the Saône. I think it's only on in the morning and I'm not sure on which day(s). Now I have a question for the group, or at least those few with knowledge of Lyon. Does anyone have any familiarity with either of two bistrots, Machonnerie on rue Tramassac in Vieux Lyon, or Le Bistrot de Lyon on rue Mercière? I think I know the latter. If it's the one I'm thinking of, Lacombe, the chef/owner of Léon de Lyon used to have a part ownership and it's sort of a retro-bistro that looks as if it could have been built in NY by the same interior decorators that have done the "authentic" Paris look here. One of them is listed in Michelin and the other in GaultMillau. Neither should be inspirational, but we have the opportunity to try them as guests of the city's tourist industry in a few months. I suspect we will look for simple Lyonaisse food and spend our savings at Michel Bras and Régis Marcon in the country and either Orsi or Lacombe's place in Lyon on our last night. Graham, I see on your site, that you were not knocked out by Marcon, at least not to the extent that GaultMillau is. I hope we have better luck, especially so early in the season, but as we will be in the area, I have to taste it for myself.

In the interests of "full disclosure," I should note that sometimes we buy DiCarli's extra virgin olive oil and sometimes we buy the 100% olive oil. There's a bit more flavor in the EV, but the price differential is not that great. Both may be used for cooking and general purpose when you don't want too much olive oil flavor.

Doesn't everyone? They should. At the risk of sounding like a company shill (I have no connection to the company that makes this product, but I'm a happy user.) everyone should.I'm really surprised that Combats are not in every New Yorker's apartment. We had a floor in our co-op that was over run--the inhabitants would not spray. Within months of putting Combats all over the building, the problem which was starting to spread, was cleared. This was many years ago and to the best of my knowledge, there's been no reinfestation.

While I'm opposed to posts that answer questions with nothing more than a link to another site, it's worth mentioning that Tigg has a little more information about Lyon dining on his site and that his site may be of general interest to anyone dining in France or the UK. Graham, thanks for the additional information and update posted here.

A lot of people prefer old city. I prefer the center of the city on the Presqu'ile (peninsula) between the city hall and pl. Bellecour. Without a doubt, the best restaurant in town is probably Léon de Lyon, although our last meal was perhaps not our most interesting or the best of the three we've had there. The other fine restaurant in town in which we've eaten is Pierre Orsi. His ravioles de foie gras with truffle juice and port was super, although I have to acknolwedge the favor he did for us by incorporating a whole truffle of our own given to us by a wine maker in the Cotes du Rhone. I honestly believe his dish would have been excellent even if not buried under a layer of fresh truffles. There's lot of good hearty food in Lyon. One of the specialties of the reigon is tablier de sapeur which has just been mentioned in the NY board. It's square of tripe which is breaded and deep fried. I've only had it once and that was at a little neighborhood restaurant I cannot quite locate on any map, but it was just near the covered market which I would recommend for a morning visit. It's in the newest area of the city which seems to have developed in a west to east direction crossing the Saone and Rhone in turn. The justly famous Bernachon chocolate shop is in that part of town as well, though not so near the market and on a more fashionable street. This is serious chocolate of great intensity. There's also a small open air market on the Presqu'ile side of the Saone, but I forget which day. I've eaten in a number of places not worth mentioning or even remembering, but on the whole, they were all enjoyable at the price and time. A place in which I've not eaten but would like to try myself is Poivre d'Ane which GaultMillau named as a bistro of the year in 2001. Brasserie Georges in which we had a cup of coffee after finally making our way there to see the wonderful art deco interior is a classic. Even if the food turned out to be ordinary, I'd enjoy sitting and eating in that space. The St. Alban is a bistro that was well recommended. In addition to the venerable institution in Collanges-au-Mont-d'Or there are a couple of other highly regarded restaurants within a half hour of Lyon. Last winter we dined at la Rotunde in la-Tour-de-Salvagny. It's on the second floor of a casino. The casino looked rather tacky to me, but the restaurant was interesting as was it's food. I recall my wife had a lobster menu with each course featuring a different part of the lobster in a different preparation--the left claw in salad with an oyster cream sauce, the head in a cream soup with ricotta gnocchis, cock's comb and chestnuts, the right claw in a ravioli of nut flour, the tail roasted with vegetables and marrow--add a few amuse bouches, cheese, dessert and petits fours and before you know it, you have dinner. My "Menu Rhonalpin et Champignons" was a course shorter, but even more intricate with rabbit and frogs legs on a bed of crushed pistachio and hazelnuts, sandre (fish) steak and pike quenelles with Nantua sauce, and finally quail stuffed with escargots on polenta. All courses garnished with different wild mushrooms. The chef loves NY and ran the marathon here a few year ago. The high ceilinged room is wonderful and sort of Hollywood soft art deco. I expected a black and white tuxedoed cast to arrive. Alas only a mundane group of French provincials showed up. La Pyramid in Vienne is scoring high, but Steve Plotnicki didn't like it and said so elsewhere.