Wendy DeBord

Thanks for the suggestions of mail order.....but thats just not done in kitchens. It's always a major hassle to buy anything from a company thats not one of their established proveyors...meaning you have an account (usually with net 30 or similar) and terms with them. It's a really hassle getting a check cut from their petty cash. Some restaurants/clubs are more liberal and you can place phone orders using the companies credit card.....but the clubs I'm working for now-not a chance I'd even suggest it. Still hoping someone might know of a source in the mid-west? Were any of you clients of Classic Gourmet? I'm really sad they're gone. They had great service, all the European products, the best lines for everything......I used to buy from them for myself and they never were a hassle over miniums or "who I was" (not a company). Is there any other one stop source/company thats similar (upscale pastry products) that anyone knows of?

I have a huge disadvantage in that I don't do my own ordering. I'M A TEMP., I will NOT be placing my own orders (so skip that suggestion). But I still have to comunicate with my chefs what I want and where they can get it- otherwise they'll just order whats cheapest and I'll have no input. I've given my chef a brand that I want to try E. Guittard (as Steve and Chefette recomend it). He's having a devil of a time finding someone who distributes this. After calling the company dirrect he can buy from them, but they have a 500 LB min. order (and that's not in the relm of possiblities) and two distributors in Chicagoland that carry their brand. Dawn and Bakemark (who if any of you aren't familar with those companies-their both large bakery suppliers), but both companys only carry Guittards coating chocolates, no couveture. I suggested he call European Imports because they purchased my favorite pastry company "Classic Gourmet" and promised to continue carrying their products. Sooooo turns out EI doesn't have Guittard in stock (aslthough they might be able to special order it)... and the sales person told my chef "Why do you want that brand? No one likes that brand." that's why they don't keep it in stock.... (I didn't appreciate the chef who doesn't have any understanding of chocolate coming back to me telling me that the sales person thinks I'm clueless and I want a crappy chocolate.) Then of course the sales rep. has to confuse my chef and push his stuff. Like I'm clueless and the rep. knows everything. Uurgh! So this is where I've been in the past: For many years I used Flechlin brand and loved it. But I was working at a place where money wasn't a problem and buying in their top of the line chocolate wasn't a problem. So at this new place I was offered Flechlin thru Albert Uster Co. at a great price and I tried a couple boxes. I didn't like this at all. It was their bottom line Flechlin...and had no similarity to their top line. Next I got in Cocoa Berrys Calaubout (53%). I don't like this either. The semi-sweet has to be adjusted in recipes because of it's density....and over all the taste on all (white, milk, semi) is nothing great-Nestles Choc. chips at the grocery store tastes better to me. While were searching to Guittard we got in a couple boxes of Calbouet with a 60-something %....and maybe I'll like that better....BUT the price is higher and my Chef is as cheap as they come and I know that price will be an issue down the road. Soooooo the point to this thread-well I have a couple. 1. Who sells E. Guittard in the Chicago area, anyone know? 2. I'm really mad at European Imports which promised to continue Classic Gourmets product line and have in only a very short time NOT followed thru with that promise. They are NOT stocking anything/product that doesn't do alot of volume. BUT as you and I know we need specialty ingredients and finding them is HARD. We don't need theses items in huge volumes. AND European Imports knew this before they bought Classic Gourmet- that's what was so unique about Classic Gourmet they had all the specialty ingred.. SOOOOoooo I'm really upset that I they broke their promise and I'm going to be struggling finding ingred. in the future. I want my Classic Gourmet back! 3. Sales rep.s- rrrrrrrr!

Jason, I layer cheesecakes regularly....it's not a problem. BUT I do see having the color blue as a problem-just gross-but what-ever......I think you'll need to add a little food color to balance out the red and blue. Layering works best when you choose thick cheesecake batters. It's easiest if you choose ones that contains melted chocolate (white in your case), because those are very firm batters comparitively. You pour you first batter in and smooth it out. Chill, either using the cooler or freezer (but don't actaully freeze your batter...your just using to to chill faster then the traditional cooler). Then when firm-ish you add your next layer. I find it best to use a cup and pour it carefully so the weight is being added across the whole surface (seems kind of obvious-but don't throw it all in the center), smooth, chill again, then add next layer. Bake. Is this now plated or passed mini's? Anyway...use a sheet pan extendor and just pay attention to the thickness and even-ness of each layer...so it's very consistantly on each level, same thickness in each layer through out (if your race through this it will look amatuerish).

Since I live in your area, based on my experience.....I strongly guess that your neighbor is refering to the "custard" filling they'd order from a typical bakery in our region. Bakeries buy it in buckets and it's non-dairy shelf stable item. They use it in eclairs, danish and as a cake filling. I think the stove top/cooked box of vanilla pudding is very similar.

It's not in Chocolate Passion.

Another angle is how you present your pastries...especaily if their passed. Theres many things you can do since you have a little money to work with. use striped joconde around your cakes or mini's, insert gum paste stars (on wires) or do similar and decorate with multiple sized stars in red, white and blue check out this theme in transfer sheets- theres some good patterns with this theme I think Uster (I know someone does) has marzipan flags, very realistic You can air brush colors onto your work, say a white colored mousse made in a mini demisphere- hit it with red or blue over the top (not completely coating it) and then insert a star cut out of white chocolate. You can buy colored sugars very cheaply. Completely cover the bottom of your tray with blue sugar and place mini's (in paper cups) on top. This actually looks cooler then it sounds. Maybe make a couple stars (gum paste or poured sugar on wire or sticks) and assemble them as bouquets on your trays to give the tray some dimension. Star shaped suckers-don't laugh it could be a good conversation idea and it's 'different'. For that matter how about strawberry and white colored/vanilla marshmellows cut into stars placed on a blue sugar lined tray....

I've purchased mini tart shell very cheaply at regular stores. Outlet centers if they have a cooking store almost always have these. You get like a 4 pack of assorted shapes. If you want ones that are all the same shape-then you have to buy from a bakery supply source and they are more money. Try: http://www.Kerkesequip.com I've found very good prices there AND their service was very good.

Congradulations Nightscotsman! This is a great start for your career and a very wise choice! I hope you'll still find time to visit here? I'll be really sad if you don't come back regularly and tell us how things are going and share all your new found knowledge. How very exciting this is for you...........

Well I have to admit-I've yet to ever make one myself (just hasn't come up). Regardless, I've been looking around and wanting to do so also and I noticed Payard has a recipe in his book. AND I've had nothing but great sucess with any of his other recipes.

Sounds good Bri! I'd love the recipe, thank-you!!! Your filling is very similar to what I do for a cobbler-I really like the cider-in fact I add some cider vinager (just a dash) and vanilla, I think it really enhanses the sauteed apples.... Hope your not offended Bri....but I still want to continue brain storming....if anyone wants to join in???? Your-Brians- recipe would require ind. pans if I wanted to reheat-and I don't have any ind. pans not even muffin tins. The chef I'm working for kills me by not giving me enough time. Typically I need to bang out 200 in an hour or less. He even buys pre-cut pp squares. Just thinking....maybe keeping the pp is fine but augmenting the apples is what I need to think about. Oh wait-the baked pp doesn't hold in the cooler so great. Hum....still thinking......... P.S. Just in case I forgot to mention this Brian- I've been using your tiramisu recipe as my standard-THANKS TONS! I've gotten nice comments from it.

I'm looking for something outside of the box-yet grounded and very easily done in numbers over 200. Both individual or large sized. Typical puff pastry base, pastry cream, apple slices-IS BORING/DONE/OVER! This may sound like an easy task, but I'm talking about/looking for something more cleaver then anything in my books. It would be ideal if it could be prepped in advance, maybe frozen in the raw state. If I had any molds I'd think about doing a thin cakelet type base and layer my fruit on last minute. Cakelet, as in, fanincier, madeliene, almond cake. But nothings is jumping out great. You gotta love the crunch of phyllo but that can't hold and is too fragile and messy for bulk work. What about some sort of poured batter base? Some struesel crumbled lightly on top of the fruit......... Anyone doing something different, yet practical? No pretty concentric apple circles for 200 people...........nothing served warm either.

Ah telling me more about yourself I see you probably aren't as exposed to Mexican food as we are in the States....I'm actually supprised-I thought there were Mexican grocery stores everywhere in the world, because they are in all the bigger cities and their surrounding suburbs in the US. I guess I'm pretty nieve (so I learned something about Germany tonight). Well there are times when you can play off a theme and not follow authentic foods. I think for example your mexican brownies is a good idea. I just personally don't find interest in the muffin concept....I don't think of a mufffin as dessert (in the States it's more of a breakfast item). Also I think you should do one authentic item otherwise is a faux Mexican meal. But perhaps I'm miss understanding what you mean by a muffin. A muffin where I live is a dense cake similar (usually the same batter) to a fruit bread usually pretty loaded with calories, it often has fruits or chocolate chip in it. When you write "muffin", do you mean a cake or a small fruit bread? To clarify, the 3 milks cake involves using all 3 milks, sweetened condensed, heavy cream and evaporated milk (do not use just 1 of these). The 3 are mixed together and poured over a dry sponge cake. This sweetens the sponge cake and makes the cake very moist. Freezing this is something you can do ahead of time, but your not serving it as a frozen cold cake. I highly reccomend you trying this, it's so easy and it's pretty good too. Sweetened condensed milk is very thick and sweet. Evaporated milk is thin and not sweet. Heavy cream is rich and somewhat thick. These types of milk are each different and can not be used interchangably.

If you are open to help, I'd like to suggest a different dessert. Mainly because-muffins are not a Mexican pastry and although I like the fact that your looking to do something visually cute for audience appeal.... I think you might find more 'wow's going down another more authnetic path. Two of the most popular/well known Mexican desserts are flan and 3 milks cake. Both of these can be done in advance and are delicious. If you don't own individual ramikins flan can be baked in one large pan. You also can flambee it for a little 'wow'...after it's unmolded you pour liquour over the top and hit it with a match, it looks cool in a dark room. But 3 milks cake would be the item I would choose to make in advance. The cake can be baked weeks in advance, then frozen. Take the cake out and let it defrost on the counter for 3 days (not covered in plastic wrap) to really dry out the cake. You mix up the 3 milks (which is rediculously easy, and it has a little liquour in it too) and pour it over the cake the morning you want to serve it. To decorate you can pipe whip cream on top and use exotic fruits to garnish. If you want something cute how about decorated sugar cookies...theres alot of really colorful and fun images you could do. Or if your not being a slave to making everything yourself....believe it or not I saw Churros in the freezer section at my local grocery store-serve them with the flan. A another idea....you deep fry flour tortilas and while they are hot sprinkle them with cinnamon sugar. Serve this with ice cream (several flavors would work well)and caramel/duce de leache sauce. Do you have a Mexican grocery store in your area? You might be able to buy (very in-expensively) some of the items you were going to make. You could make you b-day celebration a little less work -no harm in having fun on your day. For visuals there are many in-expensive decorations available to brighten your decor (from pinytas, to paper lanterns, flags, serrapas or serve a h.d. in a sombrero) or use the exotic fruits you see at your Mexican grocery store in bowls as centerpieces-turn your friends onto something new.

Congratulations! Would you tell us alittle more about the event? Where was it? How many people competed? Are all those photos your work? If not which ones were? Who did the judging? Was any thing prepared on site? What is the masterpiece compeitition and how is that different? I hope you'll come back and share all the details and your personal feelings about this experience?

Well you got part of your merginuefor your pie right, but your method was wrong. I've only read on this topic (I don't do alot of merginue pies)-I believe both "What Enstien told his cook" and definately "The Bakers Dozen" covers the use of cornstarch in meringue pie tops throughly. The later, has a web site and if your luckly they may have instructions and a recipe posted. As I understand you have to cook the cornstarch with liquid, let it cool- then you add it to your whipping whites. This use of cornstarch in meringues for pies is supposed to work fab. it stops the bleed-out. There's been a few studies of this topic attempting to make meringue using several methods. Then you also have to add in the baking factor while can ruin even a perfect meringue. Both over baking and underbaking will make it bleed. BUT as far as I've read CORNSTARCH is the magic answer to meringue pies.

I've got to admit I'm not very fond of dried fruit. The best ways of working with them that I know of is reconsituting them in h20 and or liquours, once they're plumped up, they improve greatly....and you won't find uses so limiting. My favorite use for dried apricots is a apricot souffle. Or dip them in alot of chocolate and use them on fruit trays.

I can tell you from experience that you CAN use chocolate chips in vertually all the same applications as a 'normal' couveture. Occasionally some adjustments need to be made buy adding shortening to thin the vesocity, when dipping strawberries or other fruit. When my Mother owned her bakery (in the earily 80's) she couldn't afford good chocolate and used nestles chips- I spent years working with them-they do work in all applications I can think of at this moment. Although using chips is far from ideal!! Believe me- there are some 'professional' brands out there that are far worst then Nestles and Hersheys. The callebaout I have right now at work -I think the flavor is less then a Nestles chocolate chip! It barely melts in my mouth and has NO flavor (the callebaout). The bulk bag of ghiredelli (sp?) at Sam's club also tastes better them some of the "professional' brands I've gotten thru big name Pastry Supply companies. The squares your talking about-I'm not sure I'm following you. DO you mean the 10 lb blocks of couveture chocolate? Your not talking about unsweetened chocolate squares, are you? Rules you can and can't break- 1. You can sub. any bittersweet with a semisweet. 2. You can not sub. unsweetened with bittersweet.

Oh yeah bighat, that's not real chocolate. Pate a glacer must contain hydrogenated oil, because it remains soft-ish. You have to keep it all in perspective. Mainly cost! And it has to be practical to a bakery that will need to make it in bulk-hold it for a week or more, pour in over frozen cakes and return to the freezer. You can't cut all your corners and have a great product in the end, but I do think you'll be forced into making certain compromises to remain competitive or die with high standards. The BIGGEST part of our pastry buying market buys according to price. If your price isn't in the ball park they won't even taste your product. Sure it would ideal to run your business as the French, with exceptionally high standards.........but you better be prepared to suffer and you sure better have contacts with the best of the best buyers who don't look at price, only quality.

Sounds to me that he'd like the effect that freezing has on a dry meringue. Make your meringue as usual assemble your torte, freeze, defrost and your meringue will be just what you described. A dacquoise would be much thinner, it doesn't hollow-which happens in a completely dry baked meringue...and a macaroon would be far chewier.

Brian, I hope you keep this updated with your results, I'm certainly interested in what you deside upon. I have to do similar-freeze finished product. To date I've used straight ganche mostly. Sometimes it seems to me that it just doesn't matter, sorry I'm inserting a negative..... I was appalled last week when I watched my chef defrost a frozen cheesecake by sitting it under the lines heat lamp for hours. I've tried to explain-but after a while you just have to keep your mouth shut and let them ruin and even promote food poisioning (with other examples)-maybe then- they'll learn. I actually had a small break thru on Valetines day, I got him to let my desserts sit at room temp. before being served (that only happened because there wasn't room in the cooler at the station that serves dessert). He usually CHILLS the darn dessert plates too-yummy- hard cold chocolate-urgh! I'm sorry-yes you should do your very best- anyway!

I vote it's savory....in the regard that I wouldn't serve it last as "dessert". Granted a taste might change my opinion...........if it was VERY sweet. Not sure what's to be leery of? I think it would work before or after a salad or meat entree.

First tip to all: I've seen Tyler attempt to bake a couple items and he is NOT an expert in that area. I would not follow his techniques as gospel. The items I've seen him bake were extremely poor, with bad craftmanship and some with bad recipes. But he sure is cute to look at! I'm tired but I'll give it a go. For the quick answer McDuff is right. My response has more detail-don't know if your interested in the reasoning or not. First pie dough and tart doughs are different and the same rules don't apply equally to both. To acheive a flakie pie crust you need pockets of fat aprox. peas size. If you over mix your dough you will completely incorporate your fat and it will become mealy and not flaky. When the butter in your pie bakes out it leaves thin air pockets which creates a flakey texture. So you use cold butter while mixing the dough so it won't all mix in. Then you let your butter get hard from refridgeration again so it won't blend into your dough as you roll it into shape. If your butter is too cold it is hard to roll and will break (which would be a problem for some items but not a pie crust because pie crusts have small air pockets not layers). But in this application (pie) cold butter doesn't make it more difficult to roll. Cold dough handles better with less sticking to the table, allowing you to use less flour when you roll it out. You then refrigerate it again before you bake it, a cold crust will shrink less. Think of how heat works -the outer surface gets the hottest fastest. Pies crusts are baked at higher heat (above 350) around 400-this intense heat cooks the outter surface quickly-that sets it and prevents it from shrinkage. Although there will always be some shrinkage and there are further techniques to help with that issue....as srhcb mentioned in their post. Over mixing your flour will develop it's gluten which you don't want....but some development does happen no matter how deft you are in pie making. If you roll out a dough thats freshly mixed the gluten strans will be very tight and it will take effort to roll out your dough. If you wait, the gluten will relax-and I believe it will relax regardless of refridgeration like a bread dough does. There are recipes that use vinager and lemon juice which do help prevent gluten from forming even if you over mix. Which is another "trick". Theres some truth that giving it a rest lets the moisture distribute better through the flour. But it wouldn't apply to a tart dough which has a different make up. HTH

I think the obvious answer is which ever is dominate, dictates which it belongs in. Theres a world of difference in whats exceptable in fine dinning verses dinning. Haute dinning is that- where anything and everything is explored. Fine dinning has already traveled down this road...they're blurring all the lines and inventing new paths. I don't see the average dinner who runs to comfort foods as welcoming this. Although I've been places where their condiments like ketchup was so sickly sweet, that maybe they are already doing this. She writes sort of jokingly... As far as pastry chef and chef becoming one person.....I don't think there are enough genuis's in this world entering the food profession that can do both. The knowledge involved in doing both well is staggering. Most chefs (average joe chefs)can barely do one well, those that do-engrose themselves in their work and have little time for anything else in their life. In addition the possiblity that the hot side chefs and pastry chefs brains seem wired differently makes the cross over even harder. Technically we should be a mesh of knowledge of both sweet and savory cooking to do our jobs well. Most chefs cross over (I worked on the hot side for years) with-out it being a big deal, but at least for me I discovered that one area interested me far more, thats why I choose to specialize. I think you need to spell out exactly what your creation is, lets see if it falls into a catagory. Your descriptions of using a pastry like technique and presentation doesn't change the chemial make up of a savory into a sweet. It's sounds like a "faux" pastry thats a savory item.

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I didn't understand much of what you wrote, I'm sorry. Perhaps you'll restate what you mean or my following message will help....(hopefully) First, an angel food cake will always have a uneven top as will most cakes...but the tops of an angel food cakes are uniquely rough, denser then the inner cake and never flat. I believe that using baking strips as suggested wouldn't be appropriate for an angel food cake. You will always need to trim angel food cakes if you want a perfectly flat top....even if you turn your cake over and make your top now the bottom- you'll need to level the previous top. Second, are you saying she baked this in 2 pans and each one your calling a layer? If so-you'd have a nicer cake if you'd baked it in only one typical angel food cake pan with a hollow center tube, then splitting it into layers when it was cold. The real problem is: Because of the composition of an angel food cake- it can't take much weight with-out breaking regardless of how you attempt to frost or layer it, whether its level or not. You must choose a frosting that is light, so it won't break the cake under it's weight....this cake isn't stong. What type of frosting are you attempting to use? My suggestions: bake 1 cake recipe in 1 pan, let it cool upside down until very cool/room temp.. De-pan it and let it rest uncovered for a couple hours. This will dry out your cake a little and make it easier to slice. When you slice your cake into layers use a serated knive and cut confidently and quickly thru the cake being careful to use your energy force cutting sideways and not pressing downward as you cut. Choose a light frosting, preferable one that doesn't need refridgeration.... I hoped that helped

Ah, thats was one of the things TJ bragged about his recipes...that they handled well on frozen and refridgerated cakes. But it depends upon what you mean by fragile. Is it that you need something hard/firm that won't get dented while handling or do you mean shine? Cause the chocolate one is softer then a ganche on a cold cake-it's meant to keep the shine....but you can increase the chocolate as I did to firm it up. Other thoughts for a firm coating if you make a ganche using callebeut brand chocolate it will set very firm, freezing well, so you can be rough handling and then once defrosted you can still slice through it. But as Steve mentioned in another thread callebaut isn't a great tasting chocolate. I think a recipe using the pate' a glacer might be the best thing for your needs (because it's remains a soft "chocolate" and is cheat)-but it has the same taste draw backs as Callebuet. Obviously looking at TJ's recipe it's a compromise using a good tasting chocolate and a cheap one. You also might want to look into premixed purchase mirrors-I don't know but someone might have a decent formula.