docsconz

Family style dining has been popular in a number of Italian-American restaurants, especially with a southern Italian tradition. The difference is that you tend to go as a family (or a group) rather than being seated communally and order some dishes which are served from platters to individual plates. Paradiso in Saratoga Springs, N.Y. is an Italian-American restaurant that does just that today.

There is an elevator that takes you to the 4th floor to the "Food Court". It is located by the notheast entrance to the complex. I do not know if Per Se has an additional dedicated elevator.

If a particular dish doesn't work well in a smaller portion size, then the chef shouldn't serve it as part of a tasting menu. I like tasting menus largely because I feel that I'm getting what the chef feels is most interesting from his repertoire. While it doesn't always work out that way, it usually does. By the way, not all tasting menus consist of a multitude of small courses. At Blue Hill, I had The Chef's selection which consisted of about 5 essentially full courses. Once again, I received some dishes I might not have ordered, but I was not disappointed.

Good thread, Owen. Artisanal cheesemaking is growing in this (NE) part of the state and is certainly flourishing in Vermont. Nettle Meadow from Warrensburgh, N.Y. makes some outstanding organic goat cheeses. They have developed a name for themselves.

Then it is all the more reason for him to serve his food this way. Actually your point is well taken. If I was able to frequent TFL or Per Se, I would be much more interested in more in depth explorations of the cuisine. However, not being able to do so, I was content with sampling many different things.

Fascinating. I had no idea that baguettes and croissants are such recent inventions. Thanks.

I may be wrong, but my interpretation of the ratings were based on value, in other words the quality of the experience per dollar spent.

Mags, I see that youagree with me that it is impossible for something taken away from its principle context to be 100% authentic. But, I believe that is a given. There are degrees of authenticity that have value to different people for whatever reason. The Broadway touring Co. production may not be quite like seeing a show on Broadway (although that is debatable), but it is a damn sight better and closer to the Broadway experience than your typical community theater production. Not everyone can get to Broadway to see a show even if they live in NYC. Sometimes people have to take what they can get in order to experience something they yearn to for whatever reason. As such, the closer to the model the more authentic it is, even if it can never be 100% authentic. It might not be as good as the model, but then again, it is possible to be even better, especially as regards food.

Sounds great, Tana. Is there any collaboration between CASCC and Slow Food? It seems as if there would be a natural fit.

Great report and discussion. I have my own opinions on Tasting menus, whiich coincide with a number of posters here. They can be found as part of the discussion on this thread.. Thanks, Tana, for turning me on to this report.

Thanks, Tana

It does so by slowing down the absorption from the GI tract, presumably by trapping it and delaying contact with the mucosa. Fats and proteins work somewhat the same way to slow down absorption of simple sugars, only they are eventually absorbed as well. Lucy, once again, the photos are incredible. They complement your writing beautifully.

Steven, I don't believe we are disagreeing, but perhaps looking at the same thing from somewhat different angles. I don't think that there is anything cutting edge going on in the world that is based on "authenticity" in which the model is somewhere other than the place and time of that particular restaurant. Per Se is not The French Laundry, because it is in New York even though the Chef and apporach to food are the same. The overall experiences are inherently different. But that doesn't mean that there isn't any value in a restaurant attempting to be authentic to another time and/or place. It doesn't have to be cutting edge to be good, nor does it have to be 100% authentic (impossible) to have a sufficient degree of "authenticity" to be enjoyed for its own sake. I think one problem in considering authenticity is the frequent lack of realization that there are multiple variations on authentic. It is difficult enough within the city of New York to come to an agreement as to what makes "authentic" New York Style Pizza!

Why is it meaningless? To some, perhaps, but not others as I explained above.Whether an "Italian" restaurant in NYC is truly "Italian" doesn't matter so long as the food is good and they are not portraying themselves as the ultimate in "Italian" authenticity. But it does matter to someone who is looking for more than just whether or not the food is good if they are trying to evoke a memory or a mood or an experience real or imagined. There may be a lot of fantasy involved, but that doesn't make it meaningless.

I see nothing inherently wrong in trying to recreate an authentic experience from another place and time, though it is actually very difficult if not impossible to accomplish. Even if the same ingredients with the same freshness from Venice can be obtained anda restaurant designed to evoke a sense of place of Venice it still isn't Venice and therefore as good as it may be it will still fall short. Of course for a lot of people who love Venice and have great nostalgia for it or others who may never get to the actual Venice it may be better than nothing and therefore useful. So, Steven, in answer to your question "Who gives a crap?", I would say people with a romantic notion of time and place who wish to evoke a sense of nostalgia for what was or what might be. If it is done well, it is a useful ideal for some. So, as far as the question "Is it authentic?" is concerned, I would say, authentic to what? It depends on what the restaurant and the customer are trying to achieve. As you say, Batali, by his panitalophilism, is not really authentic to Italy, but with his New World sensibilities is authentic to himself and New York.

This is a very interesting discussion. If a restaurant is striving for "authenticity" say to provide an ambiance, ingredients and traditional recipes from a location and fails it is either a bad restaurant because it cannot complete the task, perhaps because it cannot get adequately good "authentic" ingredients or it is inauthentic because it is not familiar enough with its model to get it right. If, however, a restaurant uses a cuisine as a model, but does not strive to strictly emulate that cuisine then it is "authentic" to its creators ideals whether or not they actually work. This probably applies to most restaurants in NYC.

It seems Mr. Sifton was in a bad mood that evening. Too bad for the restaurant. I thought it sounded pretty good despite what to me sounded like a disparaging tone.

It's not original to me either!

Bleu, I have just discovered this thread and read it from the beginning. Fabulous, as usual. A word about carbs: not all carbs are equal. Simply there are simple sugars and complex carbohydrates. I certainly do not know the details of the Montignac diet, but it seems that it is associated somehow with the glycemic index, which looks at how quickly calories are absorbed from the GI tract into the bloodstream. Simple sugars such as refined white flour sucrose or fructose (there really is no proven practical difference despite many claims to the contrary) tend to be absorbed most quickly, while complex carbs such as whole grains, certain veggies (unfortunately, tomatoes are full of simple sugars), proteins and fats less so. A meal unbalance with simple sugars is likely to put a greater strain on insulin production and glucose metabolism than is a meal that is more well-balanced. One problem I have had is limiting available snacks laden with simple sugars such as Krispy Kreme donuts. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon to find things like that lying around at work. I too have given up coffee and tea, both of which I love. They actually weren't as difficult to give up as I thought. Now if I had to give up chocolate....

Um... sometimes they are. He was from Romagna. What did he know of Neapolitan pizze?

A chef's management abilities are likely to be unrelated to his cooking abilities, but I'll bet they're not unrelated to the reputation of his restaurant. I would think it would be almost impossible for a restaurant to turn out sufficient quanitities of top notch food to rise to the level of world class without a chef who had both cooking talent and management ability. Once at the top, the chef should be able to step away from the stove more often than from the management if he wants the restaurant to stay at the top. I'll take that one step further, the meaning of chef is "chief," not cook. Although "chef de brigade" has come to shortened to "chef" and to mean cook in English, it refers to the person in charge of a kitchen crew. Julia Child, "The French Chef," was never really a chef and that's not the meaning of which we speak when talking about restaurants. Agreed, although some chefs may be better at organizing a kitchen for when they are not there than others. Some chefs may have personalities that they simply cannot delegate that responsibility and so feel that they must always be there, even if they could get away.

Cool site.

Now really, how can anyone who loves Neapolitan style pizze be evil?

I too love a good knish - true comfort food, but the knishes I most associate with growing up in NYC are Gabila's knishes, which are square. These are the ones served by most of the pushcarts in my recollection, although they are not necessarily the best. I like taking these knishes to make a "knishwich" by slicing them in half, spreading some mustard and good roastbeef and heating it up. Mrs. Stahl's in Brighton Beach make some pretty good knishes too. I'm looking forward to reading about your experience making them.

I too am very proud to be considered as part of an "axis" with Messrs. kinsey and Bavuso, both of whom I very much respect as people and as tasters. And yes, when it comes to the traditional round or "neapolitan" style pizza, I do prefer the pizze most resembling those of Naples, however, that doesn't mean I don't also enjoy a good "Sicilian" style pizza or what I still consider the consummate New York Style pizza, such as what used to be served at The Original Rays on 11th St. and 6th Ave.