Anonymous Modernist 14040

Noooooo. Do not treat it the same way as a beef, unless you want to eat a chunk of rubber. Kangaroo is significantly leaner!

Thanks vinio, good tip there. I suppose corned beef really comes down to a question of how I want to cure it, followed by how I want to cook it.

I wonder. Pressure can rice in a jar. Open it while still hot. You could make home made puffed rice that way. A bit of risk at heat and splatter, but nothing a good towel cannot take care of.

Time depends on thickness. 55.3c is a good temp for roo. I followed the slow-cook blog's post on it a while back and it was just right. I did mine for a bit over 4 hours, it was a thicker cut, but the slow-cook post called for 3 hours. The rule of thumb (that I was taught) is body temperature for read meated animals + : 11.5c to 14c = rare 15c to 20c = medium rare 22c to 25c = medium Tougher meats require longer cooking times and higher temps. Kangaroo lives around 36c. I like my meat medium-rare. 36c + 17.5c = 53.5c; but since it is tougher I like a little hotter, but still in the range of medium rare is 36c + 19.3c = 55.3c. Fish are a bit lower, because the meat is softer and cooks easier; white meats tend to be a bit closer on the scale also, but it all seems to work out +/- a bit. Of course, that depends on you being able to look up the animals body temperature.

The dark oil seems to be caused by the quality of the oil. I have done this twice now, with four jars each time. The first time I burnt everything, not horribly, but just enough it sucked. The second time I did four different oils: two different olive oils, grapeseed oil, and canola oil. One of the olive oils is about 1/4 black at the bottom, one has a skim of black but not much, the grapeseed is okay on the garlic but 1/2 blackened (too hot for it), the canola oil is clear.

Anyone have a modernist recipe for Corned Beef? MC@H only has two references to corned beef, both derogatory "and if you do this wrong you get corned beef". What if I want to do it intentionally? The full book set has several mentions to corned beef, but I am not sure if it has any recipes. Could someone share if there is a recipe for it, I only have access to it via the library. Or if someone has their own recipe, I am all eyes. Only recipes I have found are here: http://www.cuisinetechnology.com/blog/recipe-sous-vide/contest-winners-sous-vide-corned-beef-recipes-3172012/ Thanks!

Not all pressure cookers offgas. The one I use for garlic confit is a closed system. If steam is coming out, it has reached over 30 psi! It also maintains pressure quite well, because the steam recondenses at the top and drips back down from the top. However, you are right, once things get going, the temperature usually can be reduced to a lower stability point.

Honestly, I just use a digital pH probe. I am color blind, which makes litmus paper nearly useless for me. As a result, several years ago I picked up a digital probe. I keep it stored in a pH neutral solution and depending on how often I use it either recalibrate weekly or at the next use if over a week. Only takes a few minutes to calibrate and it keeps on working. It may not be as absolutely accurate as when I first bought it, but I can replace the end of it if I ever want to for fairly cheap.

I am planning to make the Cheese Grits this weekend. Recipe seems easy enough. Except I am going to be cooking for about a dozen people and expect them to eat about 1.5 servings each (a few will eat two or three servings, some only one or less than one). There will be other food, but I cook for this crowd regularly and have come to expect this ratio for the main dish. Thus, I want to cook up about 20 servings. Scaling the recipe up is not a problem. However, I am wondering how much I can scale up my pressure cooker. I have an old style pressure canner that does not vent unless it goes above 20PSI. I am experienced using it and have used it for quite a few other pressure cooked recipes (in jars) without issue. Thus, I am not concerned about using it here other than to answer the question of how much I can put in. When I can foods, I can do two full rows - one on top of the other (with a seperator) with about 8 pints per layer. Here the recipe calls for pint jars, which means I would want to put in 10 jars. Normally I would split this in to two layers of 5 each, filling up the bottom layer to an inch up the jars. Does anyone see an issue with doing this much in the pressure canner or doing a double stack? Or should I simply stick to as many jars as I can fit on one layer and just do two batches? I mean, I do have two pressure canners and one pressure cooker (non-gauged), but my wife would kill me for putting all of them on the stove at once! Thanks.

Would probably keep sealed for months at room temperature even, given how long it is cooked.

My understanding is that the problem with storing garlic confit for more than a month is the risk of botulism. Storing it in the freezer would stop that, but you would change its texture and depending on how you sealed it get some drying and browning. Not necessarily bad things, but ultimately up to your taste buds. Try it and let us know how it works! However, I have freezed whole garlic cloves in oil for a couple months without issue. Garlic is one of the botulism-risk foods when stored in oil. After three weeks in an anaerobic environment, botulism will start to develop to sufficient levels in order to be toxic; somewhere after four weeks when under refrigeration (as I understand it). The thing that I always question, when warned about the risk of botulism in things like garlic confit, is the how. Botulism spores are destroyed at 116C after 15 minutes. This recipe is cooked at 121C (1bar/15psi) for 2 hours. I cannot see how any botulism spores would be left. Thus, I do not see the risk of botulism. In fact, I have a hard time seeing why you cannot put a proper seal on it, let it can, and keep it as a canned food for 6+ months, except for the possibility that the garlic and oil break down(do they?) during that time and just end up not tasting as good. For years I have canned lemon curd, in a pressure cooker, and it keeps for about 9 months before separating. Nobody has died, I have sent it in to a lab to be tested, and I have never had a problem. However, I ensure that my lemon curd is below 5 pH and preferably around 4 pH at which point botulism cannot survive. The ideal pH is 4.6, but you have to be very aware of what your pH meter's error range is when trying to hit that. That brings a person to the idea of acidifying the garlic confit. Acidification garlic as a home cook is considered to be unreliable. The reason, as far as I understand it, is because you have to acidify the garlic to its core. Garlic is harder and less absorbant, which means if you do not pickle it, you are not going to successfully acidify it. I question though why the modernist home cook cannot use industrial methods for acidification of garlic. To acidify garlic normally citric, acetic, phosphoric, or gluconic acid is added until it is below 4.6 pH. (see http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/7231.pdf) You could acidify garlic puree reliably, but whole garlic cloves will be more difficult. To do a whole clove, you either have to let it pickle, pressure pickle it so it is minimally pickled but is acidified to the core, or inject the acid in to the garlic clove's core. Normal pickling of garlic takes 3 days to a week, minimum, and varies by clove size/porosity/etc. And any of these methods of acidification run the risk of changing the flavor of the garlic itself. While garlic does have anti-microbial properties, it is only for vegetative pathogens. Thus, botulism is not affected by garlic's anti-microbial properties. Garlic pH is 5.3 to 6.3 on its own. Sorry for the rambling. Honestly, I would be tempted to try setting garlic in acetic acid for a week, bring down its pH, core some of it (the bigger cloves) and puree the cores, test the puree'd pH, if it is good use the remaining cloves to make the garlic confit. Then keep a jar of it around for 6 months to a year and send it off to a lab for testing. Then again, with this cooking under pressure for two hours, I would be tempted to dust my garlic with botulism spores ahead of time, can it this way, and then wait six months and send it in to a lab, just to double check. No idea where you could obtain botulism spores readily though.

Carrots are juicy. Do not underestimate them as a source of liquid also.

Carrots are juicy. Do not underestimate them as a source of liquid also.

I am curious about why MC@H excludes the chamber sealer also. To me it has three factors that make it superior to the standard vacuum sealer: 1) LIQUIDS - you do not have to pre-freeze them! Plus, you can use it for sucking our out of them. In an edge sealer the liquid gets sucked out. 2) Stronger seal - higher compression rate, stronger seal, plus it is tuneable. Edge sealers often leave a little bit of air, which expands when heated and makes sous vide balloons . . . 3) Powders - you do not have to worry (as much) about the powder being sucked out of the bag. Edge sealers have a tendency to suck out really light powders, if you do not use a big enough bag. Biggest drawback is they take a ton of space. And I have no idea why they left the Pacojet in, other than to brag about having one. It is cool, but there are so many things I would rather have first: centrifuge, chamber sealer, combi-oven, etc.

I am curious about why MC@H excludes the chamber sealer also. To me it has three factors that make it superior to the standard vacuum sealer: 1) LIQUIDS - you do not have to pre-freeze them! Plus, you can use it for sucking our out of them. In an edge sealer the liquid gets sucked out. 2) Stronger seal - higher compression rate, stronger seal, plus it is tuneable. Edge sealers often leave a little bit of air, which expands when heated and makes sous vide balloons . . . 3) Powders - you do not have to worry (as much) about the powder being sucked out of the bag. Edge sealers have a tendency to suck out really light powders, if you do not use a big enough bag. Biggest drawback is they take a ton of space. And I have no idea why they left the Pacojet in, other than to brag about having one. It is cool, but there are so many things I would rather have first: centrifuge, chamber sealer, combi-oven, etc.

And is massively price gouging people for it. Yikes! Activa RM: 1kg = $82.99, so 8 cents per gram. 50 gram packet = $12.99, so 25 cents per gram. Markup is 300%. I understand there is more labor involved, but that is a huge markup. Plus, 50g is a LOT of meat still (12-15lb meat). Be nice to get it in 10g packets (2lb) or maybe 20g. Good idea on using a whipping siphon to purge. Be nice to get something heavier than air though, purge the chamber vac, then seal multiple packages at once. Could preseal a larger pack into multiple smaller packs, fill those in a purged container, then run the sealer. Then again, it might just cost that much in markup due to the cost of purging everything. What I do not know is how oxygen sensitive Activa really is. If it can stand a few minutes, we would be fine. Here is someone who used resealed Activa without issue: http://blog4foodies.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/reconstructed-atlantic-wolffish-using-transglutaminase-aka-meat-glue/ I suppose we could experiment: buy once, repackage it, and see what happens.

And is massively price gouging people for it. Yikes! Activa RM: 1kg = $82.99, so 8 cents per gram. 50 gram packet = $12.99, so 25 cents per gram. Markup is 300%. I understand there is more labor involved, but that is a huge markup. Plus, 50g is a LOT of meat still (12-15lb meat). Be nice to get it in 10g packets (2lb) or maybe 20g. Good idea on using a whipping siphon to purge. Be nice to get something heavier than air though, purge the chamber vac, then seal multiple packages at once. Could preseal a larger pack into multiple smaller packs, fill those in a purged container, then run the sealer. Then again, it might just cost that much in markup due to the cost of purging everything. What I do not know is how oxygen sensitive Activa really is. If it can stand a few minutes, we would be fine. Here is someone who used resealed Activa without issue: http://blog4foodies.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/reconstructed-atlantic-wolffish-using-transglutaminase-aka-meat-glue/ I suppose we could experiment: buy once, repackage it, and see what happens.

Passive RFID temperature sensors exist in small sizes and have fairly large ranges. For example, Phase IV (http://www.phaseivengr.com/p4main/Sensors/WirelessTemperatureSensors.aspx) puts out a miniature RFID temperature sensor with a range of -40C to 180C. I would like to be able to put one of these sensors in a small, sealed stainless steel tube, and then inject that tube (pill?) into a solid I am cooking. For example, inject it in to the center of a piece of meat that is then put on a sous vide bag, and use it to periodically monitor the core temperature of the meat. Could be the same when the food solid is put in an oven or anywhere else. Could also be used for liquids, if it was suspended. Does anyone know of something prebuilt for this purpose that is already on the market, and, if so, where to get it? And if not, is anyone interested in figuring out how to put something together to do this? Or is this just a silly idea, because we can calculate the inner temperature mathematically or by pushing a probe through the side of the bag and taping it in place?

Passive RFID temperature sensors exist in small sizes and have fairly large ranges. For example, Phase IV (http://www.phaseivengr.com/p4main/Sensors/WirelessTemperatureSensors.aspx) puts out a miniature RFID temperature sensor with a range of -40C to 180C. I would like to be able to put one of these sensors in a small, sealed stainless steel tube, and then inject that tube (pill?) into a solid I am cooking. For example, inject it in to the center of a piece of meat that is then put on a sous vide bag, and use it to periodically monitor the core temperature of the meat. Could be the same when the food solid is put in an oven or anywhere else. Could also be used for liquids, if it was suspended. Does anyone know of something prebuilt for this purpose that is already on the market, and, if so, where to get it? And if not, is anyone interested in figuring out how to put something together to do this? Or is this just a silly idea, because we can calculate the inner temperature mathematically or by pushing a probe through the side of the bag and taping it in place?

I had noticed a few typos too. However, I do not understand what you mean by inconsistent level of precision? Both are precise to the thousandth. That would be the same degree of precision. It would be insane to write 0.00220462 lb. As it is, home equipment that can accurately handle 0.002 lb without breaking the bank is far and few between. Most scales are accurate to at most +/- 1.5g.

I would be interested. Especially if someone has a chamber vac and would be willing to reseal the ingredients (especially Activa, although its oxygen sensitivity poses an issue for repackaging) in smaller single-use size packs. I would be happy to lend a hand filling and sealing small packets, but do not have a chamber vac yet. Otherwise, I find things like Activa turn in to a brick quickly if not resealed properly. I suppose I should ask elsewhere for storage tricks for ingredients.

I would be interested. Especially if someone has a chamber vac and would be willing to reseal the ingredients (especially Activa, although its oxygen sensitivity poses an issue for repackaging) in smaller single-use size packs. I would be happy to lend a hand filling and sealing small packets, but do not have a chamber vac yet. Otherwise, I find things like Activa turn in to a brick quickly if not resealed properly. I suppose I should ask elsewhere for storage tricks for ingredients.