Bux

Perhaps, but if five people have warm food in front of them why is it not rude to expect them to watch their food get cold while the sixth waits for his food to arrive. What purpose do manners serve in society?

My wife's first course several years ago at l'Ambroisie was oeufs de poule mollet, panes, mouillettes truffee -- a soft boiled egg with a yolk was almost red in color. (My wife is convinced that eggs with dark yolks have mroe taste than ones with pale yolks and this was one of her benchmarks.) It had been breaded on the outside and deep fried. It was served standing on a pool of chopped truffles accomanied by fingers sandwiches of white toast with truffles. I would agree that he's a master with eggs. If I found a fault, it might be that he tends gild the lily after he's found perfection. I think Daniel and perhaps the French Laundry are under rated, but in the end, I can't account for personal taste and the subjective appreciation of a restaurant meal. There's not a restaurant in the world from which I've not heard disparate reports. I've been terribly disappointed by meals in restaurants that are highly regarded by everyone I know as well as the experts and I've met people who seem intelligent and discriminating and who have had terrible meals at my favorite restaurants. I found the atmosphere too hushed and reverent when we ate there and the food almost too perfect for words. Lizzee assures us that the mood is much lighter these days and the staff less impersonal if I read her recent account correctly. Maybe it won't suit you, but it's not a place I'd recommend avoiding by any means. No better than Daniel is not a harsh criticism and if the still show less concern and are more aloof than Arzak, that's probably true of other restaurants as well. At any rate let me urge you to do as we'd like another report.

In our house it's often been a piece of roasted pepper on a slice of baguette with olive oil and anchovy and sometimes just the anchovy filet with olive oil. Goat cheese also works with either the anchovy or the roast pepper and oil. By the way, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but they're hors d'oeuvres if anyone's interested. Literally it means out(side) of the works or something that's not part of the real meal. French chefs now serve amuse bouches instead. Don't ask me why. I suppose they found out Americans can make hors d'oeuvres at home. Amuse bouches are things to amuse you mouth while you wait for dinner.

Allow me to suggest eGullet should lead the way in rethinking manners when they serve not to improve one person's meal, but to decrease the please of many. We should not be slaves to tradition. We should be rational leaders. I have no defense for the kitchen and we serve by criticizing and discussing food issues. Any server or cuisinier is free to defend the way this was handled at the restaurant, if there is an excuse. I am well aware, for all my criticism of manners, that this was a talbe with restaurant professionals and that the criticism is professional on this issue.

Longer anyway. but not that much longer. My experience may be of fewer great restaurants over a longer time span. More time to think about what I've eaten and time to forget. You don't expect me to pay le Cirque prices for that kind of food do you? Yes, but they're trying and sometimes a big flavor does get through. Generally I think their ambition exceeds their ability but what do I know? (Sorry, bux, just not a big fan.) No apology necessary and certainly not to me. It's very much my kind of food and certainly not everyone's. Although I can understand why people might not like it as much as I do, "muddled" seems an odd reaction if it's to the dishes themselves. If you mean the direction of the kitchen seems muddled, that might be something different. I've found the food rang clear, but perhaps too mute for some tastes. I prefer subtle as a the description. I wonder if their ambition exceeds their ability. I find it a curious comment here when we're asking why no one has the ambition to strike out with jaw or drawer dropping food. Well here we are with amitious gentle food, if that meets a consensus. Liebrandt is talented, but when I finished the dish, I still wondered what made him think of chocolate and scallops. Adria and Blumenthal won me over in a way, even when I didn't like a dish. Note that in France and even in Paris I found unconvincing fusion food, which was a relief as I wondered if I didn't take to Liebrandt's food because it was served in NY.

It was a French restaurant. French protocol, I believe, would have had you eating the food while it was hot. It's a real burden to the kitchen if someone leaves the table at an inopportune moment, but it's the restaurant's responsibility, in a restaurant of this class, to see that the food is served when everyone is there ready to eat. I don't know when the diner left the table or why the servers were caught off guard and the service failure is apart from my comments on when diners should begin eating. There's no question in my mind that you eat when the food is served to you. If there's a delay in one dish, you eat as it arrives. I should not wait for the last plate to be served, nor will I tolerate anyone else staring at his food while I wait for my dish. This was a different situation, but there's no intelligent reason for everyone to bring his, or her, enjoyment down to the lowest level because of the restaurant's error I wonder if there are any Frenchmen our there who can support my interetation of French manners. I disagree that it would have been rude to start eating once you ageed to let the waiters place the food on the table (not that I really believe you could have done anything about it at that point).

Funny thing, we had the same experience with Gagnaire and our concierge. As far as I know, American Express is the only credit card company who has said they will support a restaurant's charge for a no show. Nevertheless, I don't believe they will be able to make that stick with any card holder unless they have a written document confiming both the reservation and the agreement for the charge. In the case you cite, which is the first I've heard of for a restaurant, the charge was apparently made well in advance. I suspect that once the cardholder has seen the charge and has not contested it he's stuck with the charge. If the charge is made well enough in advance so that contesting what is essentially a non refundable deposit would also lose the reservation that works. But if the charge is made so it appears before the next bill is due, it may be very easy to contest it unless the restaurant has a signed slip for the deposit.

Whose fault is that? I mean is it the chef's call and if so, is he responding to what he knows of the diners by experience, or what he thinks they want from prejudice. In either case, I might fault him for pandering and for not offering what he thinks he does best or what he thinks we should have. A few weeks ago in Romorantin, we had a really great meal at the Lion d'Or. Great in that we thoroughly enjoyed the food. It was a meal worth ananlyizing, but a meal that didn't make us stop and analyze it while we were eating. We split two game courses. The first was a pigeon roasted with spices under the skin and a no brainer for us. Our attention was on the hare and which preparation to order. There was the more elegant saddle and then there was the civet of leg. We'd had civets in several inexpensive restaurants already and the saddle invarious guises came up as a must have in almost every review or mention we read prior to arriving in France. The civet was on the seasonal pre fixe gastronomical menu, but the saddle was only on the a la carte listing a slightly higher price. The "connoisseur's" choice had to be the saddle, if only so we could nod our heads in agreement should we ever get to discuss the inn with the experts. An innate perverse sense has often led me to order poorly. We ordered the Cuisse de lievre en civet au cacao possibly because it was au cacao. It was memorable. Yeah, we're cool and the world would be better off if everyone was like us, but what are the odds that rabbit stew would sell as well as saddle of rabbit in NY. Would game stew sell as well as venison chops in Daniel or Ducasse? Can Daniel even put tripe on the menu except as a whim? Put twenty of your best picked eGullet members at the table and serve them a meal of game stews for two hundred bucks and I'll bet you'll find a few of them will complain to someone that the cuts were cheap and unexpected at the price.

Add in a general air of retrenchment and conservatism in case you hadn't noticed. I think comfort food was making a cyclical come back anyway just as our sense of security was rocked. While we hope that good restaurants get the business they deserve, it's also apparent that the high end restaurants have been suffering a bit. Some don't serve lunch and it's probably easier to get reservations these days than five years ago. Interesting that you note Paris as the dining capital, but go on to mention two restaurants in other places (London and Catalonia) as examples of creativity. There may be more high end creativity in Paris today than in NY, but in that aspect it's not the capital. Could it also be that capitals in themselves tend to be conservative, protecting their reputation rather than risking it? Certainly as a contributing factor, it should be considered.Please continue, this is so much more fascinating to me than the non food chatter we've become preoccupied with here.

Of course there were some obvious answers to my question. The most obvious reasons for wanting to see the wine list before hand are exactly the same as wanting to see the menu before hand. To make an unhurried choice or at least to pick out a few items to focus on at the last minute. I was, and am, curious about less obvious reasons including those that might make the restaurant want to keep access to the list more restricted. I strongly suspect GordonCooks is correct about other restaurants "gleaning the hard work done by their sommelier." It's a long list and difficult to take in and memorize at one sitting before dinner in the restaurant. While it's a public document in that it's available to read for the price of one dinner, it's not going to be easy to memorize significant sections in one sitting. Duplicating the cellar wouldn't be easy, or cheap in any case, but there is probably much that one restaurant can learn from another and I suppose knowing what to buy is one of them. Daniel has to pay a good sommelier for his knowledge and that includes what to select as well as what to advise diners. Nevertheless, the most valuable knowledge is not what was bought, but what the next purchase will be. I'm surprised you had trouble sending e-mail to info@danielnyc.com. If you haven't had problems with other people getting your e-mail, I'd try again. The request to "info" should go to Daniel's office and be handled by his secretary and that's the most direct route I can recommend.

We missed you by a day. We dined at Blue Hill with two other couples. Both couples are old friends, but one was a couple we hadn't seen in many years. It turned out that one of their sons was a classmate of Dan's and they were responsible for introducing Dan to at least one good contact in the food world. Nevertheless, I would not classify either of our friends as obsessive foodies. We did not take notes and I tried to pay as much attention to the conversation as I did to the food. I know when I'm with obsessive food people, because the conversation rarely moves away from food and at a restaurant such as Blue Hill, it rarely moves from the food at hand. We did not take notes, however, and if we did, my post would still be far different from yours. That's not meant as an excuse for us or a criticism of your posts. One of the truly wonderful things about eGullet is that we have different takes on what we do and different styles of reporting our food experiences. I don't always pay as much attention to the dining room team as I might, especially when things run smoothly, although Blue Hill has at different times had a couple of the best managers I know. Who's leaving? Don't be so coy. The night we were there was the first time I can remember an all female team. I am not so much of a sexist to make too much out of this, and it was my wife who remarked about the staff lest I miss it. There was however, a charm and gentility about the evening that matched the food better than I had experienced before. We had some of the same food. Although my friends may not have been as dedicated to food as my wife and I, they were people I consider sophisticated and appreciative. They were quick to accept Dan's invitation to let him cook for us. We had the lamb canneloni and diced vegetables as a garnish to excellent lamb chops and Spanish mackeral as our first fish course. I recall a julienne of celery root under the fish, so the preparation was different. The fish was also very lightly cooked, which is to say rare in the center. At least this was my impression. One of the very few faults I have ever had with the restaurant is that the lighting level is just too dim for a place that is so attractively designed, served such attractive food and generally attracts a presentable crowd. It's not as dark as it used to be and I can usually read the menu these days, though I don't always check to see what's on it. Actually, I did read the wine list, so the lighting must have been tolerable. The first whiff of a gewurtztraminer actually caused me to recoil, but the second sip was borderline, so I passed the glass to Mrs. B. The sommelier put her nose to the bottle when she saw me pass the glass questionably to my left and said the wine smelled corked at about the same time as my wife concurred. The sommelier apologized for not smelling the wine before serving me a taste. I'm never sure what to expect from a wine server in NY. This was a bottle from the lower end of the list in terms of price and Blue Hill gets a very varied cross section of diners. It would be nice to never get a bad bottle of wine, but my guess is that many customers would complain if the sommelier stole a sip for tasting and some might even find it offensive in he, or in this case she stuck her nose to the bottle. That number would presumably be highest among those ordering the least expensive wines. What's a server to do. The replacement bottle was fine and I have to say, there's nothing like the aroma of a lovely gewurtztraminer after you've smelled a corked one. The difference may be so great that it's no wonder I think the number of gewurtztraminers I've rejected are far out of proportion to the number I've ordered. The other three wines of the night were also fine and this was in no way a criticism of the storage or service of fine at Blue Hill. It's a small list and as Blue Hill is a small, not particularly luxurious nor overly expensive familiy owned restaurant, the list changes frequently. I don't always find wines I know, but have always been able to rely on the staff for suggestions. The truffle ice cream was a treat, but my suspicion is that it's reserved for vip diners, which raises the old question that was well answered in an old thread on this site--how do I get special attention and service at a top restaurant. The general answer, besides sacrificing your first born, is to become a regular and make yourself know to the restaurant. If they're not aware you're a repeat diner, remind them when you make your reservation and when they serve you. Continue to patronize the restaurant regularly. Few of us can afford to be honored guests at too many restaurants, but if you're lucky, the waiter from one such restaurant will become the captain at another. Making the right kind of special requests will help. It's essential that these are the sort that will mark you as a connoisseur, not a pain in the ass. Did I make it clear that my dinner at Blue Hill was superb? I get side tracked. I feel there's no longer a reason to mention that I feel strongly about how good this food is.

Are you safe in your assumption that Nightscotsman is not from Peru?

Having laid out their original web site and having discussed the idea of putting the wine list on the site, I'm guessing they will not be amenable to filling your request. Admittedly, one reason for not putting up the list is that it requires some work to keep the list up to date. Revising the menus is enough of a head ache, if you take it seriously. Nevertheless, I don't believe that was their primary reason for not publishing the list on the web. I curious to know why someone would want to have the list and why a restaurant might be inclined not to publish it's list. I believe Veritas had, or has, it's entire list on the web.

Your post is confusing, I thought you were starting to speak about the US here. I do like the part where you blame us for spreading the English language. Most Englishmen seem to want to take the credit/blame for that. I'm not yet convinced that the culpability with all this lies with l'Astrance. Most Americans who have managed to get a reservation there, and I know of those who did so early in the life of the restaurant and without connections, seem to have been treated well. If there has been a change in policy, I'd be curious in understanding why it's occurred. I find too many people all too eager to cut their noses to spite their faces and boycott a place on runor and innuendo. Worse yet, I've known too many people who urge others to sacrifice and boycott a product, place or group. For all that's been said, I'm not sure Americans are the most serious offenders when it comes to no shows, but I know my countrymen have a far more casual sense of responsibility about cancelling a reservation than do the French. I don't know how many of you have actually been to l'Astrance. I'm also not sure of how many guests it can serve, but my vague recollection is that a no show four top may deprive the restaurant of approximately ten percent of the evening's profits. This is also not a place with a bar.

I don't know if fat and sugar are naturally pleasing or if the taste for them has been culturally instilled, but rich cream laden chocolates seem to have more immediate appeal than the bitter chocolates of someone like Bernachon. The former also seem like the sort of indulgences you want to partake of until you're actually sick. I can't imagine gobbling Bernachon's intense palet's d'or one after the other in quick succession.

And it takes thirty seconds to eat an anchovy. But she's right. Anything worth doing is worth doing the best way.

There's at least a little bit of truth in everyone's post and of course, two or more sides to every story. I'm a bit surprised to find rampant francophobia in this forum though. That Pascal Barbot worked in either Australia or NZ and was eager to talk about what he learned there, how it affected his cooking and what influence it had on the food he served in l'Astrance, when he was interviewed by GaultMillau magazine. doesn't mean he isn't xenophobic, but it certainly speaks in his defense on the issue. Oddly enough I always hear Americans complaining about Americans in Paris. People always tell me they don't want to eat in such and such restaurant in Paris because it's full of Americans. My wife will have clients tell her how well they are treated in a hotel and then go on to say they want to stay elsewhere next time as the hotel is full of Americans. There are a lot of francophobic Americans, but I meet more that don't want to be with Americans. They complain if they're seated next to an American, but complain if the French complain about being seated next to an American. In fact we were a bit unhappy about a few of our small restaurant choices in Paris recently because there were too many Americans and they really threw off the service with their needs and lack of understanding. If our patience was strained, I can imagine the effect on the Parisians in the room. France is a small country and the French are a minority people in the western world. There's a difference between a club in the states that's restricted to white anglo saxon protestants and one that cultivates a minority ethnic membership. From time to time I can't always blame the French for some degree of xenophobia. The truth is that it used to be rampant across the society. The French didn't go abroad and they never learned another language. Today you see French tourists all over NY at all times of year and among those a generation or more younger than I am, they speak a fair amount of English. A far greater percentage of Frenchmen speak English, than Americans speak French. I've never met one who expected anyone in NY to speak his language, but I'm always running into Americans who can't speak a lick of French and are surprised they're not understood in France. The xenophobia cuts both ways, but American arrogance can be worse than French xenophobia. While we see ordering coffee with dinner as trivial, the chef sees someone who won't appreciate his food. I support the right of every diner to drink the beverage of his choice, but I also support the chef's right to choose who wants to serve. I just object to the stereotype of Americans as a group. I think we have more connoiseurs of food and wine than they do, although the percentage may be lower. My reservation at l'Astrance was made for me by an American in Paris. I'm not sure what that proves. I was treated exceptionally well, but I dined with a French born chef working in America who had been served by Christophe in Arpege and who had been introduced to Pascal in the kitchen of a NY restaurant. I suppose it proves only that I may be a suspected franco-sympathizer. Just to be clear, I reserved the highest level of corporal punishment, not just for no shows, but for those who abuse their friends' names and reputations in the process. A simple public humiliation in the stock would be sufficient for most no shows. I suspect more people are offended by a credit card than the necessity of a phone call. The simple solution is not at hand. I suggested the bonding company only because the credit card threat has been used without following up and has already become a hollow threat here in the states. I have had my hotel reservation billed months in advance at times, even here in the states. I don't know why a minimum charge couldn't be billed by the restaurant when the reservation is made, with beverage and supplemental charges billed later.

I had nothing to do with that. I swear. I just met her.

Someone had to work hard while Suvir told stories. The fables of Suvir would be a big seller. The fables will all have morals. I'm not yet sure what the moral of The boy who ate green tamarinds will be, but I suspect it will be about the dangers of curiosity. Of course we will one about the grown man being too generous and serving his friends in style rather than snatching his own ice cream quickly. He who hesitates is lost is the appropriate lesson. You mention the volunteers and I have to say that I found the good will, camaraderie, and general spirit of the chefs and helpers most uplifiting. This is a profession full of stories of egos. In general, the demonstrations were a breath of fresh air in the trade show. I don't know who was in the aduience, we managed front seats for the two days we attended.

To paraphrase May West, trust had nothing to do with it. I hadn't had lunch, I was hungry and it was free. Also I was curious. Indeed. Esilda was offended by those students sitting next to her who sat with their earpieces plugged into their music during the demo.

By the way, many cooks will break eggs one by one into a separate bowl before combining them with other ingredients so as not to ruin good ingredients with bad eggs.

There are all sorts of "expiration" dates. Some are best eaten before and may indicate a date after which quality or taste may begin to fade, while others are relevant to health concerns. All generally err on the side of safety with good margin. Nevertheless, I have had milk go bad well before the sell by date approached. Generally, they are indications of reasonable freshness and keep things from getting lost for periods of time in the chain of delivery to the consumer. You'll know a bad egg when you see or smell something funny--not ha ha funny. That exlains the bad milk.I will however offer my version of the conversation I had with the cheese manager of a chain of NYC "gourmet" shops. I will even preface my story by saying I understand that wrapping a nice cheese in platic wrap can have the same effect on cheese that wrapping a baby tightly in plastic mattress cover can on it. Nevertheless, one has to go out of one's way to find cheese handled with care in most NYC neighborhoods. I was annoyed to find a second wrap with a label from France indicating a date well back in history in relationship to both my purchase and the date on the outside wrapper placed by the local store in question. Inside the second wrap was a cheese that smelled like you'd expect of living thing wrapped in Saran wrap for a good month. The cheese monger was happy to refund my money and offer a second cheese on the house in return for my displeasure, although he refused to offer an opinion on whether the cheese was over the hill. He said they put a date on the package in France because they have to by law, but it's a fictional date. He added that the retailer in America was supposed to evaluate the cheese and place a realistic date on the package for the consumer. That would explain why, when I happened to speak with an exporter in France, he told me that some of his cheesemakers were upset by the condition of their cheese for sale in the US, when they visited. One of these days I'll stop ranting like that, but I'm afraid it'll only be after I have worse stories to tell.

I don't really know this shop well. It's outside my general range of shopping areas, but I understand they do what they do well when it comes to cheese. They carry only what they can sell. My daughter used to live nearby and touted it highly. The secret to a good cheese shop is not to have a wide selection, but to only offer that which is in prime condition. Too many places aim to be great before they come close to being good. I'm afraid I've had problems with Murray's at times, although I dont know of any that's better in this respect. There's more than a willingness to sell cheeses that are over the hill. They'll risk selling it to a connoiseur and losing future business rather than trash it. In NY, you have to know your cheese to be sure of making a reasonable purchase. In France, as Steve suggested, all you need do is find the best shops in any small town by word of mouth, and take their advice. As for a cheese that's ready in four days and they might inquire if it's to be eaten at lunch or dinner. Knowing your cheese isn't that much of a help here either as you can't often touch or smell the cheese and that's only useful if the cheese isn't cold. Selling cheese in NY is a business, not a "metier." One specialty shop where that isn't true is DiPalo's on Grand Street. I can almost guarantee Louis knows more about Italian cheeses, or at least those he carries, than anyone at Murray's, Artisanal or Fairway. Shop there in the middle of the week when it's not busy, be sure Louis is there and that you speak directly to him. He can dscribe the difference between summer parmesan and that made from milk in the winter. Ask which is better and he'll tell you about the differences in taste, but rarely can you get him to impose his tastes. Beyond the range of Italian cheeses, his selction is small. He often has an excellent Boucheron, but just as often he's out of it. It's not a big seller of his and he's more interested in not having it get to the point where it's over the hill than being out of it. It prevents him from selling bad merchandise or throwing away food. As a result, his prices are very low. He's a reliable source of excellent gruyere and emanthaler. I see the same rind stampings in other shops and DiPalo's prices are always lower. He also sells sliced American cheese. He supplies his customer's needs and never insults his client's tastes. I've at times tried to tout a higher grade of olive oil or balsamic vinegar to a customer near me and when that customer has left, Louis will tell me that the grade he was buying was a step up from his previous purchase and the much better grade will not be appreciated and a waste of money for the customere at this time. He'll educate you as much or as little as you indicate you want to be. By the way, they're moving across the street and Thanksgiving and Christmast are two of their busiest times. So be warned.

I love it. That's a classic. Fortunately not all my friends, and not even my foodie friends, log on to eGullet. I will get great milage out of that line at cocktail parties and dinner tables for a long time to come. Celine, you might just want to consider quoting it for your signature.

I can't overlook the possibility that the home made from scratch key lime pie sucks, but we all know that's not likely the case. I think one of the reasons many of us are here is that we're starved for the company of people who love food. We're content to talk to them even when we can't enjoy their company at the table. I think the only lesson is that "that's life." Life is unfair. Those of us who are lucky enough to have a few friends who share our love for food are indeed lucky. I'm lucky to live in NYC, not because the average person here is any more sophisticated in terms of food or anything else, but because we have a large pool of people in which to find friends and accomplices. Nevertheless, over the years we've taken people to wonderful restaurants that have left them wondering why we went out of our way to get to the restaurant and we've cooked for people who wonder why we went through so much trouble to cook. Invariably, the answer is because we enjoyed doing the cooking as much as anything else. We enjoyed the process the way a mountain climber likes climbing and not because anyone is entertained by the result. It says something about our culture that when we want to disparage someone's taste, we say his taste is in his mouth as if that's the least important of all tastes and as if the taste of food is something we all have and not worth cultivating.