slkinsey

Welcome to eGullet, Artichoke. Interesting that you went straight for the same dishes as I, namely things like marrow, liver, sweetbreads, etc.

Whoa. Think about how bad the service has to be to sink a place on the UWS.

Bux, although we are moving towards topic-drift here, I wanted to respond in a general way to your comments re the star system, more specifically to the jist of your comments that a "three star hamburger is not an equivalent of a three star meal in a haute cuisine restaurant." I agree that there should be some way of differentiating between the two. I also agree in general with your conception of the star ratings. However I'd like to point out that the Times itself is largely responsible for this misunderstanding. To wit: There is is in black and white (well, actually black offset in a little tan box... but you get the idea). Given the Times own explanation of their star system, it would seem that Amanda Hesser's rating is saying Jacques-Imo's is not even "good" -- and this seems to be at odds with the generally positive comments she made in her review. That we have certain (Michelin-influenced) ideas about what the stars signify is something that exists in our minds, not on the Times' pages. Now, I happen to agree that the Times at least tries to assign star ratings according to what level of hauteur the restaurant is geared towards and the extent to which that level is achieved... But this practice is not reflected in their explanation of the Times' star ratings.

Truthfully, no. I was actually surprised that she reviewed the restaurant. Maybe it got reviewed because it is an offshoot of such a well-loved New Orleans restaurant. The atmosphere is very mardi-gras party and rightfully belongs on Amsterdam Avenue between 80th and 83rd, with Brother Jimmy's, Firehouse, etc. It just didn't strike me as a "serious" restaurant that was shooting for a Times review. Right. Other small UWS places (@SQC, for example) that would seem more qualified for a major Times review have, AFAIK, not been reviewed by the major NYT reviewer. Not that I want to turn this into another Hesser meta-discussion, but I wonder if they're throwing her softballs until Bruni is in place.

What do the owners seem to be shooting for? Do you get the idea that they're trying to have a "NY Times Starred Restaurant" place?

Neither have I. The interesting (and odd) thing is that there is another Peruvian restaurant in close proximity to Manu.

ellenesk, responding to my typo of "menu" in another thread brought the restaurant Manu to my attention. This is a Peruvian restaurant on 2607 Broadway at 98th Street. I've seen it many times, and wondered about it. Here is New York Magazine's little blurb. I've always been curious, and ellenesk's inquiry shows that I am not alone. Has anyone been?

I bet their profit margins on scallopini are awesome. Have you ever noticed how much more supermarkets charge for pre-sliced boneless/skinless chicken breast compared to the non-sliced kind? Just because it's sliced? It's insane, but it works.

Steak is sold by the pound, though. Usually. Right, but I suppose the psychological dimension makes it easier to sell two thinner half pound steaks for 9 bucks apiece than one thicker one pound steak for 15 bucks.

This just in from New York Magazine... Gumbo Café 950 Columbus Avenue (near 107th Street) 212-222-2378 Menu also includes things like gumbo and jambalaya.

Oh, absolutely! I always strain orange juice. Pulp mystifies me. I can't understand why anyone would enjoy drinking citrus juice with little spider legs getting caught in their teeth.

Right, so according to the FDA's Sec. 133.155© we have: "The name of the food is 'mozzarella cheese' or, alternatively, 'scamorza cheese'." This is, in my mind, kind of a bizarre thing for the FDA to specify. It's like having one specification for brie and camembert. I also find it incredibly strange that they have an entirely separate specification for caciocavallo and provolone, which are virtually indistinguishable from scamorza.

It is? Says who? The US standards for mozzarella (not that the USDA has any authority in classifying Italian cheeses, nind you) may be found here (warning: pdf). Relevant information is: Mozzarella cheese: 52% - 60% moisture and > 45% milkfat Low-moisture Mozzarella cheese: 45% - 52% moisture and >45% milkfat Part-skim Mozzarella cheese: 52% - 60% moisture and 30% - 45% milkfat Low-moisture Part-skim Mozzarella cheese: 45% - 52% moisture and and 30% - 45% milkfat I agree that scamorza is corresponds to what we would call "low-moisture mozzarella," although scamorza is in general much better quality than what is found as low-moisture mozzarella. That there was already a word for that type of cheese suggests to me, Italophile that I am, that there is "no such thing" as low-moisture mozzarella.

Yea, hard to say. Having tasted it raw, Totonno's is definitely the dryest full-moisture mozzarella I've ever seen. When he offered me a piece, I was very surprised at how dry it was. In my experience, full-moisture mozzarella is wet to the extent that liquid will exude from the cheese when it is sliced or squeezed, and it is difficult-to-impossible to slice thinly. However, as you suggest, it may be that it is simply at the lower end of "full-moisture." Totonno's was within the realm of something I would eat raw (if just barely), while the standard (presumably low-moisture) "pizza cheese" is something I would never eat raw. If this rubbery-when-raw pizza cheese is what we mean by "low-moisture mozzarella," can there be such a thing as "fresh low-moisture mozzarella?" The other question I would have is whether there is, in fact, such a thing as "low-moisture mozzarella." I am unclear as to the difference between low-moisture mozzarella and scamorza, among other varieties of firm, salty pasta filata cheeses. If Totonno's mozzarella is "high-moisture" (and there seems to be an agreement that it is) then Patsy's is the only coal-oven place we visited that doesn't use high-moisture cheese.

This was a fun time. Now that the pictures have been posted, I'm sure everyone will be wondering what "Bumbershoot" is. Owen?

Theoretically you can have the various permutations, but those Totonno's photos don't depict what looks like low-moisture mozzarella. A good rule of thumb is that it's low moisture if you can run it over a grater without clogging it. Hmmm... if that's the standard, then I revise my earlier statement. That said, this was nowhere near as "wet" as truly fresh (e.g., <1 day old) mozzarella that's just been plucked out of the water. When we tasted some of the cheese raw, it had what I perceived as a distinctly dry texture, but none of the rubbery texture I associate with mozzarella that's grateable to the extent your example implies.

For anyone in the City looking for Luxardo... I found some at Union Square wines. It was funny...at first they didn't think they had any. Then they thought, "oh yea... that stuff... we used to have that, but I think we're out." Then they found the Luxardo Bitter and thought they had confused the two. I was all set to go home empty-handed (in the booze department, anyway) when I looked up and saw the Luxardo Maraschino on the next shelf up. The next thing out of the salesperson's mouth was, "hey... you use that stuff to make Aviations, right? how do you make those?"

Yay! Will be trying this soon. What are your thoughts on up/cocktail glass versus ice/old-fashioned glass for this one? For some reason, drinks with significant orange juice always incline me towards ice.

I do agree that this is a nice idea, and was kidding (mostly ) about the pretentious part. It not only allows him to make sure that he can give everyone the full experience, but has the nice side-effect of making people feel like they're in on an exclusive thing even though really anyone can come in.

Oh, I agree that it's in a different heirarchy, and I also agree that it's probably going to end up on top in terms of gas fired traditional oven pizza. I think our idea of the "big five" was simplyto get an baseline idea of what the so-called highest quality pizza is in the City predicated on overall reputation: these are the five places that are most frequently held forth as having "the best pizza in New York." That four out of the five were coal fired places is more or less a coincidence (well, it's perhaps less coincidental considering that it's NYC). I agree, however, that it makes most sense to directly compare like-pizza to like-pizza, and in that sense both Di Fara and Giorgione go into different categories from Patsy's, Totonno's, et al. For me the survey up to this point has been more one of evaluating the crusts, how they are balanced against the toppings and how the toppings effect the crust (80% of overall importance, IMO). That evaluation is relatively independent of the specific topping featured, IMO. There is no luxury topping that, in my opinion, can be so wonderful as to trump the quality and characteristics of the crust. Beyond that, I think we tended to go with the experience of the people who seemed to be the most familiar with the pizzerie in question when deciding on specific toppings. That said, it's hard to gain any kind of true impression of the pizzerie, especially with respect to their relative merits, without multiple visits and direct like-pizza to like-pizza comparison, I agree. Ultimately it comes down to what is more important to the diner, and I think our groups have reflected a fairly wide spectrum of priorities and preferences. I think there is a bit of a semantic confusion here. Fresh mozzarella may be either full moisture or low moisture. The moisture content is not necessarily dependent on the freshness of the cheese. Totonno's makes their own cheese -- you can't get any fresher than that -- and it is low moisture. As for the flavor of the two different styles of mozzarella... mozzarella is a bland cheese, no matter how it is made, compared to the other toppings on a pizza. For me, mozzarella should be largely a textural and mouthfeel element of the pizza, and a bland respite from the more assertive flavors of the tomato and other toppings (and none of these should detract from the crust). Again, however, it all depends on what is important to the diner. Perhaps a strong preference for low-mousture mozzarella reflects a more topping-centric viewpoint than my own. For me, getting a lot of flavor out of the cheese is not my primary goal and I welcome the creamy blandness. I also do not appreciate the "cooked" flavor low moisture mozzarella develops after all the moisture evaporates and it browns under the intense heat of the oven. That said, I have yet to experience a pizza in NYC that is as austere and zen-like in its use of ingredients as I would prefer. I'd be interested to see what Patsy's could do with full-moisture mozzarella if I could talk them into putting 50% of the regular amount of sauce and cheese on the pizza. AFAIK, Patsy's was the only place we visited that used 100% full-moisture cheese on (some of) the pizzas, and I liked the cheese on these better than Patsy's pizza made with low-moisture cheese. I'm not sure I'd feel that way if we had combined full-moisture mozzarella with other toppings, though. Again... clearly the "big 5" list is predicated on reputation rather than actual results. The overall low quality at Lombardi's demonstrates that most emphatically. As for Grimaldi's... While I do agree that the timing issues at Grimaldi's are a downgrade and feel that there is no rational exuse for this lapse on their part, there are plenty of other restaurants for which we accept similar quirks. The fact is that, if you know what you're doing, it is possible to go to Grimaldi's and fairly reliably get an outstanding pizza. But you have to know what you're doing. While the wetness of the toppings at Totonno's is not my particular style of preference, I don't think they're doing it by mistake. I think it's Totonno's style, and for whatever it's worth it doesn't seem to interfere with the quality of the crust (with the exception of the mushroom pizza, where the mushrooms had exuded a lot of liquid and it did maye the tips of the slices soggy). The pizze at Totonno's were no more wet than, for example, the pizze at Di Fara. Does this mean that they don't deserve the "best pizza in New York/no place is better/no place comes close" hype? It's a moot point, because none of them deserve it None stands head and shoulders above the competition. But, based on my one visit I'd say that Totonno's deserves to be held in very high esteem as one of the best pizzerie in New York. If you don't want a pie with relatively wet toppings, don't go to Totonno's. Hey... if you don't want a pie with a 50% charred crust, don't go to Patsy's. I'm not going to tell Patsy's that cooking their pizze that way is inexcusable, though -- and it's not just because I don't want to wind up with some guy holding my hand in the oven. My own experience in terms of comparing the four coal-oven places we visited is that the crusts are distinctively different but all very high quality among Grimaldi's, Patsy's and Totonno's. Lombardi's first pizza was outstanding, but the others were terrible. Totonno's, for me, comes in third. I'm not sure I could pick a clear winner betweeen the other two. Grimaldi's crust had, to my palate, a better tasting crust that stood up well to the tooth. It is more "wheatey" tasting, and the flavor of the crust is well balanced with the oven char. Patsy's crust is hands-down the lightest crust of all, and very tender. But the flavor tended to be a little one-note compared to Grimaldi's and was dominated by the char. For me, it's like choosing between Jennifer Tilley and Jennifer Garner. Can't I have both?

This is not to say, of course, that a little bit of pretention can't be kind of fun. After all, without it there would be no fine dining. Do they make any effort to keep out tourists and "scene types" by prescreening over the phone -- or is that all accomplished simply by the existence of a quasi-secret phone number as a kind of filter? I gather that they use their "reservation system" mosatly to keep the place from getting overcrowded. $12 doesn't sound like all that much for an expertly-made cocktail when one considers that Per Se is charging $17 and even a mediocre cocktail at Carmine's, et al. will run you $10.

Copying this in from another thread: I've been searching Philly for a deeper pasta insert. At Sam's recommendation, I checked the Paderno website. The 5000 series 11-qt. pasta insert is $177 (11.5-qt. stock pot: $214). Does anyone know if there is any effective difference between the 1000 series and the 5000 series? Some clarification is needed here. What you have referenced is the Canadian company Padinox that makes a line called "Paderno" in Canada. What happened is that the original Italian company at one point sold the Canadian company the right to use the Paderno brand in Canada and make Canadian "Paderno cookware." Padinox uses the name "Paderno" for their lower-end line of cookware and the name "Chaudier" for their higher-end line of cookware in Canada. Outside of Canada, only the original Italian company may use the brand "Paderno" and the two Padonix lines are called "Chaudier 1000" and "Chaudier 5000" respectively. When I say "Paderno" I am speaking of the Italian company. Bridge Kitchenware is the sole distributor of Paderno Grand Gourmet in the US. It is one of my favorite lines of cookware.

Don't be so fast to use it up... it may be a while before you find any more. Currently it is not being imported into the US.

I agree wholeheartedly JPW and that's why I'm very glad you took the time to do the legwork to bring this more out in the open. Let's hope we generate enough heat here that the Washington Post Food section will draw attention to it (in the way they drew more attention to the Bayless-Burger King story after we at eG picked that ball up.) Steve Ells, founder and chief executive of Denver-based Chipotle, should address why sodium is so integral to his pursuit of fast good food with integrity. Interesting. Personally I think sodium is a non-issue. Some foods tend to contain a lot of salt. My experience is that braised meats (and most of the stuff at Chipotle is braised) tends to need a fair amount of salt. I've eaten at Chipotle and never found the food to be all that salty, and I can definitively say that it's not half as salty as the chorizo tacos I get at my local "authentic" Mexican-run-and-patronized taqueria, Taqueria y Fonda La Mexicana (which, I presume, would get an enthusiastic "two gullets up" from the membership here). So, if I may indulge myself in a lttle fast-food pun, what's the beef? Do we think the food at Chipotle contains a lot of salt compared to "artisinal" tacos and burritos? Do we think the food at Chipotle contains a lot of salt compared to the food at AD/NY and Per Se? What is our basis for complaining about the sodium content? I'm not saying there might not be one, I just wonder what it is. As for the supposed health risks associated with salt, I think Steingarten debunked that a long time ago... there is only a very small number of individuals who have the kind of hypertension that is sensitive to salt. For everyone else, go ahead and indulge. Now... I am not suggesting that eating Chipotle 7 days a week is anyone's idea of a healthy diet. But I wouldn't suggest that about the tasting menu at Per Se either -- or any restaurant food, for that matter.

Philistines.