Richard Kilgore
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Posts posted by Richard Kilgore
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Today I am drinking a 2007 Menhai Tea Factory "Lao Cha Tou" -- "Old Tea Nuggets", a ripe Pu-ehr tea sample Greg at Norbutea.com sent with an order. Brewed gongfu style. Even thougn I am not getting as fast a pour as I would like due to some clogging, the first and second infusions are very good (after a 10 sec rinse). But I liked the first infusion better. Clearly many infusions left in the leaves.
The fact that I over-brewed this compared to what I would normally do and it still came out very smooth and delicious would make it a good first cooked Pu for anyone wanting to try Pu-erh. It apparently is quite forgiving...if ugly to look at. The nuggets are unappealing visually compared to the appearance of more typical Pu-erh cakes and bricks. Nonetheless, this is a ripe Pu I will order more of.
So, what are you all drinking today?
I ended up doing four infusions within two hours and then left it alone for several hours. I then did another rinse and have now done another six infusions, the last one for three minutes. I can tell the infusion is weakening at this point, so I'll probably do just one more and stretch it to four minutes, then call it quits.
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I'm bumping up this topic since the question of multiple infusions comes up in the Tea 101 topic.
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Since understanding multiple infusions is a common type of Tea 101 question, I have bumped up Re-steeping tea -- multiple infusions.
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I particularly like your one-cup set, Lior. Where was it made?
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Today I am drinking a 2007 Menhai Tea Factory "Lao Cha Tou" -- "Old Tea Nuggets", a ripe Pu-ehr tea sample Greg at Norbutea.com sent with an order. Brewed gongfu style. Even thougn I am not getting as fast a pour as I would like due to some clogging, the first and second infusions are very good (after a 10 sec rinse). But I liked the first infusion better. Clearly many infusions left in the leaves.
The fact that I over-brewed this compared to what I would normally do and it still came out very smooth and delicious would make it a good first cooked Pu for anyone wanting to try Pu-erh. It apparently is quite forgiving...if ugly to look at. The nuggets are unappealing visually compared to the appearance of more typical Pu-erh cakes and bricks. Nonetheless, this is a ripe Pu I will order more of.
So, what are you all drinking today?
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This morning it's PGTips.
Yes, PGTips. I have learned how to brew it and find it to be an okay CTC quality morning cup. I don't know that I would buy another package of it, but my curiosity is satisfied.Tonight it's a Longjing Dragon Well from The Cultured Cup. Brewed gongfu in a gaiwan. I'm on the third infusion with more to go. Very good, but not as deliriously good as it was a few months ago when it was fresh.
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Four of the samples are spoken for now.
There is one free sample from Greg Glancy at Norbutea.com left of this Oolong TGY. If you are interested in it, please read the first post and send me a PM with your mailing address. I'll mail out the samples tomorrow.
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This morning it's PGTips.
Yes, PGTips. I have learned how to brew it and find it to be an okay CTC quality morning cup. I don't know that I would buy another package of it, but my curiosity is satisfied. -
right now, measuring tea by volume. But I can certainly see how measuring by weight would be more ideal. The size and shape of tea leaves can vary quite a bit from type to type. But I am not sure I want to go out and get a small scale that can weigh to a 1/10th of a gram!
A scale is not a necessity, but sure does help. I did not bother to get one until this year when I started ordering many tea samples at a time and so was faced with learning the brewing characteristics of new ones continuously. If you ever do want to weigh them though, a tenth of a gram sensitivity is what's needed. My one gram sensitivity My Weigh kitchen scales are great, but are not right for teas.
Here's the one I use, the My Weigh 400-ZH. The price of small, very precise digital scales have really come down in the last few years.
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Overall though, I am basically working on a way to "wing it" with teas that will be part of my regular rotation. That doesn't mean I'll be totally sloppy and random, rather I may not always be using precise measuring devices for the various components and factors in making tea. I mean, it's tea. It shouldn't be *too* complex, right? It's not like baking. Or doing "molecular gastronomy"
I don't look at it as a matter of "shoulds". It is tea and it is a matter of whatever pleases you.
I tend to think of teas as more like a cross between wine and mixology rather than baking or molecular gastronomy.
Teas and brewing them can be as simple as a tea bag and boiling water. And it can be fairly complex, with hundreds of teas to choose from in China alone -- about 80 famous ones by some counts, multiple techniques for brewing them, the tea making equipment of many countries to choose from, and tea ceremonies that last for hours. And many points in between.
So please yourself with whatever level of simplicity or complexity appeals to you.
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Ah! An enamel-lined Tetsubin for serving rather than brewing. That makes sense to me. My questions about them have to do with them for brewing, where the heat retention is so strong that it may be a detriment to delicate green and white teas.
An unlined one for use as a water kettle appeals to me.
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Since the question of measuring often comes up, I have started a new topic on To measure or not to measure...that is the question.
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For Gyokuro, I have also been interested in the Tokoname Shiboridashi Set on the Japanese Green Tea Shop website.
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Over on the Tea 101 topic the issue of measuring water, leaf and timing has come up. My impression is that the tea world is roughly divided into those who are inclined to measure and those who are inclined to wing it. Much like the baseball fan world tends to be divided into those who are most concerned with the stats and those who are most concerned with the human dynamics.
Personally, I tend toward winging it, especially when it comes to weighing the amount of leaf. But I have found that I can be way off with estimating the amount of leaf needed. One teaspoon full of a CTC leaf is a lot different than one of a wiry Indian leaf or a large Oolong leaf. So I finally broke down and bought a small pocket scale that weighs to one-tenth of a gram. And it has definitely helped with the learning curve for new teas. With inexpensive teas and ones I know I can replace easily, I often still wing it, but for teas that are hard to find or expensive it is more than helpful.
I do use a timer (or count off the seconds with Puerh and Oolongs brewed gongfu style). Although I use a thermometer to check the water temp, I now know my water kettle well enough that I can tell the temp within a few degrees by sight and sound...but only about 75 - 85 % of the time.
How about everyone else? Do you tend to wing it, or measure?
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I'll be interested to do some experiments with texture. I will say that I have been frustrated a time or two with beans that should be creamy but came out mealy no matter how long they were cooked. I wonder if salt was the culprit.
Could be that the beans were old and/or not stored under optimal conditions. And maybe some varieties just never attain that creaminess that you're looking for?
I agree. I have had a problem with cooking some pinto beans for 2 - 3 times longer than normal and them never cooking properly. I doubt that salt was the cause. I believe they may have been both old and improperly stored. These have always come from bulk bins. My best success has been with those packaged by Goya and bouight in a store with rapid turnover.
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Greg, can you tell us more about Japanese Hohin sets - what's in a set and how they are used?
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My two cents...I mailny use a 100-150 ml glazed ceramic Gaiwan with a "fair cup" (serving pitcher) for steeping and serving tea. Gaiwan literally means "lidded bowl," so it makes sense that it is just a little bowl/cup with a lid on it and a saucer to set it on. About 95% of the tea I drink is Chinese, so I tend to use Chinese teaware.
Gaiwans are used a couple of different ways. First, people drink directly from them. In teahouses throughout China people drink tea directly from their gaiwans, using the lid to hold back the floating leaves. Second, it's easy to turn it into a vessel for Gong-fu style steeping because it's so easy to decant the liquor off of the leaves after a short steep. Just pop a little filter on the fair cup and pour the liquor from the Gaiwan (using the lid again to hold back the loose leaves in the bowl) into the fair cup/serving pitcher. You use the fair cup to make sure everyone gets their fair share...thus the name.
I use my Gaiwans in the second way almost exclusively, although when I want a cup of matcha at my office I have been known to use one for that, too. I prefer a gaiwan for gong-fu tea sessions simply because I tend to taste a bunch of different teas in a day, and all I have to do is rinse it out between defferent teas. That, and I don't have to keep 4 or 5 Yixing pots around at my office!
I'm a lot like Richard in that I collect teawares and my choice of vessel tends to be specific to the type of tea I'm drinking. For me, the teaware provides an insight into the culture that has evolved around the tea expereience itself, and the materials used to produce it are secondary to their function. If I had to pick, I would have to say I like ceramic and cast iron best with glass and other metals trailing far behind them.
Like I said, just my two cents.
By the way, does anyone know a source for a good quality Japanese Hohin set that won't cost me my left arm? I'm already thinking ahead to all that awesome green tea in the spring...
Greg, what is it you like about cast iron and what teas do you brew in cast iron?
I have been using porcelain Chinese gaiwans (50 ml to 120 ml) for new Oolong and Pu-erh teas that I will later use Yixing for -- in order to evaluate the tea without any influence of seasoned clay. And for green Chinese teas, as well.
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I have been following this thread with interest.
I just started brewing loose tea in a seperate, pre heated, ceramic pot.
my latest tea is a
ti kwaun yin oolong, and I am also using an English breakfast and an orange spice .
I am brewing 20 oz batches (the size of my cup), using about 6g per batch
My question is , how critical is the temp of the water , and what allowances do I need to make for a lower than 212º temp.?
My max temp(depending on barometric pressure) is 201º +- 2º or so.
Any direction would be appreciated....
Bud
Thanks for jumping in to the discussion, Bud. Here are some ideas you could try. Whatever tastes best to you is what's important, of course.
TGY: 2.5 g per 6 ounces water at 195 F for 3 minutes, first infusion. Add one minute for each subsequent infusion. You may well get 4 infusions or more. If #4 is beginning to taste a little weaker, you can try to save #5 by using a little less water and/or increasing the temp.
English Breakfast: 2.5 g per 6 ounces for 4 minutes, first infusion. 5 minutes second infusion.
If the orange spice is an herbal tea or is black tea based and has been tasting a little weak, increase the amount of leaf and/or extend the brewing time.
For all three then, you can experiment from your starting point by adjusting the brewing time and/or leaf:water ratio until you get the best result for your taste.
Any one else have suggestions for Bud?
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I'll say that I am still refining my brewing process based on the equipment I currently have on hand in the kitchen. I'll also say that my measuring may not always be super precise, especially the water part. Maybe the containers I brew in aren't exactly holding the amount I think they are. I measured them in advance and noted what they held or where 8 ounces or 16 ounces would be. In other cases, I've filled the container up, dumped it into a measure and then calculated the number of 8 ounce servings I can get. (for example, 3.5 servings) Then, from there, I can get a decent approximation of how much tea I need. So, if the tea were to say 1 tsp. per 8 ounce cup, I would use 3.5 tsp. for the pot. Really, I am trying to make this pretty simple without getting *too* anal about all the measures. I'd like to think that by some point, I could say "to make a full pot of this tea in this pot, put in x amount of tea and fill with water"
When you heat your water, do you carefully measuring out the amount of water you need, then heat it, then use it all? I don't do that. I just put some fresh tap water into the kettle, put it on the stove, let it boil, then pour.
Unless you think you have mismeasured or are not fairly sure of where the 8 and 16 ounce lines are in your pot, what you are doing sounds realistic to me.
I'd like to think that by some point, I could say "to make a full pot of this tea in this pot, put in x amount of tea and fill with water"Yes. After you have played with the variables and have figured out how you like it best, you should be able to do this with no trouble for a specific tea.
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I AM doing multiple infusions, but so far all of my comments have been about the initial infusion. I don't want to skew anything in case I am doing multiple (second) infusion with teas that aren't suitable for it. I think I will hold off on commenting about that until I get a better feel for the initial infusion. (that, and it may warrant it's own dedicated topic)
The results of the first infusion can inform what to do to get the most out of the second infusion.
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I'm away from home at the moment, so I don't have access to the bags of tea, but from the top of my head, let's go with one I did this morning.
Ceylon Sultane
First Infusion
Amount of tea: by weight or by volume: 2 measuring teaspoons *
Infuser?: No. Brewed loose in pot.
Volume of water: 16 fl. ounces **
Water type: City of Dallas, straight from the tap.
Pre heat brewing vessel and cups? YES
Brewing Temp: Full boil when poured. (212 F) But I didn't actually temp it. ***
Length of brew: four minutes.
* I used plastic measuring spoon. My more preferred stainless measuring spoons were in the dishwasher
** I didn't actually pour from the kettle, into a measure than into the pot. I measured the volme of the pot in advance and got a reference of where 16 ounces would be.
*** I didn't temp it throughout the brew process either. No real convenient way for me to do that with the equipment I have.
This turned out well, I think. Better than when I first tried before. I think maybe I measured a little better this time, getting the ratio of tea/water more correct.
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Pouring directly from the kettle makes sense to me, too. I go by the temp of the water that is poured, but not during the brewing. No reason to check the temp throughout the process as a regular thing, but you may find it interesting sometime to check the temp a couple of times between the start and say 5 minutes for each of your brewing vessels just to get a sense of how they hold/lose heat.
For your Ceylon, my suggestion would be to increase the leaf: water ratio from 1 tsp to 8 ounces to 1 tsp to 6 ounces for your 4 minute first infusion and see what changes in the aroma and taste.
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For brewing, I am starting with the guidelines suggested on the bag the tea came in (TCC prints up labels for each). I measure as carefully as I can by volume. All the teas I have save one say 212 degrees for a temp. That's easy. I just bring it up to a full boil. I live close enough to sea level to make that essentially 212. The water is right out of the tap. I DO let it run for several seconds to ensure it's fresh.
I think maybe you are right that I slow down a bit and try to explore what I have and experiment more with brewing the teas I DO have. I still have plenty of each to do so.
I think maybe I am not being clear about what I think from experience will be helpful. Or perhaps I misunderstood and you are not asking for assistance with getting the best infusions out of your tea leaves. I understand that you are "starting with the brewing instructions on the bag the tea came in from (TCC prints up labels for each)".
From what you have written, what we do not know is 1) what the label says for each tea, and 2) how much water you are using each time you make a first or subsequent infusions, 3) if you are doing multiple infusions and what parameters you are using for those. We really can't tell exactly what you are doing, so it makes it difficult for us to make suggestions for tweaking the brewing of the first or subsequent infusions. If you are indeed wanting some feedback, here is what I am suggesting you tell us; if not, feel free to ignore:
Name of Tea
First Infusion
Amount of tea: by weight or by volume ____
Volume of water:______ml/ou
Pre heat brewing vessel and cups?______
Brewing Temp:________
Length of brew:________
Second and Subsequent Infusions:
track same data for each infusion if you are doing multiple infusions
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I thought I'd post a bit about my expectations for this tasting. I'm a tea neophyte with an interest in having quality tea at work. I'll be using the this 16 oz ingenuiTEA system to brew it. Not ideal, I know, but I'm sure I'm not the only person interested in tea who has logistical limitations but wants a swell cup.
I'm also finding that I really like oolong teas and will enjoy having my palate stretched toward quality. The oolongs I've enjoyed are a bit roastier (my favorite thus far is the roasted twig oolong from Teance), so a lighter style will be intriguing.
Thanks, Richard, for getting this exciting project rolling!
That should work fine, Chris. While the device holds up to 16 ounces, it looks like it should be effective with the smaller volumes you will want to use in order to experiment with the TGY.
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There's one sample left. Please PM me after reading the first post in this topic.
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I'm having a hard time really evaluating the teas I bought last weekend.
I am trying my best to follow the brewing recommendations. Amount of tea, water temp, and time. I have been brewing in coffee mug with no infuser or anything. When it's done, I pour it into another mug (warmed) with a infuser basket in it to catch any leaves.
I am not sure what it is exactly, but I think I am hung up on thinking tea needs to be "strongly flavored" to be good. Now, of course, there is nothing wrong with liking or preferring a strongly flavored tea. But I think that I am unable to appreciate something more subtle.
I just made a cup of the Darjeeling I bought. It's nice, but it's not what I would call a strongly flavored tea. Last night, I brewed up some of the Blue Spring Oolong. That had an interesting sweetness to it. There were also some other things going on in there too. While not a "strong" tea, I think the Oolong is something I need to look into some more.
Still unsure if any of the ones I have from there now will be in my regular rotation. The Ceylon Sultane was nice. The French Breakfast seems like it would be great if I were having a plate of cookies or something like that.
But back to strong teas. Can anyone recommend some strongly flavored black teas? Next time I get down to TCC, I think I will be more specific in what I ask for.
We're going to be able to be more helpful, Jeff, if you state exactly what you are doing when you say you are following the brewing instructions. Specify time, temp, amount of leaf and amount of water -- each time and for each infusion. Also are you using tap water or filtered water. As I mentioned here somewhere, vendors brewing instructions are often fairly generic, do not necessarily brew a specfic tea best, and most importantly such directions are best used as a starting point for experimenting with the various brewing parameters to get the best result for your taste.
From my own past experience, I think you may be on to something regarding realizing that there may be more subtle aspects of tea drinking and that you were anticipating a "strongly" flavored taste. While there certainly are very good strongly flavored teas, developing a tea palate takes some time and experience with many teas for most of us.
You may just want to settle on two or three teas quickly and then stock up on them, and that's fine, but if you are taking a more explorational approach to all this, then I would encourage you to slow down and buy only an ounce of each tea at a time and continue to play with the brewing parameters for each tea to learn what produces the best result for you. An ounce of tea goes a long way, so even when I find a tea that I like a great deal, it is unusual for me to buy more than two ounces at a time.
You are right that there can be a lot of things going on in an Oolong, and there are many kinds of Oolong with different flavor profiles.
And it is also true that everybody does not like all teas equally well. It may turn out that you don't care that much for Darjeelings, for example, but very much like Assams or English breakfast blends.
You want to meet a strongly flavored tea, so I'll send you a few grams of a Lapsang Souchong, a Chinese red/black tea with a smoky, leathery aroma and taste. Keep it away from your other teas, or you'll end up with Lapsang Blue Oolong.
Tasting: Fall 2008 Tie Guan Yin
in Coffee & Tea
Posted
The five members of the eGullet Society who signed up for the free samples for the tasting and discussion are ---
baroness
jpr54_
jsmeeker
chrisamirault
naftal
I am jammed up tomorrow, so these will go out on Thursday.
Chris posted about his expectations for the tasting. Anyone else?