Bux

For all the post nouvelle cuisines changes that have appeared in France and for all the decline in public taste since McDo has become a familiar site all over France, so much of that magnificent charcuterie looks as it did forty years ago when we first started visiting France. You do great justice to your subject though some of your readers may not realize how much choice there is in les Halles and in the rest of the shops in Lyon.

May Day, International worker's day (Fête du travail) May 1st, is a big holiday in France. Generally there are parades. The first of May is also the fête du muget, or lily of the valley. I don't think I've ever been in France on May first so I can't tell you if children still sell lily of the valley bouquets as I've been told they used to by an eldery French woman when talking of her childhood.

It's a widespread known delicacy from Spain to Turkey, I guess. I know it as Piedmontese "Capretto" or Swiss "Gitzi". I'm not familiar with kid in most of southern France. It must be that it's relatively flat beteeen the Pyrenees and the Alps. Then again, there's no shortage of goat cheese in that region of France.

I'm wondering if one could make a decent shepherd's pie/parmentier dish with a layer of pureed meat, almost a sauce perhaps and a layer of mashed potatoes. All gratineed, of course. I suppose it could taste like baby food. If Ice cream is acceptable, would custard, flan or creme brulee also be acceptable? If so, to move back one course, one could serve a vegetable timbale that's basically no more than a savory custard incorporating a puree of vegetable (spinach, peas, onion, mushroom, fennel, etc.) and perhaps a tomato sauce or mornay sauce.

I've known my share of women who had no interest in men without principle.

Had these forums been populated early on by Hannibal Lecter and Jeffrey Dahmer then people might think we're all cannibals. I think part of the point raised here is that the Bux-equivalent thrives in New York because it can feed on not only the range of food here, but the density of opinion regarding food. Let me tell you I've spoken about food to some pretty dense people. I'd like to hear more about Bux-equivalency, is there a Bux-equivalency test you can use to determine some quality? I'm thing of something like a litmus test for replacements.

It's also worth noting that some of the most exciting food in the western world is coming out of Spain and although dinner prices are exceedingly moderate (if that's a possibility rather than a contradiction in terms) the style is completely chef driven and owes its existence to haute cuisine in France. I would say that haute cuisine is much like the Venus di Milo. It's got legs.

All too often true. Progress in Spain is such that one can find it leading Europe in some areas and lagging far behind in others. As a gastronomic destination, the areas in which it hasn't caught up to France, can be as great a draw as the ones in which it has moved ahead. One has to wonder how long this co-existence of dynamic culinary creativity and traditional ways that defy world scale economics can last.

It's not so odd. It's very French. Most Frenchmen spend a far greater percentage of their life in the provinces. I love Paris, but there have been periods in our life when Paris was more often an airport at which we changed planes or picked up a rental car for a tour in the country. We certainly ate as well as we could have in Paris though we probably spent less money. The great and legendary three star destination restaurants of France have more often been those in the provinces, although there is agreater density of them in Paris.

Yes, it's Guy Martin who previously brought first one, and then two stars to a provincial Relais & Château restaurant and who has been named chef of the year by GaultMillau and Pudlowski. He's received other honors, but he's quietly been with Grand Vefour for over ten years plugging away and apparently not a media hound. Wells had one criticism then.

Off the top of my head, is it Guy Martin at Grand Vefour, and

Let me add my opinion that from what I've seen of Ducasse and his organization, I doubt that any but the most experienced and sophisticated diner will notice much of a difference between Piege and post-Piege Ducasse, which goes back to my earlier contention that for the one-shot three star experience, the difference in food quality between most of the three stars is not going to make as much of a difference as the rest of the experience. Difference in style, yes. Quality not as much. That's why Gagnaire's name is not coming up. His food is not representative of the main stream. That may also be why Taillevent may be a good choice. That restaurateurs and chefs such as Danny Meyer and Thomas Keller understand what it has to offer, is another reason why it may make an ideal place to experience three star luxury dining for someone with no previous experience not only at the two and three star level, but in Parisian dining.

Then I stand corrected when I said marcus and vilor were in touch with this particular member's needs. This is a universally applicable opinion. If anyone is going to have what may be a singular three star meal, it should probably be in a restaurant that's not recently undergone a major change at the top of the kitchen.

I don't remember the view to the street. The curtains may have been drawn or I had my back to that view, but the room looks much offwhiter. I recall it as grey, on the web site it looks beige and exceedingly dowdy. The artwork has changed. Needless to say, I didn't like the decor at Mix either. In my opinion, vmilor and marcus seem more in touch with the member's needs. Of course that's my subjective interpretation of his needs. Reasonable minds may disagree on esthetics and on food. Another random thought provoked by this thread is that one should always conform an important reservation. If you just show up and learn there's no reservation, you can share in the blame.

I think I disagree. I don't just happen to be living here. I'm as much a product of this city as I am a contributor to its culture, and those who unlike me, weren't born here, came here by need or design. I'm far more convinced by your earlier argument that a certain culturally intellectual person is drawn here and further influenced by the existing culture. That said, it may not be a commonly found culture, but it's not necessarily unique, except perhaps in scale.

Was there a practice of eating out in rural areas in the nineteenth and first decades of the twentieth century? Did farmers ever go out to dinner as often as city dwellers? I wonder. Once again I wonder if that's the case. I'm still more likely to place an emphasis on tying restaurants to density of population. Other factors than might favor city folk making greater use of restaurants is that cities along with their slums, also attract an dense core of weathy residents, but even more important a density of businesses and tourism, both of which feed the restaurant industry in a way that rural areas do not. Moreover, I'm willing to bet that rural rich are more likely to have larger kitchens and domestic help including a full time cook than city dwellers. There's also a social atmosphere of a city with its density of housing and offices that lends itself to people having many more aquaintances than they might in the country. Kin and close friend might best be entertained at home, but collegues and acquaintences are relationships that suggest public dining and drinking. The depression is before my time, but I don't see evidence that it broke the back of restaurants in rural areas anymore than it did in urban areas. I don't think they were there.

Robyn, We're never too old to learn. I just wanted to reinforce Robyn's point about the value of a student ID. It's much more valuable in Europe than in the US with many cultural discounts and for people our age the disadvantage is that you have to be a registered student and not necessarily someone who's learning anything.

I would not recommend AD/PA after reading this. I thought the room was awfully dour and the atmosphere a bit stiff. Admittedly the quality of the food is beyond reproach, but if someone is even thinking that a beautiful and historic room would improve his meal, I would not recommend AD/PA to that person. I've not been to either Taillevent or Grand Vefour, but they would offer the decor for someone looking to have that one three star luxury experience. Mind you, I am not so sympathetic to that. The appreciation of French cuisine is a sort of continuous process to me and not one I can file away as a single experience at the top. I don't mean to be as condescending as I am sure this sounds, but when you've eaten at the three star restaurants, you will better appreciate the bistros and after you've eaten at the bistros, you will better appreciate the three star cuisine. I'd rather invest small change learning to appreciate the haute cuisine in bistros than invest in a meal that runs hundreds of euros per person to learn how to appreciate bistro food.

We are several posts over the borderline separating food from economics and policitics as their own topic. Let's limit all posts to how the exchange rate affects your plans. Discussion of economic policy and politics is off topic and off limlts. Management reserves the right to remove all posts, past and future that are off topic.

There aren't many restaurants in Paris where I've had both the top of the line tasting menu for dinner and the special prix fixe at lunch. In fact, there's just one. The seasonal dinner degustation menu was a bit more than twice the price of the bargain lunch menu. It was a meal that rocked us. We were on the edge of our seat all meal long and spoke of little else than the food in front of us when we spoke at all. At least one course just left us speechless. It was a priceless evening. The lunch menu, on the other hand was very good, even excellent, but it was background food. It would have left a first time diner at the restaurant clueless about the chef's talent and the kitchen's capabilities. It was flawless, and maybe many Parisians never have a meal this good in the life for all I know, but it wasn't a meal that offered any insight into greatness. At a very expensive restaurant, the most expensive meal may well be the one that offers greatest value. The first hundred euros goes to pay for the overhead. The thing about one meal in a three star restaurant is that unless you have a yardstick, you don't always know how successful that meal is. Those meals I just referred to were at a two star restaurant. You can have epiphanies at two star restaurants and while I understand the desire to experience a three star dining experience once in one's life, if you are young enough, it may well be in your best interest to work your way up slowly, by learning and establishing your own benchmarks at lesser, but still world famous, restaurants. Of course where you've eaten in the US will affect your standards as well.

Yes - http://www.gaultmillau.fr/ - but I don't think it's as useful. Check it out. Edit: I just took a closer look than I had the first time. It appears all the text is there. Searching for restaurants or hotels may not be easy, but I need to check that better as well. Nevertheless, you will find the restaurant descriptions all there. I did a search on four toques and all the 19s came up.

To winemike's reasonable question, I add it would be useful to have some idea of what you were looking for from a three star experience.

That same tradition existed in France. It may have died first in France. That I don't know, but there are many dishes that require long slow cooking. "Boulangere" in the name of a recipe would be an indication it was at one time made in the baker's oven. In many, or most, cases, the housewife would bring the dish to bake in the oven between bread bakings for lunch and dinner. Once fired up, those brick ovens would stay hot all day anyway, so the baker really didn't expend much fuel and I imagine the housewives paid to use the oven. For them, it was much cheaper than heating their own oven, if they had one.

I'm thinking of our last visit to Paris. A three star meal was the highlight of our reservations. The rest of our meals all together didn't cost as much as that dinner, but almost all were interesting and some were special. Nevertheless, the one and two star places didn't attract us. It's not always like that, but there's been more than one post by more than one poster here on eGullet that has expressed the opinion that the best values in NYC are at the very top or at the ethnic restaurant level. When my means were far more modest than they are right now, it was the mid range of restaurants that went untested. Lots of meals in Chinatown would be interspersed with one at the top. A good part of our dining pattern these days however is determind by social dining with friends who may not like the nitty gritty ethnic dining we like and who don't care quite enough about haute cuisine to pay the tabs at the four star places. Thus we see more of the two star places too these days. Of course there are two star places that serve food pushing three or four stars and three star places whose rank is a testament to the lack or discernment of a critic.

There are a few restaurants whose character changes considerably from lunch to dinner. Any restaurants with large clear glass walls or exceptionally large windows is going to feel different from day to night. Jean Georges, is almost a completely different place. At lunch the room sings. At night it's just another well designed space, in my opinion. And it is a well designed space that supports fine dining. I don't need any more than that to enjoy my food to the fullest extent. I'm impressed with the height of the ceiling at Eleven Madison Park at night. By day, there's so much natural daylight, that I'm almost convinced there is no ceiling. I have only been to lunch at Asiate. The view is impressive in all aspects. On a sunny day, the changing shadows are fascinating and sky is just voluptuous. At night with reflections of the room off the dark glass, the sky will not exist. I don't know if the window lights from the skyline on Fifth Avenue will compensate or be as fascinating.