[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

To hear current cocktail geeks talk, you'd think that prior to Dale's appointment at the Rainbow Bar, cocktails were a complete wasteland in America, and that everybody was thoughtlessly tossing back vodka martinis without any vermouth.

That's not the case.

As far back as the 80s, I decided for myself I preferred gin to vodka.

My preference for gin over vodka goes back to the early 80s as well, and legal drinking age was some ways in the future for me back then. This is because a bottle of vodka was unknown in our house, and yet all the grownups were Martini drinkers. Heck, I can go one better than that: I had my first taste of Fish House Punch in the mid-1970s, most likely long before Dave Wondrich had even heard of it. Later, as the 80s progressed, stealing from the family stash of FHP, which my parents aged in multiple gallons for a year before using it in their annual Xmas parties, became the standard way for all the Kinsey children to get illicit booze.

The point of all this is that, whule there were a few places that made a servicable if not particularly distinguished Sidecar, Old Fashioned or Manhattan back in the pre-revival days, they were not exactly thick on the ground. It is more or less accepted as fact that it was mostly, although not exlusively home bartenders who kept the craft of the cocktail alive between Prohibition and the revival. Is it any coincidence that the most important cocktail book written in this period was written by and for home bartenders?

Getting back on topic, is it just coincidence that there's nowhere with a broader selection of drinks combined with M&H's door policy? Part of M&H's limited drink selection is surely a consequence of interior design as much as anything else! It's not clear to me, for example, that the M&H space could not have accommodated, for example, one less booth and instead had, say, 4 extra seats at the bar, along with the corresponding space on the back bar for extra shinies. Is it just the case that the "serious cocktail drinker" demographic is so limited that a second bar of that type can't be done profitably?

What makes you think Milk & Honey is so profitable?

Isn't it as simple as you need to do a lot of business to justify having that much inventory?

Depth of inventory and breadth of inventory are two different things. Even if you don't go through all that much rye, you can still have 4 different brands. You just don't keep a case of each brand. M&H has a relatively narrow selection of brands because they just don't have all that much space to accommodate that many brands. So they pick the two gins that they like, and that's it -- they decide they can have dry white vermouth, but not Lillet. These are the compromises you have to make when working in a tiny space (which are compounded by not doing all that much volume).

This is why only the larger places such as Pegu Club are able to have 14 different kinds of gin.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

Of course, you could always confine most of your cocktailing to a place like Milk & Honey, if you're willing to pay the higher prices, put up with the hassle of needing to make a reservation, and okay with having to go Chinatown in the middle of the night to get a drink.

Just to elaborate, how is any of what you describe more of a burden than going to a bar in the East Village (where I don't live), getting told there's an hour wait, leaving, going to another bar in the East Village (where I still don't live), getting told there's an hour wait, leaving, going to a third bar in the East Village (haven't moved there yet), getting told there's an hour wait, and then either going over to the northern edge of Soho, where I know I'll be able to get in, or going home (which is what I usually do at that point)?

You mean like if you tried to go to Momofuku Ssam and it was an hour wait, and then you walked to Momofuku Noodle bar and that was a 45 minute wait, and then you walked to Redhead and that was a 45 minute wait and then you walked to Soba-ya and that was an hour wait? Same deal. But somehow we don't have the expectation that we'll be able to walk into Momofuku Ssam whenever we want.

Honestly, I never have a hard time getting into the EV cocktail bars because I either go at opening, or late at night. And I never try to go on Thursday, Friday or Saturday. If you want to get in there at 9 PM on Friday. . .

After-work cocktails are supposed to be relaxing, not a replay of the most annoying aspects of your workday.

Right. I get that. And I can understand your frustration, and even share it. Partly, I suppose your work schedule is to blame. If you aren't ready for that after-work drink until 7:30 or 8:00 most nights, you're behind the 8-Ball for getting in to most places. This is also trur with respect to getting into most small, popular restaurants at this hour. Me? If I'm going out for a cocktail after work, I can be there at 6:00 and get a seat. But it's certainly true that I'd go to these bars a lot more frequently if it weren't so cumbersome to get in for much of the evening -- which is a double-edged sword, because I want to see my friends, but I also want them to have success and to make money and sometimes these things are mutually incompatible. Along with the fact that Audrey is my cocktailian friend of longest standing and the fact that I think Del, Kenta and Scott are doing really great work right now, the fact that I can almost invariably get a comfortable seat with little hassle is another reason that I often find myself at Pegu Club for cocktails (or course, I don't try to go there at 8:00 on Thursday through Friday either).

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

These aren't entirely comparable, though; at least as far as I recall, the prices at Pegu were exclusive of tax, so the actual price is somewhat higher.

You're mistaken about that. The list price of the cocktails at Pegu, and indeed at every cocktail bar of which I am aware, is inclusive of tax.

Moreover, the member discount at M&H applies to all guests as well... I guess it's not possible to completely internalize all the savings here, but I don't think the difference is as stark as you are making it sound, and you are paying something for M&H being substantially less crowded and quieter

That's exactly what I am saying. You are paying a substantial premium (this is simply true, no matter how you try to spin it), you are going through a certain amount of hassle with respect to location and reservations, you are limiting yourself to the smallest ingredients range and selection of any cocktail bar in the City, and you are limiting yourself largely, if not exclusively, to classic or "period style neo-classic" cocktails from one "school of mixology." These things are especially strong limitations because, if you want to eliminate the substantial premium and pay the same as you would pay in the other top cocktail bars, you and need to go there often enough so that you and your friends purchase at least 100 cocktails in a year. In exchange you are getting a quieter and more exclusive setting. Don't get me wrong... I love Milk & Honey. It's a great place. But it's not a place I'd want to go five times more than Dutch Kills, PDT, Pegu Club, Flatiron Lounge, Death & Co. and Mayahuel combined. But, really, to each his own. I can see how this would totally be worth it to some people. But I don't think we should pretend that it's not more expensive or that Milk & Honey doesn't come along with it's own baggage.

And, certainly, compared to PDT, 15 vs 13+tax is a much smaller difference, and 9 vs 13+tax a much smaller one.

It's been a little while since I've been to PDT, but historically the cocktails there have been twelve dollars. And I believe you must be mistaken about the price not being inclusive of tax. This might be true for the food, but I doubt it.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

Why do you insist that M&H has "much higher prices"? It's a different cost structure, but I would argue that 325/yr + 9/drink is cheaper on an annual basis than the 13/drink the EV places charge (and even better once you consider that the 9 is after tax, while at least at PDT the 13 is before tax, even accounting for the expectation of higher tipping at M&H).

The non-member price at M&H, the last I heard, was still the same fifteen bucks per drink they were charging in the old model. To my mind, twelve bucks a cocktail at Pegu versus fifteen bucks (25% more) at M&H equals "much higher prices."

But let's take a look at the membership model: Members pay six bucks less than the non-member price for cocktails. If a yearly membership is 325 bucks, that means that you have to buy approximately 54 drinks at M&H on a yearly basis to reach the break-even point versus the non-member prices at M&H. If we compare the membership fee and membership prices to Pegu Club's $ 12 cocktails, it would take 108 drinks to reach the break-even point. Now... I suppose if you go to Milk & Honey a lot (let's say, twice a month to the tune of 5 drinks per visit) you would eventually have a savings over their non-member prices, or if you go to Milk & Honey a whole lot (twice a month to the tune of 10 drinks per visit, or 4 times a month to the tune of 5 drinks per visit) you would eventually have a savings versus Pegu Club. But, of course, that doesn't leave a whole lot of time and money for going anywhere else.

So... this is what I mean when I say that the drinks at Milk & Honey are significantly more expensive than the drinks at other cocktail bars. It's not a criticism, really, because you do get something for the extra money. But it is a fact.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

People have been getting together for cocktails in their homes since Prohibition. That's nothing new. And, for a long time, if you wanted a quality cocktail, the only place you could go was someone's home.

But now, I don't see this being a major player. Compared to most anyone, and even most cocktail aficionados, I have a ridiculously well-stocked liquor cabinet. But even what I have doesn't begin to scratch the surface of what even a moderately well-stocked cocktail bar would have. That means that there are things I can get at Pegu Club of Mayahuel or wherever that I simply can't get at home. And, of course, unlike, say, Brian Miller or Giuseppe Gonzalez, home cocktailians aren't spending hour upon hour each week thinking about mixology and developing/tewaking cocktail recipes.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

I care, Sneaky. I care.

The reality, I think, is that places like M&H are always going to be niche places with limited clientele that charge much higher prices and actually aren't terribly profitable. But, on the other hand, you get a civilized setting and you get to rub elbows with a much greater proportion of like-minded drinkers. I note, however, that no one, not even Sasha, has sought to replicate that model in NYC.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

The dirty secret is that there just aren't enough "serious cocktailians" who don't have any vodka-drinking friends (or aren't willing to go through Sneakeater's machinations to discourage such friends from ordering the likes of a Lychee Martini) to sustain profitability at what, by this time, is more than ten reasonably serious cocktail bars*. That's equals somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 spots to fill across the City every night, and when you figure that each one of those spots is likely to "turn" at least three times a night, it's really 1,800 spots. Multiply that by seven days and you have 12,600 spots combined that these bars need to fill every week in order to stay open -- and most of them would like to do more business than that. This is the economic reality. For sure there aren't enough "true cocktailians" (however one may choose to define this) in the City of New York to even begin to make a dent in this. Does anyone suppose that there are enough cocktail-interested people with no Vodka Soda-drinking friends or dates to fill all these spots? I very much doubt it.

The very strong vibe I get from you, Sneakeater, is that you're somehow resentful of the fact that these rubes, who don't "get" cocktail culture as much as you do, are taking up seats you would like to occupy and thereby making it more difficult for you to get into your favorite bars. The reality is, unfortunately, that there simply aren't enough people like you around for these bars to stay in business (not that it would help your situation if there were). I assume you would like for your favorite bars to make money so they can stay open? Of course, you could always confine most of your cocktailing to a place like Milk & Honey, if you're willing to pay the higher prices, put up with the hassle of needing to make a reservation, and okay with having to go Chinatown in the middle of the night to get a drink. By the way... I don't know if anyone's noticed, but Sasha isn't exactly lighting Cuban cigars with hundred dollar bills.

Meanwhile, there is a way to have a cocktail bar that is not overrun with non-cocktailians: Locate in a part of the city that makes it a destination and won't automatically attract the very crowd you disdain by virtue of its location. As great as it may be to have three Serious Cocktail Bars located in the East Village in the middle of the various Momofukus, etc... it is also the middle of Hipster Douchebag Central, and anyone who opens a bar in the middle of Hipster Douchebag Central shouldn't be too surprised when, lo and behold, a bunch of hipster douchebags present themselves at the bar looking for cans of Porkslap for themselves and Vodka Sodas for their dates. Thinking back to ye olden days, I can't remember ever seeing a hipster douchebag at Bemmelmans Bar in the Carlyle Hotel. But that's because, as far as medical science has been able to determine, hipster douchebags begin to wither and die whenever they journey above 14th Street. Similarly, while Dutch Kills in Long Island City does plan to be both a neighborhood bar offering beer and wine, it should also usually be relatively easy to get a seat there for a quality cocktail. On the other hand, locating away from the usual haunts of the unwashed masses can have its economic negatives. Pegu Club, for example, would be turning away people at the door 7 nights a week if they were located on St. Marks and 1st instead of Houston and West Broadway.

Getting back to vodka and not offering it at all in some bars... I think probably the best way to handle something like this is to advertise it. Make an ironic sign somewhere that says, "No vodka. No kidding." or something like that. And, if you have menus, put a little preface at the beginning of the menu about the philosophy of the bar, what kind of drinks you serve, and why you don't have vodka or serve doubles. If someone gives you crap about it, (i) they can't say that they weren't warned by the sign right there on the back bar, and (ii) instead of wasting your time, you can simply hand them a menu, tell them to give it a look, and that you'll be right back with them -- if they decide this is not the bar for them, they'll leave and you haven't wasted any of your time.

* Figure: Apothéke, B Flat, Brandy Library, Clover Club, Death & Co., Dutch Kills, Employees Only, Flatiron Lounge, Little Branch, Mayahuel, Milk & Honey, PDT, Pegu Club, Tailor.

[Low-effort, low-mess pizza @ home]

That sounds like a great meal, however on the last point I feel compelled to admit: I had a pizza stone in the oven and I did go back. While a pizza stone is indeed a nice addition to the oven, I found it to be inconvenient and messy. Just leaving it in didn't work because we do too much other cooking in our oven and the stone interferes with baking cookies and the like. It also makes adjusting the racks difficult. But the worst part was the mess: flour and/or cornmeal on the oven floor, the kitchen floor, the counters, etc. So my goal became to see how well I could do with a sheet pan to contain the whole process.

Interesting. I tried it in a sheet pan a time or two, and just didn't find the result good enough to be worth the trouble. Like others, I like to use a sheet of parchment cut to be just a touch smaller than my baking stone (spritz the parchment with spray-oil and sprinkle on some cornmeal to ensure good release if you use a wet dough as I do). This is easy-on, easy-off, low cleanup fuss.

Also... where are you putting your baking stone? In a gas oven, the baking stone belongs on the floor of the oven, not on a rack. Using a baking stone shouldn't interfere with rack adjustment or any of those things whatsoever.

Some recent discussions on other topics have actually led me to experiment with lower rather than higher temperatures. I've had some early, promising results but am not yet ready to draw any conclusions.

Lower temperatures can be good depending on the style.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

The difference, though, is that the people who go to Babbo because it's a hot restaurant or they've seen Mario on TV have some idea what they're getting.  They're not disrespectful of the entire premise of the restaurant.

I fundamentally disagree with this. They may not be disrespectful in the way you think people are disrespectful in SCBs, but the idea that average person from Peoria who saw Mario on FoodTV and got a reservation at Babbo knows what he's getting is ridiculous. Internet fora less foodie-oriented than this (and to a certain extent this one) abound with reports from people who were underwhelmed with the food at Babbo. Think back to those early episodes of The Sopranos (you know, the ones before it turned into a Mafia Soap Opera) when Tony and the boys went to Italy... in one scene they're served an amazing Italian meal that includes what looks like spaghetti al nero di seppia, and Paulie Walnuts says something like, "what is this crap? Can I just get some macaroni and gravy?"

But, really, the comparison between a restaurant and a bar is not an apt one. For better or worse, people act and think differently about bars than they do restaurants. You can complain about it, but it's not going to change.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

If you want a Serious Cocktail Bar to be like a restaurant, then make it like a restaurant: Don't play any music. Everyone sits at a table or has a comfortable seat at the bar. Admit only a limited number of people. Customers are presented with a menu and expected to order from it. Cocktails should be prepared largely out of sight in another room and delivered to the customers. Or, if you want the sushi bar experience, then make it so that only the cogniscenti aren't too intimidated to order "omakase" from the bartender. Charge extra-high prices. And book seats by reservation. There is a place like this, of course: Milk & Honey. And you know what? It's overrun with people who are there for the scene.

Meanwhile, are you honestly suggesting that it's next-to-impossible to score a reservation at Babbo because tons of people who really know and appreciate not only Italian cusine, but Mario Batali's special brand of "Manhattan as a region of Italy" asethetic? Hardly. 80% of them at least are there because they've seen Mario on TV and they like spaghetti and they perceive Babbo as being a cool place. The same thing goes 1000 times more for Momofuku.

What this means is that the very best a cocktail bar or restaurant can hope for is that some minority of the customers really "get it." That's the reality.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

I gather you're referring to this thread?

I'm not sure that this point was made by you or refuted by me in this thread quite the way you put it here. Regardless, I'm not sure what that would have to do with this conversation, context being everything.

[New York Serious Cocktail Bars]

Yep. It's definitely true that customers at a bar can be jerks. It's also true that a large proportion of bar customers at most any bar are really there for other reasons besides a keen interest in mixology. I've always found it ironic that a certain species of customer will want to be in bars with reputations for top quality mixology, and then don't avail themselves of that resource. Can any one bar really "mix" a better Vodka Soda than another bar? For these people, it's fundamentally about the "scene" and being associated with the "cool" they perceive to exist connected with these bars.

[The (Re) Birth of Vodka- Is It Possible?]

What about Wylie (otherwise the nicest guy in the world)?  I can't see him making, say, a plain grilled steak because someone asks for it.

Again, a restaurant with a set menu is not a good example. It is not standard practice to come into a restaurant, never mind a restaurant such as wd-50, and say, "I'll have a such-and-such."

If one wanted to have a bar like that, it could be possible. Simply make it known that the bar is offering what is on the menu and nothing else.

Phil can get away with the Yasuda approach in NY (rightfully). I doubt he could in say Austin.

I will say that I think there is a big difference between telling a customer that you can't make a Vodka Soda because you don't have any vodka (which is what Phil did), and telling a customer that you can't make a Vodka Soda because it's a crap drink for rubes. Presumably, the bartenders at Mayahuel wouldn't refuse to make any drink ordered that they could make using the ingredients they had on hand.

I think that the best stragegy is exactly the one Phil is using: don't like vodka? don't like vodka drinks? don't want to serve vodka drinks? that's not what you're all about? Then don't stock vodka. Problem solved. It's made all the easier because Mayahuel is a tequila-focused bar.

[The (Re) Birth of Vodka- Is It Possible?]

But why should someone ordering a Double Vodka Tonic at Phil's bar be treated any better than someone ordering a burger with ketchup at Masa would be?

This is not a particularly apt comparison, because Masa doesn't have the means to make a burger with ketchup. The normal restaurant comparison isn't a great one in general, because restaurants serve from a menu and there isn't a lot of custom plate-making (and plenty of restaurants have a "no substitutions" policy).

The sushi bar comparison, however, is an interesting one. Asking for a vodka soda at a fancy cocktail bar might be like sitting at the bar at Sushi Yasuda and asking for an "inside out California roll." Most likely, Yasuda would just go ahead and make you one. If not, he might suggest that he doesn't have the traditional ingredients, but could make something similar using real crab leg meat, etc. Meanwhile, I doubt very much that Yasuda would treat you like a rube. So, there's the answer to your hypothetical: you would be treated nicely and be given what you ordered. I'm not familiar enough with Masa's system (isn't it all omakase?) but have my doubts as to whether even Masa would treat someone ordering a California Roll with disdain.

If you have a place that's popular enough that you can continue to do big business even if you develop a reputation for being deliberately rude to people who ask for vodka, more power to you. Certainly the reputation of having a rude maitre d' hasn't hurt Babbo's business any.

Meanwhile, I think that Mayahuel, because it is a tequila-focused cocktail bar, has a good reason for not having any vodka compared to most "general purpose" cocktail bars. Really, the reason to go to Mayahuel should be because you want to have tequila cocktails. Asking for a vodka soda at Mayahuel is, I suppose, a bit like asking for a burger at Jean-Georges. The waiter at Jean-Groege would likely tell you "no," but would do it in a pretty nice way. Knowing Phil's lighthearted ways and easy familiarity with customers, I'm quite sure that he offered his thoughts on the double-vodka order in a way that would not offend.

(And of course it pisses me off even more when people like that are making it impossible for me to get into these places.)

The sad reality is that the majority of the people who go into any bar, do so for motivations and reasons other than the quality and inventiveness of the cocktails (even if they might like to be in a place known for these things). I'm quite sure that for every customer bellying up to Jerry Thomases bar in search of the greatest cocktails of the age, there were at least a dozen who were there because of the scene or to get a buzz on.

[Top 100 Bars in America]

I guess I assumed it was cocktails-focused because, according to Katie, it appeared in the new Food & Wine cocktails book.

The Esquire list is not the same as the Food & Wine list, by the way.

Apparently 14 of the 100 bars are in NYC, consisting of: Apothéke, B Flat, Brandy Library, Clover Club, Death & Co., Dutch Kills, Employees Only, Little Branch, Milk & Honey, PDT, Pegu Club, Prime Meats, Rayuela and Tailor.

I suppose that if you just arbitrarily set the number at 100, at some point you take what you can get. But I guess in my mind a "great cocktail bar" should be on the level of a first-tier outfit in NYC, and I can't imagine that there are more than a handful right now outside of the City on that level. Any list that includes the likes of Apothéke, B Flat, Employees Only, Prime Meats and Rayuela (second tier at best in NYC, but all likely places that would be the #1 cocktail destination in most cities) but doesn't include Flatiron Lounge seriously calls the authority of the list into question, in my opinion. The inclusion of Dutch Kills strikes me as a bit suspicious, considering that it wasn't open when they sent the book to press. Meanwhile, with the opening of Mayahuel, the list is already out of date.

[25 Most Important Restaurants of the Last 30 Years]

One thing about a "last 30 years" list like this is that there are some restaurants out there which may turn out to be very important and influential looking back from the perspective of another 10, but it's hard to say now. And, of course, some of the newer ones that seem really important now may turn out to be not so important after all.

Really, if we're going to try to make these judgments about a 30 year period, we have a much better basis for judging restaurants that opened from 1969 to 1999 than we do those which opened from 1979 to 2009. How can we really say anything about the ultimate significance of a restaurant that opened in 2008?

Jaleo may be worthy as it was one of the first and best to really popularize traditional Spanish cooking in the US.

That might make sense looking back from another dozen years or so, provided that Spanish cuisine takes of and becomes a significant player in the American restaurant scene and culinary zeitgeist. But, thus far, it hasn't.

[25 Most Important Restaurants of the Last 30 Years]

Mini Bar, if you are going to have wd-50 and Alinea, who have to put it on there

I don't know that the argument "this place is just as good as that place, therefore it belongs on the list" is a valid argument. I can't say that I am as conversant in the American wave of molecular gastronomy or technoemotional or whatever anyone wants to call it as others... but I've always had the impression that Mini Bar never quite had the impact on the restaurant-going public that places such as wd-50 and Alinea have had.

As far as I know, both wd-50 and Minibar at Cafe Atlantico opened in 2003, but wd-50 seemed to get most of the attention. And, one must point out that wd-50 was a whole restaurant devoted to molecular gastronomy whereas Minibar was six seats inside of a larger non-MG restaurant. Alinea, on the other hand, would seem to represent the current pinnacle, or at least logical conclusion of this movement in the United States. It's as close to being "El Bulli America" as any restaurant is likely to get, and certainly seems to be the "most important" restaurant of this kind in the US today.

So, while it seems to make sense to put the first widely-known MG restaurant in the States on the list, and to put the current #1 and most elaborately MG restaurant in the States on the list... you just can't put all the others on there. Molecular gastronomy simply isn't an important-enough movement in the United States over the last 30 years fo merit more than 10% of the list.

[25 Most Important Restaurants of the Last 30 Years]

I like Lupa more than Babbo, but it would be hard for me to argue that Lupa is more important than Babbo.

Is there an argument for Babbo being more important than Lupa?

Yes. I would say that Babbo started the movement in this country of Italian restaurants in America (as opposed to Italian-American restaurants) that create and serve dishes frmo an Italian aesthetic but don't attempt to imitate actual Italian dishes from Italy. I heard Batali once say that, in constructing the menu for Babbo, he decided to think of New York as though it were another region of Italy and to proceed from that viewpoint. This means incorporating local ingredients and taking account of the preferences and practices of the local populance and making a "NYC Italian cuisine" much in the same way that Bolognese cuisine is different from Milanese cuisine. This resulted in dishes such as his "fennel dusted sweetbreads with sweet and sour onions, duck bacon and membrillo vinegar" which is a dish that does not exist in Italy, but is reflective of a certain NYC-informed Italian aesthetic to the extent that most any Italian would recognize it as congruent with their culinary tradition in a way that an Italian-American dish such as "veal parmesan with spaghetti and red sauce" is not.

[The chronic undercooking of pizza]

I have found Patsy's East Harlem to be remarkably consistent over the years, but will allow as to how I haven't been there since November 3, 2007 (which date I remember because it's two days before I got married ).

I will say this: Patsy's makes a very thin crust and I have found as a generality that some people find it to be "too limp" in the center. This has been the case even when I have had extremely well-charred pizza there. In my opinion, it's part of the style that the pizza isn't crisp and rigid all the way to the tip of the slice. Indeed, the crust isn't "crisp" at all, except for the top of the cornicione. What I would say it has is a "micro-thin" layer of crispness/char on the bottom topped by an etherially light and flexible layer of crust just below the toppings. This seems fairly consistent with your observation that "the oven did a great job on the areas that were well done" and this is a characteristic that is shared with the otherwise different Neapolitan style. Another thing about Patsy's is that the pizza has to be eaten immediately. Because it is so thin and so light, it loses its "specialness" rapidly. For this reason, Patsy's East Harlem cognoscenti order their pizzas in series rather than all at once.

Of course, it's possible they were having an off day.

I don't mind the sauce at Patsy's (I rather like the bright acidity) but agree that the quality of the toppings is a major weak point. The cheeses are okay, but if they offered better quality and more interesting extra toppings, they would really be stepping up their game.

[Cook on a Slab o' Salt]

Right. It's a little bit like saying: "Sandstone is just a bunch of sand particles smushed together into stone. I should be able to make that at home" or "why can't I take a bunch of carbon atoms and make my own diamonds?"

[Top 100 Bars in America]

Honestly... I admit to being a bit skeptical that there are as many as 100 great cocktail bars in America. I'd think it was more like 20 great ones, and perhaps another 30 where you can get a decent iteration of a very limited roster of drinks, or which are oldey-timey or iconic in one way or another.

[The Art of the Bar by Hollinger & Schwartz]

As one might imagine, the creme de menthe (Brizard) pretty much dominated...

I've taken to substituting Branca Menta for crème de menthe to get a more restrained mint flavor along with some herbal complexity and a bit less sweetness. Credit where credit's due: I got the idea from Audrey and her Goodnight Irene (2 oz bourbon, 1 oz branca menta over crushed ice).

[Cook on a Slab o' Salt]

My thinking is that this would be very difficult to do. These pink salt blocks were laid down molecular layer by molecular layer over hundreds of years, and then most likely under a great deal of pressure for some hundreds (or thousands) of years after that. Even with the mined pink salt blocks, not every piece is suitable for heating and cooking -- only those which are free of flaws, etc.

[The (Re) Birth of Vodka- Is It Possible?]

But it's absurd to say that white sugar has no place in a pastry kitchen and that vodka has no place in a bar. Sometimes, you want that neutrality precisely because it's neutral. It boosts without being assertive.

I don't think anyone is arguing that vodka has no place in the cocktailan bar, or that there are no situations in which it can work. I just think that most of us are arguing that it has at most a very minor role to play in the cocktailian bar, which is entirely at odds with the situation we see today where most bars beyond a select few are dominated by vodka both in the drinks served and on the back bar.

A perfect example of a good drink where vodka's neutrality works would be Audrey's Dreamy Dorini Smoking Martini where extremely concentrated and potent Islay single malt scotch is stretched by a large measure of vodka, which allows the imbiber to have a lighter/colder drink and also reveals many interesting components of the malt that are obscured at full strength. Another good example is Paul Harrington's Drink Without a Name wherein vodka is combined with tiny measures of Cointreau and Green Chartreuse to a similar effect.

Other than stretching (which is another way of saying "reducing intensity") of very strong flavored spirits, I'm not sure that there is a great deal of value in vodka's ability to "boost without being assertive." You take some orange juice and you add vodka, what do you have? Well, now you have alcoholic orange juice that doesn't taste quite as good as non-alcoholic orange juice. What's the difference? The alcoholic version will get you drunk. The fact is that, for the vast majority of vodka cocktails, if you replaced the vodka with chilled water or seltzer, the drink would taste better. Sure, I get it -- sometimes you want to drink spiced tomato juice and get your drunk on. We've all been there. But, you know... we've all been to McDonald's as well. The Bloody Mary is just alcoholic tomato juice, whereas the Red Snapper is a drink.

[The (Re) Birth of Vodka- Is It Possible?]

In my opinion, flavored "vodka" doesn't really exist. Not unless we're going to call every spirit made by infusing neutral spirits with flavors "vodka" -- which would, of course, make both gin and aquavit kinds of "vodka," which I emphatically believe they are not.

The problem I have with most of the flavored neutral spirits that call themselves "vodka" (and which I will call "flavored vodka" for the remainder of this post for the sake of convention) is that the vast majority of them isn't very good. This, in my mind, automatically disqualifies these iterations from being considered viable candidates for quality mixology.

Of the rare few that are actual quality spirits, there is still the issue that flavored vodkas are not particularly complex compared to multi-flavored neutral-spirit spirits. Most flavored vodkas are one-note, or perhaps two-note at the most. As good as, say, Hanger One's kaffir lime leaf vodka or Modern Spirit's celery peppercorn vodka may be, you just can't use them in as many cocktails as you can Tanqueray. And this isn't just because London dry gin has been used in cocktails for a lot longer. This limits the general applicability of most of the quality flavored vodkas. So, at the best, you can make one or two interesting cocktails with any given quality flavored vodka. And if you want to be able to make a wide range of drinks using flavored vodka, you have to stock a zillion different kinds of flavored vodka. In order to make as many different cocktails with as many different flavor profiles as you can with one bottle of Beefeater, you'd need 30 different bottles of flavored vodka.

Finally, for most, although not all flavored vodkas, you can make infused spirits yourself that are every bit as good in the context of a cocktail. Or, if you want more background complexity, infuse some gin instead. I'd much rather have a cocktail made with celery peppercorn gin or kaffir lime leaf aquavit than the same flavors infused into vodka.