kostbill

I am trying to make pudding with carrageenans. I am looking for a silky texture like Danette (I don't know if this is available in the USA). My two first experiments were a complete failure, any help would be nice. I used 200g milk, 30g sugar, 0.3g carrageenan lambda and 0.3 carrageenan iota. Bring up temperature to 85C, hold for a couple of minutes and pour to ramekins. - The batch failed due to frothing, milk frothed even with minimal whisking. Even after I let it rest in the fridge overnight, it was all froth. I tasted some, it had a horrible almost solidified frothy texture and I threw it away. - Second batch had a lot of froth as well, but less than the first batch. After the overnight rest, I removed the layer of froth (it made a distinctive sound!) and the bottom layer looked like it was smooth. Alas! It was not, it was super grainy. I need to understand how NOT to froth the milk and I need to understand why the carrageenans didn't produce a silky smooth texture. The list of ingredients of Danette (chocolate) is this: full-cream milk and concentrated skimmed milk (83%), sugar, syrup of glucose, thickeners: E 1442, E 407 (carrageenans), cream (2%), lactose, flavor, starch, salt, dye: E 160a (beta carotene From this site: https://www.frenchclick.co.uk/p-80-danette-vanille-4x125g.aspx I imagine that the modified starch is there because it has good synergy with carrageenan.

Oh yes I know the conversion, that is why I am saying that it is about the same RPM. I was trying to say that I am using both rotors lower than the max speed. Also you are right, the centrifuge recognizes a rotor not meant to fit there, it displays something like: "bad id". I used Virkon S (the one also suggested from the manual) to clean the rotors, then I let it dry and applied WD40, then let it dry and applied vaseline on the shaft and the inside of the rotor that touches the shaft. This thing requires regular maintenance and I have no idea if the previous owners were doing a good job at it.

Hi and thanks for the answer. The rotor that can hold 300ml, can go up to 5574 RCF (about the same RPM) The rotor that can hold 800ml, can go up to 6455 RCF. I am using both at 4000 RCF. Thanks for the info. If anyone else have info on their centrifuge, please share. Thanks.

Well, I looked again at the the rotors and there is not a big deal scratch, just a small one. I applied wd40, as the manual instructs, I also applied vaseline on the moving parts. I am trying to find an anti-friction oil (but I suspect any oil will do here). However still in the back of my mind I am afraid. I read somewhere that centrifuges should be considered lethal laboratory instruments.

You mean 4000RPM? Well I am mostly clarifying juices and follow Arnold's method. I have a pretty good scale that can go a tenth of a gram so I don't worry about the weigh. One of the rotors have a scratch, I will photograph it and upload later today.

Hello. So I bought a used centrifuge, the harrier 18/80 refrigerated that can hold up to 800ml with one rotor or up to 300ml with another one. I am now concerned about safety. I was browsing through centrifuge accidents in google last night and I got scared. I read that centrifuge explosion is quite common ( ? ! ) in laboratories and it can happen for many reasons, a bad rotor being one of them. But I have no way of knowing if my rotors are bad. I noticed however that the bad accidents happened with very high speed centrifuges, for example somewhere near 55RPM. Mine is going to be used only at about 4000 RPM. Does anyone know if that kind of centrifuge spin can be dangerous? Thanks.

Spinzall seems like a very nice solution, but I am afraid that, since I am in Greece, I am not going to have adequate support if something goes bad.

Yeap, just like this one here: https://www.cheftools.co.uk/products/item/PrO-Xtract5-Ambient-Centrifuge-1-Litre

@Kerry Beal, you are probably right. I just used pectinex that I had in my pantry for about a year, and it worked! I sous vide orange juice and strawberry mush for about an hour at 35 degrees and then I strained them and passed them through coffee filters. The yield was low but remarkably clear! I had some problems with the filters. I think I should use Chemex which are stronger. Anyway I am going to use some other product now. I am about to buy vinoferm zymex and some other enzymes and compare. In a very utopian future, I will buy a centrifuge, but I am not a chef or anything, and perhaps spending 2.5k for a centrifuge may not worth it.

noone?

Hello. I would like to buy some pectinex ultra sp-l. However I am worried about the temperature during the shipping time. I read that the storage temperature should be between 2 and 8 C. It works best from 15 to 50 C, and if it stays a lot of time in 25 C, it will gradually be deactivated. It needs a week to come here (Greece), then will it affect its abilities? Do you know if I can find a document somewhere that explains the gradual loss of power as a function of time and temperature? Did you have any experience with pectinex not working well due to bad storage? Thanks.

I have no idea how the cocoa particles look like, for example, can they trap water and swell so that they will be smoother on the tongue? In any case, even though I think you are correct, I will give it a try, perhaps the overall feeling in the mouth is different.

I was browsing around for carrageenan uses and I found this, which is quite interesting: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/food-science/milk-homogenization "For a good swelling of the cocoa particles and therefore an improved dispersability, the cocoa particles are first mixed into milk at a ratio of 1:2 and held for 2–3 h. Sometimes, this mixture is heated up to 80–90°C for 30 min instead". Perhaps this particular way of swelling the cocoa powder will provide a very good texture. I will try this.

Yes there is also the low fluidity series of Callebaut: https://www.callebaut.com/en-GB/chocolate-video/technique/fluidity The higher the fluidity, the more the percentage of cocoa butter. I also ordered the L-60-40 (https://www.callebaut.com/en-OC/chocolate-cocoa-nuts/l-60-40nv/l-60-40nv), which is the lowest fluidity (actually they arrived today at work) and I will try this chocolate as well. The Valrhona ice cream with P125 is the one I am planning to do.

So I made some chocolate sorbet with the Valrhona P125 (https://inter.valrhona.com/en/our-products/couverture-chocolate/p125-coeur-de-guanaja/bag-beans). For a first experiment, I just omitted the cocoa powder. I don't really know if the result was successful because the mixture would not set in the ice cream maker. I guess it may be the small cocoa butter amount. The result was that I had some ice crystals. Perhaps I will double the amount of locust bean gum. Anyway, about the flavor, it is more chocolaty indeed, even without the cocoa. However this effect may not only be due to the high cocoa solids amount, but because the low cocoa butter amount is not able to mute the bright chocolate flavor. Any ideas on how to make the ice cream to have more body without cocoa butter? Perhaps double guar? My next experiment (perhaps today) is going to be chocolate ice cream.

This is a nice field for experiments. I ordered the Valrhona P125 (https://inter.valrhona.com/en/our-products/couverture-chocolate/p125-coeur-de-guanaja/bag-beans) and from next week I will start experimenting. Although I am afraid that without cocoa powder I will not find the strong chocolate flavor I enjoy. Next step is to order the Callebaut cocoa powder. At least this is cheaper.

I see, I would imagine that the pudding texture is more or less due to the stabilisers. From your blog I see you are using guar gum and carrageenan lambda, which are capable of producing the pudding effect. I am making eggless crème brulé with carrageenan lambda and it is amazing by the way. Anyway, so now you have two choices: - either use lot of chocolate with the pudding texture effect, or - use cocoa powder with a sand texture effect.

Indeed, but is this what Paul means? English is not my mother tongue, but I would think that this is not an issue of texture but hardness. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Paul, I have a question, you wrote: "For chocolate, this mostly means using couverture, but this choice comes with a litany of texture challenges from the cocoa butter". How does the cocoa butter affects the texture?

From what I understand, cocoa powder will most likely be very coarse unless the manufacturer is using very expensive equipment. The reason that chocolate is so smooth, is that the cocoa powder in it, has been refined for hours with the other ingredients in order to be less than n microns (where n is less than the minimum diameter the human tongue can understand). The cocoa powder that derives from the separation of cocoa liquor and cocoa butter, is not refined so much. That is why I want to try either the Callebaut low fluidity chocolates, or the Valrhona P125, because they have less cocoa butter so I will not need cocoa powder. On the other hand, Callebaut states that they also sell cocoa powder in small quantities. One would think that since Callebaut is selling it in small quantities, it may be used by the common user that does not have expensive equipment at home. So, perhaps it is very well refined. P.S. Paul I really love your website!

Perhaps you are right and the blender is not needed. After all, locust bean gum and carrageenan lambda ΑΡΕ fully dispersed in the water. No I didn't try to taste the syrup, but it seems like a good idea, I will try it. I actually think that the word gritty may not be the 100% correct word here, I can better describe it as sandy, but only in the aftertaste, like my tongue stays covered with sand.

Next time I will try this. Thanks.

Hi, I meant the recipe mentioned in the previous post, David Lebovitz's chocolate sorbet. Yes, the grittiness is there even before the churning, right after I chill it enough to taste it. Do you think it may be the chocolate and not the cocoa? After I boil the water, for about 3 minutes for the locust bean gum to hydrate, I don't melt the chocolate. I transfer the hot syrup in the blender and add the chocolate pieces slowly. The blender is shaking after each addition but it get's the job done very nicely. The blender is working for about 2-3 minutes and then I chill the mixture.

Hi, I am using this recipe, with the addition of locust bean gum and carrageenan lamdba. I have also tried it without these. You don't understand the cocoa powder in the aftertaste as rough? I am not alone here, some friends have also mention this. I have tried to boil it with the water, nothing. I tried to simmer it, again nothing. I bloomed it (little water and constant stirring and again a little bit more water), nothing as well. What am I doing wrong? In my next version I will not have cocoa powder at all and see what happens.

What kind of cocoa powder are you using? I am having grittiness with a cheap one and with expensive ones like Valrhona.