ecr

Oh, disturbing news about the husband-wife restaurant, as I have reservations for Sat.... Perhaps I'll stick to Cantonese. No time for a hop across the border this trip, but thanks for the Guangzhou recs which I'll file away for future use.

Great post HK Dave, seems we might have crossed paths (but probably didn't, since I was a lowly "foreign teacher" at the time) at the DongFang in the mid-80s. Gosh I thought the food was awful there (not to mention the rooms) but then I wasn't banqueting (I was also coming from Chengdu so Cantonese food seemed hopelessly bland in comparison). And the Sichuan restaurant early90s in the export zone in Guangzhou --- a very good facsimile of the real thing (both food and decor)! I also remember, at the time, a Sichuan restaurant in Guangzhou in a bldg owned by the Chongqing Municipal Govt. A bit cleaner (not upscale though) and very authentic food (they sold Chuanwei Mala You, Huajiao, Sichuan chiles, and other "necessities" on the first floor).

I will of course have lots of southern Chinese specialties on my upcoming trip to Hong Kong, but would also like to satisfy cravings for good, homestyle Sichuan or Hunan food, and dao shao mian (noodles handcut from a big dough block into boiling water). Chinese-only menu is not a problem and I don't care much about atmosphere as long as the food is memorable. Also --- anyone tried the husband-wife Sichuan restaurant that was written up in Saveur last January (set meal, 2 seatings a night, she sings opera)? Many thanks.

1) Yangshuo, winter 1997, at the night market that sets up next to the "fancy" resort hotel (don't know if either the hotel or market still exist). The most fantastic meal in the most miserable weather (cold, rainy, windy) under an awning next to a wok manned by the husband of a man-wife cooking team .... especially bacon stir-fried with sugar snap peas. The constrast of that stridently porky, salty meat with the sweet, still-crisp pea pods is unforgettable. And a heaping plate of stir-fried pork with wild mushrooms of all sorts. The sort of make-do-with-what's-available, homestyle cooking that is getting harder and harder to find in China. It rained the next two nights as well, but we put on our rain gear and headed back to the same stall for more. 2) 1984, my first taste of hongyou shuijiao at the hongyou shuijiao place in Chengdu, behind the big Mao statue (is it still there?). Present your ration tickets and renminbi and get a chit. Always packed, to get a seat you stood behind someone's chair and grabbed it when they started to stand up, and then waived down an attendant to take your chit. Tiny bowls, just five slippery, toothsome dumplings (pork only, and not too much meat --- it was all about the dough) floating in a sweet-hot chili oil. Four of these bowls more than justified the 1/2 hour bike ride on a damp chilly Chengdu afternoon.

Sichuan cold noodles ... but not the kind with the peanut butter or sesame paste in the sauce. Thin wheat noodles, tossed with slivered cold chicken and cucumber and cilantro, and topped with a sauce of: dark soy light soy teeny dash of Shaoxing wine Chenkiang vinegar (Chinese black vinegar) chili flakes in oil, and some of the oil sugar roasted ground Sichuan peppercorns to taste The sauce should be noticeably vinegary. Incendiary and cooling at the same time.

Food in Bangkok -- my favorite topic in the whole world. To maximize tasting given your limited time, you must definately have lunch (closed for dinner) at Dalat Aw Taw Kaw where you can sample all sorts of exceedingly well-prepared goodies for very little money. Here's how to get there: take the BTS (skytrain) to the end of the line at On Nut (where Chatuchak Market is). Follow the signs at the skytrain and head towards Chatuchak (about a 10-minute walk). You will see the entrance to Chatuchak on your right --- keep walking until you get to the major intersection and turn right. Dalat Aw Taw Kaw will be up ahead on your left ... look for a parking lot and a covered market, that's it. (or ask Thais, always helpful, for directions). Here you can sample the full spectrum of Thai tasties, from huge steamed prawns eaten with a dipping sauce of lime/fish sauce/chilis (2 for less than 100 baht); to grilled sausages (some of that Issaan food that a previous poster mentioned --- round ones are sour from fermented rice, long fat ones are spicy); to sakoo (sweet-savory rice flour dumplings with a filling of peanut, shrimp paste, pork, and eaten wrapped in a lettuce leaf with a sprig of coriander and raw chili); to a myriad of prepared curries and vegetables with rice; to grilled eggplant topped with the fish sauce-lime preparation above; to grilled fish; to muuyang (grilled pork with dipping sauce); to khanom (sweets, primarily) of all types. And much more. Look for khanom taan, which is made by only one vendor there --- small coconuty steamed cakes, not too sweet, topped with fresh shredded coconut. These are hard to find elsewhere in Bangkok. What you do is cruise the vendors lining the front of the market (nearest the street), make your purchases, and head to the interior of the market where there are tables surrounded by stalls doing all sorts of noodle and other dishes. Purchase a drink (perhaps Thai iced tea) from a vendor and most likely he or she or another will offer you a bowl and knife and fork to use to eat your goodies with. If you still have room by all means order a plate of guaytiaow laad naa (wide rice noodles with "gravy" which sounds so unexciting but it really is a wonderful dish) from the stall fronted by blue tiles. Anoint with vinegar, fish sauce, and chilis from the condiment tray, and enjoy. You can probably stuff your face at Dalat Aw Taw Kaw for $5-7. Though the market is "upscale" compared to some others, the quality is truly excellent and the place is frequented by locals (albeit richer locals) far more than by tourists. For dinner I would pursue Issaan food as another poster recommended, but I would head to Narathiwat Soi 24 for an open-air, truly Thai experience. Get a taxi (thy're not that expensive) from the Sala Daeng BTS station, instruct him to sto at Narathiwat Soi 24. Get out and retrace your journey back along Narathiwat (a big busy road) less than 1/4 of a block to the first grilled chicken and fish (you can't miss the grill) place you come to. It's a rather downmarket place but I've eaten here with never a problem so don't worry. Take a seat and order gaiyang krungdua (half a grilled chicken), somtam (papaya salad), khaoniaow (sticky rice), and, if you have the room, cimcum/jeemjum (Issaan-style hotpot). The dipping sauce for the chicken (the dark red stuff, not the sweet stuff) is out of this world. Without beer this feast will set you back about 4 US dollars. (Caveat: better on a Thu, Fri, Sat, or Sun night than on other weekdays). If you can name your hotel and are concerned about getting around I can name closer places. But these two experiences will give you a very good sampling of the incomparable deliciousness of "real" Thai food.

Thanks to all respondents! I've been unable to access the egullet forums for the past couple wks but as of today at least, I'm back. So --- what is lobak? Maukitten, if you have any more friend/family recommendations I'm all ears (or eyes).

I know that there is some Penang talk buried in the very long Malaysian food thread, but thought I'd reintroduce the topic with its own heading in the hopes of more leads! I'm happily headed back to Malaysia in Dec, a couple days in Penang and am hoping to score some memorable meals and snacks. Also thinking of taking a car from KL to Penang ---- anywhere to stop on the way for lunch or (multiple) snack(s)? Thanks for any and all suggestions.

I'll add my two cents from observation (I've not cooked fresh rice noodle Thai dishes, though I have cooked chow fun): when I order guaytiaow phad kee mao at my favorite place in Bangkok, they bring the noodles out from the kitchen/washing up area in the back in a plastic basket --- already pliable in a little pile so I'm thinking they dip or rinse them with hot water. The wok jockey up front adds what looks like 1/4 cut oil to a VERY hot wok, oil heats up and is swirled around a bit, and when smoking noodles go in with a wee bit of fish sauce. Stirred around vigorously for just about a minute. Noodles come out, rest of ingredients go in with just a little more oil. When their cooked noodles go back in to be mixed with the rest, another wee bit of fish sauce, and that's it. Basil leaves are added at the last minute. If phad siiew, a good Tbsp of black soy is added to the wok WITH the noodles on their first fry, so that the soy soaks into and flavors them. Trillium is right --- heat is crucial. Not only so that the noodles don't stick but also so that they get sufficiently smoky in taste. BTW, what are "Drunken" noodles? Good luck.

I'm not one for Thai (or any Asian) fusion either, but the OP was looking for a school with a "creative" approach .... fusion fans in BKK really seem to like Blue Elephant (as an aside, the chef was one of 3 Bangkok chefs featured in a recent Saveur article on new cooking in the Thai capital, and he is supposed to be skilled in traditional as well as "new" Thai). The Oriental's school is very oriented to western tastes, I understand. The restaurant is in a lovely setting, but the food is pretty much just OK. Michael, this may be worth checking out: Thai House in Nonthaburi (a suburb of Bangkok). Accomodations in traditional Thai houses and cooking classes too. Tel 02-903-9611. I haven't checked to see if they have a website. Good luck.

You might have a look at Blue Elephant (restaurant and cooking school) in Bangkok. The upscale restaurant serves standards as well as more "creative" dishes. While I generally prefer more typically Thai (ie. focus on food over atmosphere) food experiences while in Bangkok, the one meal I have had there was pretty good. A memorable salmon laab.

Thanks both. Tonkichi, I was just in San Fran too and did consider the W-S roasting pan (I have a larger one from there that won't fit in my Asia-sized oven) ..... but the bags were stuffed (and too heavy)with too many other goodies not easily found in this neck of the woods...

These recipes ... the first for example .... is for spice to cooke with how much liquid and how many tea bags (or how much loose tea)? I love masala chai but never thought to make it at home.

I think there are a couple of Sing resident regulars on this board ... hopefully you are cooks as well as eaters. Where can I go on an upcoming trip to buy a good heavy roasting pan and a Le Creuset (or similar) covered roaster? Suggestions for cook-centric stores appreciated!

A correction to my earlier post --- shrimp paste *does* show up uncooked in some namcim (dips) in Thailand, usu. eaten with raw veggies. Very delicious, but you'll smell it before you taste it.

Lao in March .... assume you'll go to Luang Prabang. Do eat at Malee's, spectacular Luang Prabang food.

"I have made shrimp paste ... from dried shrimp..." Hmmm, now I wonder if we are talking about the same thing, bec I was under the impression that shrimp paste is made from fresh shrimp, ground and left to ferment and dry in the sun. You can see (and smell!!) big pinkish mounds of it by the seaside in Thailand, on Hong Kong's Lamma Island (maybe not anymore, but 15 yrs ago anyway), and no doubt countless other locations in Asia. I can't imagine how one could achieve the texture of what I know as kapi, or shrimp paste, by starting with dried shrimp. Hopefully an expert on this will weigh in.... I would go so far as to say that, based on my experience only, shrimp paste is not eaten uncooked. It's when it's dropped into hot oil (or a hot broth) that its flavor (and stench) is really released. One Thai dish that highlights the flavor of shrimp paste is gaeng luang (yellow curry) .... really more of a soup than a curry that gets it's bite from lots of black pepper rather than the ubiquitous chili. Thailand's Issaan region is right next to Lao and most residents would describe themselves as "Lao" .... and there are alot of similarities in the cuisines. Issaan food is generally less sweet than "Tai" Thai food (ie food of the Bangkok region) .... stronger in flavor, hotter, more use of very pungent sauces (like the chunky fish sauce Mamster mentions) and myriad spicy and strong-flavored dips (for fresh veggies and to eat with rice). Lots of dried fish, and use of herbs that don't necessarily make their way into standard Thai food, like dill and that sawtooth-edged leaf (forgotten the name). Mushrooms (fresh) are big in Issaan as well, in season ---- wild mushroom foraging is a lucrative seasonal pursuit. Lots of innards, and grilling is a standard technique. Issaan dishes that you may be familiar with are laab and grilled chicken. But this description does not characterize *all* Lao cuisine .... there are many relatively mild Lao dishes (chicken cooked in coconut milk with loads of fresh dill comes to mind). And of course ant egg omelets (not a personal favorite, I'll admit)...

"Kapi" is Thai for "shrimp paste" ... it's not a dry powder but a paste that varies from quite moist to crumbly, so what you saw on the table must have been something else. The two styles of som tam (green papaya salad) are Tai or Isaan (somtam tai, somtam bpuu) .... the former with dried shrimp and the latter with preserved pickled crab (bpuu). The crab *is* overwhelming in smell and flavor. Kapi is generally not an ingredient in somtam .... are you sure you didn't get the version with the crab? Kapi makes appearances in curries, stir-fries, and stews .... and dips (namcim).

I love the Empress Zoe in Sulthanahmet, but you must ask specifically for one of the larger rooms (if they are available --- this place is usually full for good reason) bec the small rooms are indeed very very tiny. That said, the decor is lovely, beds are comfortable, breakfast is served in a beautiful series of small dining rooms that lead to a quiet garden (eat there when the weather is good), and their coffee (regular not Turkish) is the best I've had in Turkey --- if that matters to you. And staff is friendly and very helpful. However --- do all your eating on the other side, or at least out of Sulthanahmet. The best food is away from the tourist areas (and easy enough to get to).

Regarding substitutions, use the shorter thinner dried Thai chilies only if you must. The flavor is not at all the same as the Sichuan (larger, boxier) peppers ..... you'll see the difference if you roast and grind the chilies and use for lajiao (hot chili oil --- Dunlop has the procedure, I think).

"vegetarianism is still fairly rare in SE Asia" Not so .... and you don't have to go to a temple to find veggie fare. There are veg. restaurants (truly veg --- ie no fish sauce) all over Bangkok and many here in Saigon as well. A fair number of Vietnamese Buddhists go veggy 15 days of every month, and most do for a full month around the Autumn Moon festival (just finished). Many Thai Buddhists go veg during the vegetarian festival (now), the most well-known festivities are in Phuket. I would wager that, given their primarily Buddhist populations, vegetarianism is not that rare in Cambodia, Lao, or Burma either.

I was just in Bangkok and the book is very easily available there. For instance, at Bookazine (many branches), Asia Books (many branches), Kinokuniya in the Emporium. Many hotel gift shops also have it --- in the past I've seen it in gift shops at both Marriotts, the Shangri-la, the Hyatt Erawan, the Regent .... I would say that, as a reference by which to familiarize yourself with street foods in Bangkok you'd be much better off investing in the Lonely Planet World Food (Thailand) than Vatch's. (also the former is almost pocket-sized) And an even better way is to take yourself, on your first day in Bangkok, to a market that has almost everything, like Dalat Aw Taw Kaw (already mentioned by jrurusj).

It is *very* easy to get along in Thailand without Thai if you set aside your worries and, perhaps most important, smile. Thais are, in general, some of the most welcoming people and earth and they love to see farang (that's you -- a foreigner) enjoy Thai food! When buying food on the street (or anywhere that there's no English menu, for that matter), just smile and point, hold up your fingers to show quantity, and smile. If the vendor asks something and you don't understand him or her, shrug and smile. Esp. on the street, no mistake will be too costly --- a stick of muu yang (grilled pork) will set you back only 5 or 7 baht. Many restaurants have English menus --- otherwise smiling and pointing works well there too. Relax and enjoy yourself in one of the world's food hotspots (IMO).

jrufusj --- do try Hualomphong Station, IMO it's on the same level as the other Lao/Issaan places. Another recommendation (not sure if this is appropriate as the OP wanted upscale surroundings but...) --- for lunch, the tented food market down the soi directly behind the Sindhorn Building (Wireless Road, next to the US embassy). Just follow the crowds of office workers around noon. Graze to your heart's delight, and if you're lucky the 2 ladies selling young coconut pie will be in attendance.

Frankly when it comes to food in Bangkok, if you must eat "elegantly" then you will sacrifice in terms of quality. I have nothing at all against upscale, but my experience in Bangkok is that you must choose --- mediocre, occasionally pretty good, and also quite often pretty bad, in upscale surroundings OR incredible mind-blowing flavors in surroundings that vary from on-the-street (literally) to just-regular-decor restaurant. When we lived in Bangkok it just got to the point where if we wanted upscale surroundings we resigned ourselves to NOT eating Thai. Upscale Thai restaurants outside of hotels that come to mind are Cafe Siam, Siam Elephant (Sathorn Soi 1), Blue Elephant, Baan Khanitha (2 branches). Blue Elephant is at least in a lovely restored building and I had a salmon laab there once that was quite fine. Cafe Siam unacceptably mediocre esp. given the prices (and a piddling selection of Thai dishes), Siam Elephant has some great dishes (deep-fried softshell crab in black pepper sauce, a couple of the curries, and ALL the salads -- and the ice creams) and the rest, appetizers esp, are sub-par. Though this place would not be on a par, in terms of atmosphere, with the places you mention in your post. Baan Khanitha consistently mediocre, not bad not great. For upscale in hotels I vote for Celadon at the Sukhothai. But if you really want really good Thai food you need to go downmarket a bit. Thais who eat "elegantly" usually do so at private dinner parties (having a maid who often cooks is not at all uncommon for middle class and wealthier Thais) and at restaurants serving other, usually Western, cuisines. And all Thais place a premium on taste and quality --- so more often than not when a wealthy Thai wants to eat Thai you'll find him or her in a favorite open-air noodle hut or modest restaurant.