slkinsey

I thought the Blood and Sand was interesting, but found myself thinking it would be better served over ice with a splash of soda instead of up in a cocktail glass.

Admin: you may note that a certain discussion has been excised from this thread. This thread is for discussing Per Se and the food at Per Se, and I would kindly ask that it remain on that topic. It is not for metadiscussion as to who is qualified to have which opinions, etc. If you would like to have that discussion, I invite you to direct your attention to the "New Topic" button at the top of the page. Anyone who would like their excised material forwarded to them for inclusion in such a thread may contact me via PM. Now, returning to your regularly scheduled discussion about Per Se...

The piture accompanying the acticle perfectly illustrates the point Fat Guy has made elsewhere about some restaurants aging along with their clientele rather than staying fresh. Is anyone in that picture under the age of 60, maybe even 70?

Welcome to eGullet, Mick. According to this page, the "mad dog" part of the margaritas sold at the Chili Parlor has to do with the (terrible quality) brand of mescal used. Other than that, they don't seem to be anything special -- in fact, they are apparently quite horrible.

Yes, it is. Not to the best of my knowledge. But the NY laws governing these things are strange. There is any number of reasons it might be allowed. Yes, it is. I can't speak about Sally's, but the other three all have the coal burning in the same chamber where the pizze are baking. Yes, for several reasons: The first part of the process is to franfer the heat from the burning coal to the thermal material of the oven (masonry, brick, whatever) and then from the thermal material of the oven to the pizza via direct conduction (from the oven floor), radiation (from the oven walls) and convection. The thermal material of the oven is much more effectively and efficiently heated if the heat source is inside the oven rather than below it. A big part of cooking Neapolitan and neo-Neapolitan pizza is that the toppings are cooked by the heat from the fire burning inside the oven chamber which is reflected off the roof of the oven If you're curious, have a look through the discussion in the New York Pizza Survey thread, where many of your questions are directly and more extensively addressed.

Two cocktails, and it's barely 5:00! You, sir, are a man after my own heart!

Nice, Don. My Aviation is something like: 2.0 oz : gin 0.5 oz : fresh lemon juice 0.5 oz : maraschino Lemon twist

Very interesting. Those prices range from $8.15 up to $23.95 for 750 ml. Those prices may be so low, however, because the store is owned/operated by the Liquor Control Board of Ontario and therefore perhaps not taxed.

FYI, I've created a thread in the NYC forum about the top cocktail bars in the City. Please go over there and chime in with your thoughts.

In a recent thread over in the spirits forum, a fellow City-dweller asked a very reasonable question: It struck me that many people won't know the answer to this question. For many people with an interest, serious cocktail drinking is done at home. This is a practice adopted because... well... most cocktails in most bars mostly suck -- especially if one would like anything that deviates too widely from the beaten path of "Martini, Manhattan, Cosmopolitan, Margarita." So... what are the top cocktail bars in the City? Where can one order an Aviation or, heaven forbid, a Twentieth Century and not be greeted by a blank stare? Where are the places where you don't have to ask for bitters in your Manhattan? Or better yet, where they will ask you what kind of bitters you want? Any places that still have a long, elegant bar and a bartender who dresses up? Old school? New school? Let's hear your favorites.

I've made a nice-tasting variation on the Aviation using Cherry Heering instead of maraschino.

Interesting... I was served one of the best martinis I have ever had at Town's bar. It was a Hendrick's martini, served with a translucently thin slice of cucumber as the garnish and a little plate of cucumber and sea salt on the side. I liked it so much, I just had to rip it off, and this presentation has become a popular one among my friends.

Lots of good ideas for next time in there...

Roasted marrow bones with oxtail "marmelade" at Blue Ribbon.

[Editors Note: The side discussion on the "Original Gin" thread on aviations reached the point where it seemed to cry out for its own thread, so here it is.] Any brands you recommend?

My curiosity was piqued by a post of Gary Regan's a while back, describing a cocktail known as the Twentieth Century: My thinking went something like this: Gin and Lillet Blonde? Okay. Gin and lemon? Okay. Lemon and chocolate? Ummmmmm, I don't think so. Gin and chocolate?! No way! I had to try it, of course. And, you know what? It really works? I'm not sure how it works, exactly, but it does. The Twentieth Century Cocktail has now become a favorite in the slkinsey household. I'm curious to hear from other eGulleters about cocktails that seem like they won't work, but which turn out to work great after all.

I'd say rather that they don't like the taste of liquor, since alcohol is the one thing you can taste in vodka. Well... straight, I'd agree. But, mix it with just about anything and it doesn't really taste of alcohol. A Cosmopolitan or a vodka Gimlet, for example, doesn't really taste of alcohol the way, say, an Aviation or a gin Gimlet does -- nevermind a Manhattan.

Which coclktail he didn't have there, right? I don't think his table had the signature cocktail. Or, do you mean this: I'm curious. As the only one among us who has actually had this cocktail... did it strike you as cerebral -- something you had to do some paradigm-adjusting to fully appreciate?

You mean there are actually people out there who think gin is "bad for you" compared to vodka?! The author summs up my take on vodka in his next sentence: I have always thought that most (although not all, obviously) people who take vodka as their liquor of choice, do so because fundamentally they don't like the taste of alcohol.

Given that Per Se doesn't figure to have a busy or significant bar scene, I would imagine that they don't have too much breakage/shrinkage to deal with in the bar area. They probably also don't even bother stocking well liquors (although that is only a guess). Based on this drink, anyway, I'd guess they're trying to operate on 20% liquor cost. Back to Per Se, though... I have to pick up some White Pineau Des Charentes and give it a try. Given the austerity and presumably subtle flavorings of this drink, I can imagine that the brand of vodka might actually make a difference, whereas I don't think it does in most cocktails (above the rotgut level, of course).

Interesting, Beans, and thanks. We don't often see things from this perspective. FWIW, I've seen prices for White Pineau Des Charentes as low as 40 bucks at retail. Assuming the wholesale cost is somewhere around 16% lower than that, we're talking about something like 34 dollars, or $1.3412 an ounce. Does that sound reasonable? That would give us $1.0039 : ounce Ciroc $1.0039 : ounce Ciroc $1.3412 : ounce White Pineau Des Charentes $0.1443 : dash Grand Marnier $3.4933 : total At 20% : $17.46 At 25% : $13.97 Would you say that 20% ingredient cost (i.e., a 500% markup) is standard in the business? It certainly puts the wine markups everyone is always complaining about into sharp perspective.

Again, this precision is more important when one is grinding for espresso. Since I only use my Rocky for espresso, I make only the most minute adjustments to the grind depending on how the beans are reacting (fresher beans need a slightly coarser grind). Since I only grind for espresso and I only use one blend, I find that I can reliably grind by volume -- a leveled-off filter-basket does the trick.

I recommend grinding all the beans you want to use for the individual coffee-making session into the doser. Then use a small brush or other implement (I used the end of a small flathead screwdriver I kept on to of my Rancilio to unscrew the screen for cleaning) to sweep any extra ground coffee from the chute into the doser. Then place whatever receptical you are using under the doser and click the doser until all the coffee is dosed out. If you like, you can sweep out the coser chamber as well -- although I think this is overkill and I normally didn't bother with that. Owen's points are well made about the amount of stale grinds that can be left behind in the chute (and, to a lesser extent, in the doser). However, this is much more significant when making a shot of espresso than it is for a big old pot of press pot coffee. The reason is that the left-behind stale ginds might make up a significant percentage of a single espresso shot, but they are unlikely to make up a significant percentage of the (much larger) amount of coffee beans used to make several cups of presspot coffee. Just in case anyone is curious... due to the design of the Rocky doserless grinder it is impossible to sweep out the extra grinds from the chute. Therefore, the only way to ensure 100% freshly ground coffee is to run the grinder for a second or two and discard those grindings.

Oh yea... I guess that means that whoever came up with the cocktail had a lot of cocktail "book learning" but was extremely difficult to nail down as to which books he had read. That's gotta be worth another 10 bucks right there.

AFAIK, there is no {I} (as in "is") vowel in French, only the {i} (as in "see") vowel. Strictly speaking, I would pronounce "Lillet" as: lee-LEH (in the International Phonetic Alphabet: [li-'lE]). If I were saying "Lillet" while speaking French, I'd hit the "Ls" very lightly with the tip of the tongue. When saying "Lillet" while speaking English, I'll use regular old American English "Ls." If I were singing "Lillet" in French, I'd even go so far as to linger on the double "L" between the syllables.