Rajala
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Posts posted by Rajala
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8 minutes ago, keychris said:
heating prior to capping won't stop that issue, because the chocolate has already contracted. If you heat it so much that it re-expands, you'll break it out of temper. It's more noticeable on circular shapes because you get an even contraction in all directions.
Haha, I think we discussed this elsewhere
I see, that makes sense. I wonder what you could do to make this result being less visible. If you're capping with a guitar sheet, what about placing it surface down on a flat surface?
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2 hours ago, nammer said:
Probably normal with the contraction that happens during crystallization. Did you use a heat gun to heat the tops prior to capping, Mats? I’ve seen professionals have the same thing happen to them, including Melissa Coppel.
No, I didn't. I never do that.
Maybe I should try that a bit. I have one, guess I'm a bit lazy, huh?
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2 hours ago, Jim D. said:
Now I see what you mean. I have never had this happen (at least that I have noticed) except with the demisphere molds. I will be using some of those molds in the coming week, so I will do some experimenting. Since those molds release so easily, I will try taking out a few pieces at various stages to see if the issue occurs. Have you had it happen with other molds? ... Now that I think about it, I had this same issue with filled Easter eggs last year--and those molds have a similar shape and also released very easily. At the time I thought I must have missed spraying the top edges. Meanwhile others with more experience may have ideas.
I've had it happened with other moulds as well, but not this much - so it's possible that this one is more prone to have this happen - as we've discussed.
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1 minute ago, Jim D. said:
I am not clear on what you mean by "small amount of chocolate manages to get between the mould and the chocolate shell." Do you mean some chocolate gets between the polycarbonate and the colored cocoa butter? I don't see how that is possible. I have never seen the colored c.b. contract at all. The idea is that when you pour in the warm chocolate, it binds to the colors to form a unit. Maybe if your layer of c.b. is too thick, you could get a problem. In any case it there is contraction, I don't see how you would stop it, unless you make the chocolate shell so quickly that there is no time for contraction--but you already said you had that advice. If you have more pieces, you might try carefully scraping off the chocolate that is showing at the edge and see if there is c.b. behind it. If there is, we will know that that theory is correct. I don't have similar chocolates right now, so can't test it myself.
No, it gets between the moulded shell and the mould when capping. Look at the picture, you'll understand what I mean. When the shell including the coloured cocoa butter together contracts, there's a tiny tiny amount of room between the shell and the mould, allowing some chocolate to slip in.
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2 minutes ago, Jim D. said:
I would say from that evidence that you are an ideal neighbor to have above a person, very considerate! But your method does explain some of the issues you are having, especially turning off the compressor. Quite naturally it will take some time to get back up to pressure, starting from scratch. Compressors with tanks are intended to come on when more air is needed so that operation is more or less seamless. I think my padding idea might allow you to run it continuously, but of course I don't know how loud it is (and you are right, it is the vibration that makes a difference). How well do you know your neighbor? Can you ask him? Or is that stirring up trouble, making him notice something he had not up to this point?
I have it standing on some styrofoam at the moment, but I don't believe that it's enough. I should probably, as you suggest, put it on a chair or so as well. I have thought about asking him next time i run in to him, but I hardly ever see him. I can hear him play his guitar occasionally though. But as long as I do this lifting thing, I couldn't be bothered to go knock on his door - he might hear a sound for around a minute maybe four five times over ten minutes(?). I've been using it once a week since I bought it, so it's not like I'm spraying 50 moulds at 11pm on a Tuesday evening.
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13 minutes ago, Jim D. said:
Crucial thing to know that you have to take neighbors into consideration. First, it's good of you to think of them. I spent many years living in apartments below people until finally my #1 criterion for choosing a place was that it had to be on the top floor. But even there you do have to consider those below you. If I were in your situation, I would find a way to cushion the sound--if the compressor is small enough, put it on a stool or table or wooden box with as much padding as possible beneath it--definitely not directly on the floor. That kind of noise can drive even nice neighbors to violence!
I have no idea how much he can hear it. I actually do it like this at the moment; lift it up - start it. Put it down when it's filled and unplug. Then spray a layer and start it up again holding it in the air, to refill the tank. It's like 56 dB or so, so it's not super noisy, but the vibrations is probably a problem.
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8 minutes ago, Jim D. said:
I have had that happen, particularly with demisphere molds (which is what yours looks like). Did you also have the issue that when you are adding ganache (or whatever the filling is) the chocolate shell can be dislodged easily? That is also a characteristic of flatter, spread-out cavities (while being an inconvenience, it is also a positive sign that your chocolate was in temper and is going to come out of the cavities easily at a later stage of the process). As for the chocolate showing around the bottom of the finished bonbon: I have always assumed it is because I did not completely cover the cavity with colored cocoa butter--that is, up to the very top. If you leave any spots unsprayed, they are, of course, going to show the underlying chocolate color--it's easy to miss this when you are in the process of spraying and you don't want to make too thick a layer of cocoa butter and you are hurrying because the cocoa butter may be getting too thick or cooling too much. The gap in color could also happen when you scrape after capping the mold. Not everyone agrees with the following, but I think you need to scrape off all the excess cocoa butter after spraying the mold so that you have a completely flat surface when you pour and scrape what will become the bottom of the cavities. Immediately after spraying a mold, I invert it over paper towels and rub it back and forth to get off as much c.b. as possible. Later I use an offset spatula and paper towels to clean off what I missed. Experience has taught me that leaving any bumps of c.b. will make scraping uneven.
Yeah, it's a demisphere. When you mention it, I never had as much chocolate showing on the edge as with this one. I thought it might've been that I scraped some of etc, but it doesn't seem to be the case - and the suggestion I got was that small amount of chocolate manages to get between the mould and the chocolate shell. It kind of make sense, and if you look at the picture below (right side), you can actually see that there's a small layer of chocolate on the edge of the shell. It wasn't dislodged easier than usual this time, but I've had times where the shell moves around when capping.
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So I've been trying a bit with spraying my moulds and an issue I have, that isn't related to the mould spraying itself, is that when the shell contracts from the mould, I get chocolate over my cocoa butter when I cap my bonbons. Any suggestions how to avoid this? I got the suggestion to cap earlier, before the chocolate contracts too much - but when would that happen? What's your experience with this? See the image, this is what I'm talking about, around the edge of the bonbon.
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On 15/02/2018 at 6:34 PM, Jim D. said:
I'm not sure why you find that a problem. Does the PSI on yours drop to zero just before the motor turns on to refill the tank? Mine drops until the PSI reaches a certain set point, when it comes on, but during that process, there is still enough PSI to continue working. The small compressors (such as the Iwata Studio series) provide compressed air on demand, and so don't require a tank for storage. The downside, of course, is that their PSI is low (and, in the case of the Iwata that I have, their price is relatively high).
Ah, I was in a rush. Forgot to mention that I live in an apartment, I'm thinking that my neighbour below me don't want to hear a vibrating sound all the time. But with the 1 gallon tank, I think that would be enough without going below the wanted pressure - since you need to wait short moments for the layers to dry.
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After getting a compressor which seems to be made for a spike gun (you're welcome to correct me, it's probably called something else), I would argue that one of the most important thing except the noise it makes, is the tank volume. You can follow my old posts and see that I write that it's no problem if you need to wait a little bit etc. But truth be told, you don't want to wait and you don't really want the compressor to start working when you've sprayed for a few seconds. If you're super patience, sure go ahead and get something small, but if I upgrade in the future I will go for something with a big tank. The 1 gallon I have today should be at least 2, maybe even 3 or 4. But I wouldn't really need that unless I start some kind of production.
However, the 1 gallon tank is a waiting game even when spraying a single mould. Just so you know. Based on your budget, however, I would follow Kerry's suggestions.
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Okay, thanks. Need to learn how fast each layer set I guess. I did four layers the other day, but still not a solid color (used titanium dioxide and moulded with milk chocolate -- so white). Maybe I should spray closer to the mould when I'm using 30 PSI? Have to experiment a bit during the weekend.
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How are you guys spraying your moulds? Do you just "blast" your mould in one go? Or do you spray a nice layer, let it dry and do that until you have enough butter in the mould?
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I'm a beginner, but can chime in with the group; I've read from pro's that you should never clean it with water. Warm it up before next use and spray the old color out.
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So, I sprayed a little petit gateau I made with a 50/50 mix of cocoa butter and white chocolate, with a HVLP gun at 0.8mm nozzle, and had NO issues at all with that. Just for future reference. I even did it below 30 PSI, maybe 25-ish?
Here's the result;
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They look amazing! Is it the color of the chocolate that you see as well? The darker parts.
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Small update: spraying at 60 psi, at least with a HVLP gun is crazy. Way too much for my kitchen. I tried to cover up my countertop with plastic and more, but that cloud of cocoa butter just got everywhere. Good thing I wore mouth/nose protector so I didn't breath the cocoa butter.
I just ordered an airbrush, I think that will be enough for me - but we'll see. Again, thanks for all the help guys.
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I ended up buying a pretty cheap compressor. 1HP. 4 liters tank. The tank could've been a little bit larger, can't do 60 fps for very long, but I'll manage. It was kind of "cheap" at $150. It even came with a nail gun, not sure what to do with that, except nailing stuff?
I do need to pick up a moisture separator for it, which I'll do tomorrow and try spraying my first mold after that. Can't wait to see how much I'll mess up my kitchen. Maybe my dog will turn red as well?
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8 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:
I wasn't thinking that you can't do it. I was thinking more along the lines that if I was standing in front of a bunch of mousses that needed to have it done, I think I'd rather have the output of the Wagner over the precision of the airbrush in that situation.I hear you. Don't really need that much output though. But I might buy a Bosch paint gun just for this, anyway. We used one at a course I attended.
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Thanks. I actually looked at the Fuji earlier, more out of curiosity than wanting to buy. I don't really understand them, seems to be a whole different kind of compressor?
This is the plan for me now; I'm going to buy a cheap air compressor this weekend, see if it's enough and if not return it for something like we've discussed. I just want to get started with this
I found what seems to be pretty much the CA Air in Sweden, but it's so much more expensive here. Maybe I can find something similar in Germany, as mentioned earlier. We'll see!
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1 minute ago, Jim D. said:
@Rajala, I looked up the specs on 3 California Air Tools compressors and took the prices from Amazon:
The 4620, the one I actually got:
2HP
maximum PSI of 125
holds 4.6 gal.
2 tanks
runs at 70 decibels
costs $280.60
The 4610, the one I originally ordered:
1HP
maximum PSI of 120
holds 4.6 gal.
2 tanks
runs at 60 decibels
costs $197.50
The 2010 that you mentioned:
1HP
maximum PSI of 90
holds 2 gal.
1 tank
runs at 60 decibels
costs $165
I was told that the advantage of two air tanks is that any moisture drains from the top one to the bottom, dissipating on the way down to where the release value is located. With an added moisture trap, I don't think that is a big issue (just my opinion). As you would be seeking max pressure of around 60 PSI, any of the three will easily accomplish that. I think the 2010 is less expensive because it has only one tank, reaches a lower PSI than the others, and holds 2 gal. (meaning it would take longer to fill each time the pressure diminishes). The 4620 is a bit louder. If space is a major consideration, then the 2010, with only one tank, would be less tall, though I think it occupies the same floor space as the others.
Yes, I did the research, but I knew absolutely nothing about air compressors when I started and got all this information from the web, eGullet, and Grex support staff. I am "mechanically challenged," to put it gently and would be embarrassed if anyone saw the length of the email chain between me and Grex. Please feel to ask any more questions, and I will answer if I can.
You could say that I'm "mechanically challenged," as well. No problems with computers etc, but these things? My dad would look weirdly at me if I asked him about this.
I'm starting to change my mind, as in the last post. I think I'll go for one of these - at least something similar, that I can find in Sweden or from Amazon Germany etc. I guess the most important thing isn't the max PSI, but that it can hold around 60 psi for at least a couple of seconds, before it needs to recharge. Can yours do that? Overall, how satisfied are you with your compressor? Does it feel like you got what you need? Does it ever feel like you would need something more? I guess the spray gun / airbrush is a totally different thing, but I know that I'll go for something mid range at first for that.
I sent an email to a couple of Swedish vendors (probably rebranded Chinese products), stating that I needed 60 PSI for 5-10 seconds (might be too much? Not sure), and that it should be able to give me that to a spray gun/airbrush with a 0.8mm nozzle.
Oh, and before I forget. I'm happy to get a copy of that scheme on how to connect the moisture trap etc.
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1 hour ago, Jim D. said:
Grex recommends a 1HP compressor for use with its airbrush with a 0.5 or 0.7mm nozzle (0.7 is the largest they make). When I ordered my setup, they were out of the 1HP and so I got a 2HP for the same price. The compressor was a California Air Tools compressor (model 4620), rebranded by Grex. I don't know where you are located, so don't know what is available to you. This compressor is advertised as unusually quiet (the company has a video demonstrating its sound level). It's not huge, but it is considerably larger than my earlier compressor. If you do go with a larger compressor, then yes, you should probably add a moisture trap (these are very inexpensive), especially if you are in a climate that has high humidity. If you get to that point, I have a very helpful diagram that the support person at Grex sent me showing how the whole system fits together and what to buy to make it work.
But on reading your restated numbers (two molds at a time) and considering your space and noise limitations, I think you may have to settle for something on a smaller scale.
As for using one device for both applications (bon bon decorating and velvet spraying), unless you really thin out chocolate with a lot of cocoa butter, I think chocolate is more viscous than cocoa butter by itself, so I doubt that an airbrush would do the velvet spray you want, but I have never tried that. Every video I have seen shows a sprayer type machine in use (such as one of the Krea sprayers or a regular paint gun). High-volume chocolatiers use a sprayer for decorating their molds, but the reservoirs on those hold a lot of cocoa butter, so you could use a sprayer for both applications, but, for chocolates, you would need a (probably prohibitively) large amount of cocoa butter.
Oops, I wrote a looong reply and I accidentally reloaded the page.
https://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-CAT-4620AC-Compressor/dp/B005SOD08M - Is this the compressor you've got? It's not THAT big, but a little bit too big for my taste. The 1 HP looks acceptable to me. I could just make space for it somewhere I guess. The price for this unit is totally within my budget though.
https://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-2010A-2-0-Gallon/dp/B00TDNKBMC/ - Do you know if this is the 1 HP you were supposed to buy? Price wise it's really good, not sure why the two models with less hp's are more expensive? I probably misunderstand something here.
All in all, it seems like a compressor which is more "industrial" is the way to go. You get more "bang for the buck". Do you happen to know why these compressors which seems to be suited for paint spraying models are more expensive, but offers less power? I would guess that they're more designed for precision than the CA Air Tools ones? Maybe I'm wrong, you might know - you seem to have really done your homework here.
I'm truly grateful for your replies, I'm so lost at the moment. Thanks!
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13 hours ago, pastrygirl said:
It works OK. I think you want to go with as powerful a compressor as you can afford. Cocoa butter will pass through the 3 or 5 mm nozzle, but more PSI ought to push more CB through the gun faster, resulting in better coverage. The silver lining of low pressure is that you don't have a ton of over-spray to clean up.
I've used a Wagner airless paint sprayer for velveting frozen mousses, and it's a whole different scale. Much higher volume of chocolate going through, less precision.
4 hours ago, Tri2Cook said:
And, in my opinion, there's nothing better for that particular task on an investment vs. result basis.It's about money, of course. But it's also about space and sound. I'm not sure what to do.
1 hour ago, Jim D. said:From my experience with the Grex airbrush (detailed in the airbrush thread) I think you would be happier with 60PSI. I got by for a few years with a small compressor providing less air, but the difference is dramatic. The compressor to which you linked is not inexpensive, but with a few more dollars (pounds), you can get more. I would think a primary consideration for you is whether you think you will ever increase your production beyond the 15 molds you mention (I also began this as a hobby). Lower PSI = slower production (sometimes maddeningly slower). No matter which setup you have, you will have to stop from time to time to heat up the cocoa butter; with a higher PSI, you will not need to do this as often and the maddening factor is diminished. Although some airbrush/cocoa butter experts say only a higher PSI can produce the desirable shine, I did not have noticeable difficulty with getting a shine with my previous compressor. So my advice would be that if you think (even dimly now) that you may do this as more than a hobby with 15 molds at a time, spend more money now for a good airbrush and higher PSI compressor and avoid my waste of money (not to mention having to decide how to get rid of the earlier compressor).
In regards to 60PSI. I can probably find a compressor which is not that more expensive, but it would be so much larger and I live in a one room apartment. I guess that I would have to mount a moisture separator manually etc if that's the case though. But maybe I'm wrong? You're saying that I can get something much better for not that much more money, do you have any suggestions? I'm not sure what to do, as I wrote above.
I'm going to restate what I wrote earlier; it will be maybe 2 molds each time, maximum. Most of the time probably just one. But I do think as you write, in regards to that it might increase if it turns to a small extra job or something like that. What I also think is that it would be nice to have a machine that I can use for both cocoa butter for my molds, and one that can manage to spray cocoa butter over my frozen entremet.
From what most people say; it seems like a cheap one will do. I might get a bit frustrated over that the spray is kind of weak. I should go with at least 0.5mm in nozzle width. For a lower viscosity liquid, like a cocoa butter and chocolate mix - I should probably have a bit more, maybe 0.8mm. I know for sure that the one that pastrygirl have, can manage the velvet "spray" as well, with a 0.8 nozzle. I think I should look at what a bigger and stronger one would cost me, and see if the difference is too much or not - and see if I have space for it as well.
Any other suggestions are welcome, and thanks for taking the time to reply.
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@leopardotsHow has the Sparmax been working for you?
For everyone else who might read;
I'm currently looking to get a compressor and some kind of paint gun / airbrush. However, I'm not sure exactly what to get. So far, by reading this thread, it seems like I should use a .5 mm nozzle for cocoa butter. However, will this be able to handle something with higher viscosity, like a mixture och chocolate and cocoa butter for spraying froze mousse to get the velvet effect? Or would I need a wider nozzle for that? I also read some comments that I need 60 PSI to get the high gloss shine on my chocolate bonbons. Is this totally true? Will it be dull and lifeless(lol), if I'm working at 40 PSI? There are lots of compressor claiming 60 PSI, however, they won't last long at all at that number.
One thing to note is; I'm doing this as a hobby. I will not spray more than 2-4 moulds at a time. So it doesn't have to be a crazy expensive compressor just to be able to spray 15 of them in a couple of minutes.
I've been looking at https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Sparmax-TC-610H-Airbrush-Compressor.html#SID=2025 and think that I will get it, but some input from you guys regarding nozzle width, PSI and shine would be really helpful.
How has the compressor you bought from Amazon been working for you? Have you bought something new or are you still working with it?
Pistachio paste
in Kitchen Consumer
Posted
I got a quick question regarding the stone grinder. How much noise does it make? The video someone posted with the pistachios didn't seem that bad, but it's hard to know from a video. I'm thinking about getting one to, yeah, make my own pralines etc.