Wendy DeBord

I've printed the recipe out, can't wait to try them (it may be along time.......but first chance I will)!

That's the perfect answer Pastrymama!

John sort of beat me to it, but just in case you don't know this..........we have several active members here that are professional chocolatiers/confectioners. Here's Trishiad, she's even posted a couple demonstration threads for us. Here's Samaki, she was recently featured (had an article including her recipe published about her caramels) in Fine Cookings Holiday Magazine. Here's Christopher Elbow, he posts under the name of Cotovelo. And of course you got John DePaula's website. If I've forgotten anyone, please forgive me...........

I'd line my pan with parchement paper before placing my fruit and caramel in the pan (spray the pan well with pan release before placing the parchment in it). That gives your some assurance that they won't stick too badly to the bottom of the pan. You can almost always apply dirrect heat (with a blow torch or a hot waterbath, etc....) to re-melt/warm the butter/fats in your item in a non-warm pan, so it will release cleanly from your pan. I often put items away in my freezer with-out unmolding them from my pan. When I want to release them, I warm the bottom of the pan with my blow torch. BUT............there's another issue for you to consider with an upside down cake. That is: the flavor moisture is dependent upon you inverting the cake while warm so the caramel/syrup from the fruit gets absorbed back into the cake. If you don't invert your cake while it's warm you'll loose that factor/benefit to your over all taste.

I checked my yolks today and they don't contain sugar......for what thats worth.........

I make them. The only advice I can think of is to chose good ingredients... like a really good brand of raspberry preserves.... good marzipan. It is difficult to cut perfectly as I need to do for work, preslicing desserts. Instead I make them in individual sizes or change up my layers so I put a layer of cake ontop right under the marzipan. Or sometimes I've layed my marzipan on in pieces/slices so I don't have to actually slice thru that to make my cut.

I use cartons of yolks for my brulees and they set perfectly. I'll take a look at work today and see if my yolks have added sugar............. P.S. Do a P & B search on the topic of creme brulees. We've had some very good discussions about them, such as having a hard time getting them to set........... I'm sure you'd find that thread helpful.

You can add mustard, either wet or dry. Just not too much as to effect the proportions of the recipe moisture wise. You can also add seasonings as in herbs, garlic, onion, etc... and egg wash the top and sprinkle more on before baking. P.S. Personally I wouldn't use Ong's recipe for gougeres. It does have a sweet taste in your mouth when baked regardless of how little sweetened condensed milk it has. I'd choose a drier fimer pate choux recipe as my base to add cheese too. Ong's recipe will taste great fresh out of the oven as a gougere but I fear that when it sits and then gets reheated it will become a bit too soft.

Only some people use a mix to save time.....others use it because they like certain aspects that a mix has...and I suppose some people use it because they don't know how to bake a consistant cake with-out a mix. I use them because that's what my client prefers in white and yellow cakes. I've conducted some fairly extensive blind taste tests and the doctored box mix is what gets picked the most. Which doesn't mean that I prefer them.

Wow, nice Tepee............

I've been to Rolf's many times. Mainly to attend pastry demonstrations after hours, put on by Albert Uster Co. in conjuction with The French Pastry School. The owner is a very very generous nice man..........can't say enough kind words about him. His shop is imaculately clean in front and back!! He supports higher learning, gives back by opening his doors to others, etc.... Their pastries are o.k.. I'm sorry, don't mean to sound mean spirited, I'm just really picky being a pc myself. They are more impressive visually then Bennison's.

I'm glad you brought this thread up Ling. I've been wanting to make the brownies in Recchiuti's book.......has anyone tried them yet?

I do work in a place where I'm rarely face to face with my customers. But I started helping my Mother who was baking out our home, using cake mixes........back in the 1960's. Later she opened a bakery, where she further continued to use a cake mix and always was upfront about it. I've had people ask me if we/I use a cake mix for the majority of my life. When I became a pastry chef I desided to learn all I could and not follow in my Mothers foot steps exactly. The reason I use a mix for white and yellow cakes has nothing to do with her or my past, I just wanted you to know that I've been asked the question about scratch or box most of my life. When I get down to the reasons why someone would ask that question........it has never has made real sense to me. It's clearly not about health reasons. If so, they'd just ask "do you use __ because I'm allergic to it.". None of the people I've ever met who have food allergies have started their inquiry beginning with the question "Do you use mixes?". One has nothing to do with the other because you can't know/assume that every box mix has the exact same ingredient your allergic to. The real "arugment/discussion" I believe comes down to making some sort of judgement when you ask a baker if it's from scratch or a box. I don't want to start on this sort of discussion path with a client. Instead I want to know why are they asking (so I can answer any real health concern questions)........that's what I meant when I wrote before that I'd side step the question. Ask me the real question you have on your mind. I don't advocate lieing on any topic and I also don't advocate people asking mean spirited questions. Just tell me why you want to know, and I'll tell you.

The name of the magazine is the title of this thread: "Pastry's Best". You can ask for a copy at www.pastrysbest.com It's distributors list: European Imports, Chef Source, Las Vegas Gourmet, Chef's Warehouse, Mirabella Foods, Koerner Company, Dairyland, Harry Wils, Eurosource Gourmet, Culinary Source, BK Enterprises, Peterson Company. I finally got my Sept./Nov. issue of P A & D, it's my favorite issue of the year! It's got their coverage of their event The National Pastry Team Championship. They did a couple pages that show how to make some of the sugar items made in the competition.............so that's way cool to have that insight (I'd love to see even more)! I've had great sucess in the past reproducing the recipes offered by the various teams published in this issue.........so I'm looking forward to making and tasting what the best were making.

I recieved my free copy of this magazine yesterday and had to come here and give HUGE Kudos to them! This issue hits a home run, big time! They are putting out a professional magazine written by pro.s and geared for pro.'s. It's just want I want in a trade magazine!!!!! Every page has content I want to study. Every ad (which there are very few) is well done. Where to start........... First page has a full page ad for Dobla.....show's beautiful pastries and then it tells me I can get a free copy of doblas catalog which includes recipes and concepts as well as info on using their products. THAT'S AN AD! I need to get my hands on that catalog. They reach out to their consumers very well and really make me interested in trying their products. Then the editors letter reaches out to the reader with sincere effort. Then another great dobla ad. Followed by, The Technical Side of the National Pastry Team Championships written by Chris Northmore.........that's just auesome! They show photos and explain what new techniques were used...........a real behind the scenes look that I've always longed for. I'd love to see something like this written on every culinary event and competition. They've got Anil Rohira contributing! Then you get a glimpse of Thuries Gastrononie Magazine in a multiple page article on incorporating saffron in your desserts with recipes. (I've got to subscribe to this magazine) Next up is Pasticceria Internazionale magazines articles with beautiful photos of panettones. (I've got to subscribe to this magazine too) Last clip from another magazine is from American Cake Decorating, teaching gelatin flowers. (I already subscribe to them) Good god........then we get two recipes from Joel Bellouet and Jean-Michel Perruchon'! Outstanding......... Next page has Accentuate your Chocolate Flair with a 'how to' by Stephane Glacier..........again auesome. (I've got to buy his book) Next, making Textured Mats, made easy by Michael Joy..........my heart is racing.........this is sooo cool! (I've got to buy his book) Then we get a article and recipes by our own Mitch Stamm on pretzels! If they can keep this up I'd say we've finally got a magazine that we wanted. My hats off to Pastry's Best Magazine, their title might be true.

I completely have to disagree with these comments though. It's not inappropriate at all to want to know what you're eating; it's not rude, and as professionals are we not obligated to disclose ingredients to those who ask? Mixes do contain emulsifiers and preservatives, and sometimes food dyes, and some people may be asking due to allergies. I don't think lying about the quality of your product is appropriate or professional at all. And if you do feel the need to lie, couldn't one assume you're not proud of the product you're using? If that's the case then you shouldn't be using it. If you don't have any issues with what you're using then you should unashamedly disclose it. I don't mean the recipe, I mean the ingredients, especially if those could be an issue for someone. What's wrong with saying you use a doctored mix recipe? People do know what that means. There's only 2 good reasons for someone to ask: 1 ~ They want to know what they're eating, or may not want to eat cake mix - so be it. Be truthful. 2 ~ They're fishing for any excuse to lower the cake price. If that's the case and they found out you were actually baking from scratch, believe me, they'd find another reason to whine about how it's not fair they have to pay for something they ordered. ← Honestly, your response feels like your trying to make a personal dig, instead of making a discussion. I resent you stateing that I need to "lie". I think your way off base. I don't lie, didn't lie. That's why I stated right out that I use a mix for white and yellow cakes. And I have the guts to stand up to people that look to berate people that do. The vast majority of people use mixes and theres plenty of reasons why each person chooses that route or not. Because you don't approve of it, what gives you the right/higher ground to stand in judgement of people that do? I am NOT proud that I use a cake mix for white and yellow cakes. This has nothing to do with pride or shame! I'd rather have a great recipe for those cakes if I had the choice, that's why I'm constantly seeking them. If you have food allergies I can understand asking about ingredients in items your going to eat. Your free to ask me if I've added any emulisfiers or preservatives, ABSOLUTELY! Your free/welcome to ask me what ingredients are in ALL my baked goods. (I can't wait to tell you about the lye I use too.) But asking if something is from scratch or a mix is a noisie question, in my opinion. It's not asking what's in the product for health reasons. It's asking if I cheated or if I'm posioning you, if I use your reasoning. Pastry chefs are not the only professional chefs that use mixes from time to time. Chefs often use batter mixes from pancake, waffle, fish fry batter to stuffing. Do you enter restaurants and ask chefs if they use mixes too? Plenty of professional recipes include emulisfiers......they aren't horrible unnatural dangerous chemicals placed in the item to posion the consumer. Butter/fat and salt and sugar can do every bit as much if not more harm to the human body too. I think the one thing most people don't like about cake mixes is the artifical taste. They do taste of fake vanilla. But the moisture and crumb of them make that factor override the fake taste for many peoples choice. If you can couple a cake mix with a great filling and frosting those flavors do help out the cake mix. They don't completely cover them. But it's a choice. And many people prefer that choice and I see no reason to judge others choice so long as it doesn't infringe on your choice not to make or eat that.

If your speaking personally to me, I have not given up. Not at all! In fact we have threads seeking the best scratch white cake and yellow cake recipes here in the P & B Forum. As of yet, I don't have that great recipe and none of the recipes offered were any better, in my opinion. If YOU have a great recipe for those two flavors please be generous and share yours. I have plenty of time to wade thru a million crappy recipes and I have. But while I'm wading thru those crappy recipes I'm not going to serve them to paying customers if they don't exceed the mix I've got.

To explain...........or re-explain what I was trying to say.......... Core recipes, yes I meant components. You can and should understand the classics, but to make a really great classic dessert or contempory desserts you need really good core/components recipes. Understanding some of the differences between what makes that component recipe the best, verses another recipe for the same core/component is important knowledge. If you make the classics, their quality is dependent on the quality of the component recipes you've used. As a student you'll learn the core recipes the school/instructor teaches you. When you go to work for someone, you'll use their recipes. When you become a chef you'll need to have recipes you rely on. The better those recipes are the better your work will be. I'm always trying to collect a better recipe for everything I make. But to learn which is the best recipes for each component I have to make several and compare them. That's what I was suggesting you do. Make several pate' brisee recipes (from the best sources you can find) and test them, seek the best. Make several puff pastry recipes (from the best sources you can find) and test them, seek the best. And so on. You'll always need those recipes.........and you might not ever need to know how to make the classics (just know what they consist of).

That sounds like a great day to me too.............except it stinks being the person who's missing the holiday with their family to serve you.

I was really shocked when I entered Bennisons. Nothing suggests that their bread and or baker is world class. I had expected baskets of bread to choose from. Thought it would probably resemble a European bakery (I brought my camera along to remember their items). I was hoping to see some framed write-ups about their baker........maybe see an award or two sitting proudly on their shelfs. But the reality wasn't what I had pictured/dreamed of in my head. There were only 3 choices of bread on the counter to the right, and only a couple of each bread left. Then a bakers rack to your left which had a very limited selection of grocery store type pre-sliced white and wheat breads. The bakery didn't smell of bread. It smelled like stale xxxsugar. When you peer into their bakery from the outside window to the right of the door you look into their cake decorating room. The room is old, cramped, disorganized and messy. There's buckets of commercial cake fillings on the floor. It was not a pretty site to peer into..... I agree on your take of their cookies. They looked exactly like every other bakeries butter cookies (do they make them themselves or buy these all from the same suppliers?), they looked liked they had been sitting there for a long time. I did purchase their black and white cookie to sample. I have never had a black and white cookie, so I was excited to try one. I think theirs was made with a mix it was cake like (don't know if that's the right texture or not), it wasn't like any cookies I've ever made.........and it was definately stale. There wasn't much to buy and I had come prepared to spend! I wasn't going to buy a dunkin doughnut looking doughnut and that was there biggest selection of product in their cases besides the butter cookies. It was lunch time when I arrived and I had hoped they might have a crossiant sandwich or similar to take out. I bought the black and white cookie, a small loaf of the cabatta bread and 1 crossiant and left the store dissapointed. The crossiant was excellent. Had a great texture and taste. I wish I had purchased more. The cabatta was also excellent. I wish there had been more, I would have bought it to try. The whole way home in my car I day dreamed about contacting them to see if they were interested in a pastry chef to help them out with their sweets (hell I'd help them for free just to watch them do breads). They had nothing interesting happening with their sweets. It didn't make any sense to me that a world class baker didn't have a world class store, even if his passion was breads and not sweets. I don't get why they don't feature his breads more and pay more attention to their merchandising. If he's not into sweets that's o.k. then go into bread and merchandise your store with items that pair up with your breads. I was hungry when I visited the shop around lunch time. There was nothing there to buy for lunch. Not even a wedge of cheese to go with their breads. They've seriously overlooked their using their store for generating sales. I was sad. There was a dirty ole fondant wedding cake on display with-in reach of customers and it had been touched too many times, it could never sell a bride on that example. I was bummed out. So much potential, so little done to show it.

I'm really glad you started this thread! It's cheered me up and helped me think of what I should do. I have to work Thanksgiving day. I'm sending my hubby to visit with his family ..........which leaves me alone when I return home. I had no idea Boston Market would be open, that's great, I'm so happy I read this thread. Over the past few years my hubby and I have done Mexican and Chinese over the holiday and that sort of left me/us feeling depressed. The next day everyone asks how your dinner was....... and you can't really tell them you ate chinese or didn't get together with your family (then they feel bad). At least I don't feel comfortable making something up. So Boston Market will be my savior this year. I won't feel like I missed the whole tradition. Next choice..........which movie to pick, hum.......something I want to see that he'd never want to see.........

Welcome to The eGullet Society For Arts & Letters Teri Everitt! If you need any help posting photos please don't hestitate to ask me or my co-hosts for assistance. I use stencils with cigarette paste making joconde cake, but hadn't thought about using the stencils with tuile batter on x-mas cookes. Thanks for the great suggestion........it's got some really incredible potential.

I guess I'm lucky because no one asks me if my cakes are scratch or mixes.........so I don't have that problem. I think the best way to handle it is to side step the issue. I think it's sort of rude for someone to ask if it's a mix or scratch.........are they judging your ability to bake or are they looking to see if you'll give them the recipe. If they are judging you, ignore them (they must be mean spirited). If their looking for a recipe they can reproduce it's up to you if you want to share. Why I'm not crazy about the first version of a doctored mix you mentioned: I can bake a great scratch cake that's dense and easy to cut for shaped cakes. Most butter cakes and pound cakes work well for that purpose. That doctored version is very heavy and just not my ideal cake for that purpose. When I'm using a white or yellow cake mix I'm using them because I can't achieve the lightness and moisture balance the mix has, that I can't find in a scratch cake.

I've had that happen to me too jturn00 when I began learning how to make these. It is really frustrating, but don't give up, it's just a small glitch you'll get past. I attribute it to the molds not being clean enough/polished clean before applying your cocoa butter and colors. Or......possible scratches in your mold. How did you polish your molds before you began? I currently use cotton balls to polish my molds between uses. When I used a cotton cloth, I didn't seem to get it as perfectly pushed into my mold to polish every angle as perfectly as needed. Having your molds at room temp. or warmed effects the shine (positively) but to the best of my experience it doesn't effect it so that they stick to the mold. Sticking (for me) has always related back to how well polished my molds were.........or if they weren't completely set when you unmolded them. But perhaps someone has a different answer..............

I'm a professional pastry chef and I use cake mixes. I hate to get into the debate making it a "snob' type issue or not. I just don't see it that way at all. I've been searching my whole life for the perfect white cake and the perfect yellow cake and haven't found them yet. I've got many 'close to' cakes, like great pound cakes, butter cakes, genoise, etc.... but nothing that matches what consumers like/want in white and yellow cake mixes. The day I have recipes for the perfect white and yellow cakes, I'll be thrilled. I'll use them as much as I can, just as I currently make every other cake then white and yellow from scratch. But that leads me into a current issue I deal with. I do make a damn good chocolate cake from scratch. But sometimes my job is so over whelmingly hard to keep up with the demand placed upon me, that I still have to resort to using a chocolate cake mix from time to time. This past week prepping for Thanksgiving has me turning to a mix for corn bread. It's not that I can't make a darn good one from scratch. It's about doing what one has to do to survive. In a perfect world I wouldn't choose to work for an employer that forces me to make that decision, but I don't have that option either. Your never going to please all the people all the time. Theres tons of aruguments one can make with people who act like snobs about using convience products. I'm not going to go there, it's a rediculous argument......some are good some are bad, it's a really long winded discussion that will end up with no real answer. I think it's safe to assume your not intentionally looking to do something less then your best and if your best involves a mix, it's your business not anyone elses. That topic aside. I've tested many many cakes. Mixes aren't any different in that some are better then others. I'm not crazy about the recipe you mentioned, just my personal take on it. I was raised on the following doctored mix and like it alot: 1 DH cake mix 1 pkg instant pudding 4 whole eggs 1 c. water 1/2 c. oil But now as I've had the chance to work for others (in a bakery settings) there are commercial cake mixes you can buy that are just as good or if not better then the type of mixes you get in your grocery stores. So I think you'd be wise to test out as many recipes/mixes as possible before you settle on one.