Richard Kilgore
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Posts posted by Richard Kilgore
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Only one sample left. Please PM me after reading the first post if you would like one.
Brew, sip, discuss.
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I see all sorts of pots out there. They are made of ceramic, china, glass, cast iron, stainless steel, and other materials. Some are big, some are tiny. There pots that look like they would be used in a proper high tea by a Brit and pots that are straight out of Japan and China. Are some materials better than others?
That's a lot of questions packed into a few lines. Here's a condensed version of my experience with some of these.
Glass holds heat the least well, followed by stainless steel. Various clay, ceramic, porcelain, China materials hold heat better, with a range of heat holding capacity among them. Many think the English Brown Betty design using the original clay brews the best black tea due to both the shape that allows the leaf to swirl aound in the pot and to the heat holding quality of the clay. I currently brew in Chinese Yixing clay pots, Chinese porcelain gaiwans, ceramic cups, a Pulyviet French porcelain teapot and a Brown Betty. All of them brew tea well. It's a matter of matching the tea leaf and the number of people you are serving to the pot. No experience brewing in cast iron, but I don't think it's high heat holding capacity is altogether a positive, especially when it comes to delicate green and white teas.
The only experience I have with brewing in glass is drinking tea brewed in a Mono pot at The Cultured Cup. An extraordinarily fine brewing vessel, which goes to show that there is more to teapot design than the materials alone.
A one cup teapot is really not tiny. A 50 - 60 ml gaiwan or Yixing teapot is tiny. My various brewing vessels run from that size on up to 330 ml Yixing pots, to one to 6 cup English and European pots, to 10 ounce cup with infuser.
Do I need all those to make a cup of tea or two? Of course not. Did I feel like I got along just fine for many years with one teapot and a cup infuser? Absolutely! Do I make a significantly bettter cup of tea by matching the tea leaf to the brewing vessel? I very much hope so....
Brew, sip, discuss.
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Two samples left. Please PM me after reading the first post if you would like one.
Brew, sip, discuss.
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eG Society member Greg Glancy, who is the owner of Norbutea.com has contributed samples of tea for three tea tastings here on the eG Forum's Coffee & Tea Forum. This first tasting will feature a Chinese Oolong - a Fall Harvest 2008 Tie Guan Yin from Anxi county in Fujian province. Greg sent me five samples of this tea, which will go to the first five members who PM me and who 1) have been a member of the eG Society for at least 30 days, 2) have at least 10 substantive posts in the Coffee & Tea forum, and 3) agree to contribute to the discussion. Please PM me with a mailing address and I will send the samples out this week.
Here's some interesting information on this Tie Guan Yin from the Norbutea.com website (used with permission).
This is our first shipment of Fall Harvest 2008 Tie Guan Yin from Anxi county in Fujian province, which is the birthplace of Tie Guan Yin cultivation. This season's harvest has been excellent so far, and we are really excited to have this particular batch of this season's Tie Guan Yin to offer on Norbutea.com. This is our standard premium grade Tie Guan Yin, but in my opinion the aroma and flavor of this particular batch is head and shoulders above the other Tie Guan Yin teas in its class so far this year.Traditionally Tie Guan Yin was roasted to produce a toasted, dried fruit type flavor profile and amber cup, but recently the trend in Anxi has been to leave the teas unroasted in order to allow the strong floral notes come through more prominently. This Tie Guan Yin is not roasted beyond the time required to drive out the moisture in the leaves after processing. It produces smooth floral characteristics, a pleasant and lingering bittersweet aftertaste, and a honey green cup when steeped. It is best suited to Gong Fu style steeping, but is also delicious steeped in the western manner. In order to better preserve the striking freshness of this wonderful tea, we had this shipment individually packaged and vacuum sealed at the producer's facility into 50 and 100 gram portions.
The story behind the name 'Tie Guan Yin:'
Tie Guan Yin or 'Iron Goddess of Mercy' is named after the Bodhisatva Avalokiteshvara, who in the Chinese context is known as the Goddess of Compassion or Mercy. The name of this tea is associated with a legend: In Anxi County of modern Fujian province there was a rundown temple that housed an iron statue of Guan Yin, the Goddess of Mercy. Every day on the walk to his tea fields, a poor farmer would pass by and reflect on the worsening condition of the temple. He did not have the resources to repair the temple, so instead the farmer brought a broom and some incense from his home. He swept the temple clean and lit the incense as an offering to the deity. Over the months and years to come, the farmer would periodically return to take care of the temple and make offerings. One night, Guan Yin appeared to him in a dream. She told him of a cave behind the temple where a treasure awaited him. He was to take the treasure for himself on the condition that he shared it with other people in his impoverished village. In the cave, the farmer found a single tea plant. He planted it in his field and nurtured it into a large bush, from which the finest tea was produced. He gave cuttings of this rare plant to all his neighbors and began selling the tea under the name Tie Guan Yin, Iron Bodhisattva of Mercy.
(In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that I have known Greg for two or three years. I originally met him at a presentation he did for The Cultured Cup's T-Bar Club of his travels in the tea regions of China, including Tibet. I have no financial interest in Norbutea.com.)
There are three samples left. Please PM me if you would like one.
Brew, sip, discuss.
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Jingteashop.com carries several red (black) teas that I have not seen anywhere else. A few were in my last order, so I'll report on them as I work my way through.
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In addition to what general type of material and size of pot fits a particular tea need, my interest in the history of tea and the cultures that developed around it inform my selection of teapots. So, it's Chinese porcelain gaiwans and Yixing Zisha clay pots for Chinese Oolongs, Pu-erh, green and red teas; English Brown Bettys for Black teas from India and Ceylon; Japanese Tea Bowls for Matcha and next year I'll get a Japanese kyuusu for Sencha. I'm not rigid about that, just a preference. After all, I do brew frequently in mugs, too.
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What are you guys drinking today?
For me it's a Japanese Kukicha green tea. Full of tea twigs and stems and roasted, so an interesting contrast with sencha. I got this from TCC a couple of months ago and am sure it's 2008 Fall harvest. Brewed Western style.
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To clarify: the samples are 10 grams each, enough for two gongfu sessions, or about four Western style 6 - 8 ounce first infusions. I have tried this gongfu style, as I reported in the "What tea are you drinking today" topic last week. Either method will produce multiple infusions.
PM me after reading the original post if you want to join the tasting. Should be interesting.
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eG Society member Greg Glancy, who is the owner of Norbutea.com has contributed samples of tea for three tea tastings here on the eG Forum's Coffee & Tea Forum. This first tasting will feature a Chinese Oolong - a Fall Harvest 2008 Tie Guan Yin from Anxi county in Fujian province. Greg sent me five samples of this tea, which will go to the first five members who PM me and who 1) have been a member of the eG Society for at least 30 days, 2) have 5 or more substantive posts in the Coffee & Tea forum, and 3) agree to contribute to the discussion. Please PM me with a mailing address and I will send the samples out this week.
Here's some interesting information on this Tie Guan Yin from the Norbutea.com website (used with permission).
This is our first shipment of Fall Harvest 2008 Tie Guan Yin from Anxi county in Fujian province, which is the birthplace of Tie Guan Yin cultivation. This season's harvest has been excellent so far, and we are really excited to have this particular batch of this season's Tie Guan Yin to offer on Norbutea.com. This is our standard premium grade Tie Guan Yin, but in my opinion the aroma and flavor of this particular batch is head and shoulders above the other Tie Guan Yin teas in its class so far this year.Traditionally Tie Guan Yin was roasted to produce a toasted, dried fruit type flavor profile and amber cup, but recently the trend in Anxi has been to leave the teas unroasted in order to allow the strong floral notes come through more prominently. This Tie Guan Yin is not roasted beyond the time required to drive out the moisture in the leaves after processing. It produces smooth floral characteristics, a pleasant and lingering bittersweet aftertaste, and a honey green cup when steeped. It is best suited to Gong Fu style steeping, but is also delicious steeped in the western manner. In order to better preserve the striking freshness of this wonderful tea, we had this shipment individually packaged and vacuum sealed at the producer's facility into 50 and 100 gram portions.
The story behind the name 'Tie Guan Yin:'
Tie Guan Yin or 'Iron Goddess of Mercy' is named after the Bodhisatva Avalokiteshvara, who in the Chinese context is known as the Goddess of Compassion or Mercy. The name of this tea is associated with a legend: In Anxi County of modern Fujian province there was a rundown temple that housed an iron statue of Guan Yin, the Goddess of Mercy. Every day on the walk to his tea fields, a poor farmer would pass by and reflect on the worsening condition of the temple. He did not have the resources to repair the temple, so instead the farmer brought a broom and some incense from his home. He swept the temple clean and lit the incense as an offering to the deity. Over the months and years to come, the farmer would periodically return to take care of the temple and make offerings. One night, Guan Yin appeared to him in a dream. She told him of a cave behind the temple where a treasure awaited him. He was to take the treasure for himself on the condition that he shared it with other people in his impoverished village. In the cave, the farmer found a single tea plant. He planted it in his field and nurtured it into a large bush, from which the finest tea was produced. He gave cuttings of this rare plant to all his neighbors and began selling the tea under the name Tie Guan Yin, Iron Bodhisattva of Mercy.
(In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that I have known Greg for two or three years. I originally met him at a presentation he did for The Cultured Cup's T-Bar Club of his travels in the tea regions of China, including Tibet. I have no financial interest in Norbutea.com.)
[Edit: criteria changed to five or more substantive posts.]
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Richard,
I went to the Galleria location of Teavana this afternoon. I asked about teas for iced tea and the clerk brought down all manner of teas. They happily sold me two ounces of a peach apricot ginger flavored black tea. I paid $4.50 and was on my way. They also have an impressive (to me, at least) selection of tea pots, especially if you like the cast iron ones.
Teavana IS convenient to me even if it's inside a mall and a "hike" from the car since the mall itself is very close to home. Once I settle on a type or two I want to drink regularly, I could see my self buying it from there 4 -6 ounces at a time. (especially if I am buying tea to make iced tea, since I brew it double strength and pour on ice and drink a lot of it at a time)
I'm a *bit* surprised that there isn't at least one or two more specialty shops similar to CC where they sell tea in addition to coffee. I would think that a quality tea service in a casual "hip" urban setting might work someplace in Big D.
Teavana has a large selection of tea pots. The cast iron ones have become very popular in recent years, but are not that good for brewing tea, especially the Japanese green teas people most often think of when they think of the cast iron pots.
It's mostly a marketing triumph over practicality. These were, for at least a few hundred years, not made as tea pots but as water kettles. As I understand it, they figured out there might a larger market if they coated the interiors with enamel and sold them as tea pots. Great water kettles (uncoated) - and one is on my wish list - but not so much as a tea pot since they hold too much heat too long - a killer for green teas.
Teavana does carry some interesting tea cups and other teapots, though I was not particularly taken with their few Yixing pots.
As far as their tea goes, if you like it, that's what counts.
As far as there not being a number of tea shops like The Cultured Cup in the Dallas area, there aren't a lot in the country. There are a handful of great teashops in the US, and a handful of on-line quality tea purveyors, and TCC was one of the first to bring quality teas into the US many years ago. It's a major effort to source teas from around the world, develope creative ways to market locally, maintain a retail operation with quality service, and run a web retail operation on top of that.
Teavana is a very different operation, a chain that puts an emphasis on selling pots and accessories and has a comparatively small selection of teas. As I recall, about a dozen in the store vs 70 - 100 at The Cultured Cup and many other serious tea shops and on-line vendors. Not that there aren't a few vendors with a small stable of high quality offerings. (While Teavana does have a larger number of teas on-line, it appears that the vast majority of them are flavored teas.)
Fewer choices can be comforting to many people vs the complexity and multitude of fine teas potentially available. Kind of like a fast food place with six major menu items vs a restaurant with many more. It's another option for people.
I think of the teas at places like Teavana and CM as "gateway teas" -- the first teas that many people have had beyond grocery store tea bags. Many people stop there and are more than satisfied. Some go beyond to exploring the huge, wonderfully complex, delicious array of fine teas available from shops and vendors in the US and beyond. Very much like people and wine...except that tea is far, far, far less expensive to explore, with a very few excpetions, mostly in the world of aged Puer tea.
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Light blockage is important to, isn't it? I think if I didn't need to worry about that, I would be all set. And yes, I'll probably be drinking mostly the durable black teas. At least, that's what I'll drink regularly and buy more of at a time. When I want something different, I can get it in the small opaque zip top bags, then store them "as is" or in a more simple container just to keep them together.
Doesn't look like this needs to be too complicated. Thanks for the link to the small tins, though. From your pics above, it was hard for me to judge the scale/size of the tins.
Yes, light blockage is important, but I would not worry about it too much with your flavored black tea. just roll it down as tight as you can. You could put it in a cupboard or a closet if you feel the need, or put it in a large canning jar, but you'll probably use it up sooner rather than later. You'll beat the light to it.
You are right, it is hard to judge the size. I should have posed them with a nickle or some such for comparison. As i noted, they range from 2 - 6 ounce. Actually the largest one would hold about 8 ounces of your black tea. The smallest will hold 2 ounces of your black tea or about 1 1/2 ounce of larger full leafed teas such as many Oolongs (but it would hold 2 ounces of the Oolong you bought at TCC since it is tightly rolled).
It's just not much to worry about. If you do order some from Birdpick, they ship them from California pretty quickly.
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Thanks. I read through the above topic some and it seems that you keep some of your teas in the bags and just store the bags in containers. That can certainly work, though it's a little cumbersome to dig tea out the bag. I was thinking some short tin would be a lot easier. That's what led to my quest for a "proper" container.
Is it best NOT to store the tea just loose in some sort of tin or other container? I know there are variations based on tea types. I can't tell if the reason the tins are only OK because they let in too much air or not enough.
For the most part, we want tea containers to keep out the air. For pu-erh that's not as important and is a more complicated issue, as Mike Petro explains in some of his posts in this and other topics.
If it's a matter of the convenience of scooping out of a tin vs a bag, there are inexpensive options. The smallest of the double-lidded containers I show upthread should suffice. They are inexpensive: go to birdpick.com for inexpensive double-lidden tea containers. Even though these are designed to hold up to 100m mg thery should be fine. After all, you are mostly drinking very durable black teas. And as andiesenjie has pointed out, they survived the long sail voyages from China to England.
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I have a tea storage dilemma.
Not too long ago, the only tea I had in the pantry was a box of Luzianne tea bags I use to make iced tea. Then, last weekend, I bought a little tin of loose tea at the grocery store. This morning, I awoke to a pantry with 4 more teas in it. Now, there is yet another in there.
I have small amounts of 5 loose teas now. The four that I picked up yesterday are in opaque zip top bags. The one I picked up not long ago (Peach Apricot Ginger black tea) to make iced tea was sold to me in a simple paper back with a fold over top (like you get coffee beans in). When I was at the tea store (Teavana), I wanted some small tins. I had seen some at their website. They DID have small tin, but they had nice fancy designs and were $13 a piece. Sine I had four different teas to already at home, I didn't want to spend that much. They had larger tins for much less. But they were much to large (tall) to hold the one ounce samples I have.
So, I am not sure what to do. How long can I store my teas in the opaque zip top bags? What about the stuff in the paper bag? I understand that light tight is important no matter what. Air tight seems to be good too for most teas as well.
I need something. Small containers. Cheap, too. This is important if I am going to go through a phase where I have very small amounts of several teas.. Also, what can I do in the interim?
Your small one ounce samples of black teas will do fine in the opaque zip bags. They will do as well or better than the Teavana tins. Just keep any flavored teas separated from the regular teas. Tea leaves will absorb stong aromas relatively easily, so that goes for herbs and spices, too.
Once you get beyond the black teas, you may want another tin. Japanese and Chinese green teas are much more sensitive. If you are going to use them within 2 - 4 weeks, however, an opaque zip bag should be okay.
For now, I think you'll be fine, and for the time you really need something else -- or just want it -- there are many ideas about, and for, tea storage in this topic upthread.
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Tea
in Coffee & Tea
I, with South African childhood roots, best preferit with strong black tea with milk. People here look at me funny! I think most common is tea, no milk with nana leaves-peppermint?I am not familiar with "nana leaves-peppermint". What is that, Lior?
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I think you have found most of the tea sources in Dallas, Jeff. Do not know about Ft. Worth. There are no "Asian tea shops" as such. And 99.9999% of teas sold in Asian markets are not what you are looking for, though they do have a few ingredients you could use to make your own herbal teas.
I have been in Teavana two or three times, but have never bought any of their teas. I think, but am not sure, the minimum is 4 ounces and it is rare for me to buy more than one or two ounces of any tea. I did get one of their Japanese storage containers despite them costing a little more than less-expensive-just-as-good-or-better double-lidded Chinese tea cannisters you can get elsewhere. Just because of a design I liked, even though most Japanese green teas would probably do better in something else.
Asian (ie. Chinese and Japanese) teas are found at The Cultured Cup, Central Market and Teavana. Whole foods has a very small selection of bulk teas. The British Emporium in Grapevine has a variety of bagged and loose leaf British teas similar to, and including, the Twinnings you have tried.
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Today it's a red tea from China: Anhui Gift Grade Keemaun Gongfu from jingteashop.com. I am brewing it gongfu style: 5 g in a 120 ml gaiwan and have had 4 good infusions so far. A very nice Keemun.
Anyone else drinking tea today?
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OK.. It's a new day and it's the morning, so it's my chance to try some of the teas I bought yesterday.
First up is the French Breakfast tea.
1 tsp. into a mug. Boiling water. Steep for minutes. pour into another mug with my little infuser basket from my pot to strain. Nothing added.
This was pretty good. But not as bold as the supermarket English Breakfast tea I have. I think the most notable thing about this French Breakfast is that I picked up a sweet chocolate scent in it. That was nice. Overall, it seemed very "smooth"
Second up is a Ceylon Sultane.
1 tsp. into a mug. Boiling water. Steep for minutes. pour into another mug with my little infuser basket from my pot to strain. Nothing added.
Tastes like tea. I dunno how else to describe it. Nothing really remarkable about this, I don't think. I don't mean that in a bad way, rather it just tastes like the way I expect a tea to taste. But I can't really pick out anything that says "this is so much better than what I have had before"
But it's still early in the game. I suppose it could take some time and a lot of tastings to appreciate a real quality tea. Brewing one cup at a time using two cups is a bit cumbersome. I may need a better method, but I am not sure how often I'll really be drinking like this long term.
Jeff, we may be able to help with this if you can tell us exactly how many ou/ml of water you are using at what temp for how many minutes. All those factors make a significant difference. Also are you using a regular teaspoon or a measuring teaspoon? If you have a scale that will measure to a tenth of a gram that would help, but is not necessary.
I am using a measuring spoon. I just dip into the bag (I need some small tins or something to transfer the tea to) and measure out like I would any dried herb or spice.
I used one measured out teaspoon each time. I didn't measure the water when I made it. I simply filled the mug, thinking it was pretty much 1 cup ( 8 ounces) But just now, I went and measured what the mug held. About 9 ounces. So, I guess I did 1 teaspoon to 9 ounces. Probably not exactly an optimum ratio. I do have a scale, but it won't weigh in down to the gram, let alone a tenth.
I didn't temp the water (though I do have quick read thermometers). It was at a good rolling boil. The kettle was really whistling away when I took it off heat. I DID brew directly in a mug. So, there was no lid. I did pre-heat the mug.I do have something to add about the Ceylon Sultane. I enjoyed it more as it cooled slightly. I think when it was really really hot, I could only take tiny sips. But when I could drink larger amounts, I was able to get more of it onto my tongue. I know cold kills taste buds, but it seems really really hot does as well.
Yes, you are on to something important. Most teas will taste better if you let them cool a bit, and some change their flavor profile in interesting ways as the temp slowly comes down.
Here are some suggestions.
1) Using your measuring teaspoon is fine. The Cultured Cup website says to use 1 1/2 tsp per 6 - 8 ounces of water for the French Breakfast Tea, so you could try 2 1/2 tsp of leaf for your 9 ounces...or since you are experimenting, brew less and go for 1 1/2 tsp for 6 ounces.
2) I use my instant read thermometer for tea all the time. Try it at 212F and also at 208F and see if you prefer one over the other. If you have boiled water for one cup, get fresh water for the second, otherwise the tea is likley to taste flat.
3) The Cultured Cup website has a helpful chart on it explaining the different grades of black tea from India and Ceylon that may interest you. You will be able to interpret better the grading code for each of these two teas you have.
4) Not having a lid for the brewing cup, you coud simply place a small plate or saucer on top...anything to hold the heat.
5) Use your kitchen timer. Start with a first infusion of 3 minutes, second infusion of 4 minutes. See how you like it that way. If you think it needs longer, then start the first infusion at 4 or 5 minutes. Just experiment.
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OK.. It's a new day and it's the morning, so it's my chance to try some of the teas I bought yesterday.
First up is the French Breakfast tea.
1 tsp. into a mug. Boiling water. Steep for minutes. pour into another mug with my little infuser basket from my pot to strain. Nothing added.
This was pretty good. But not as bold as the supermarket English Breakfast tea I have. I think the most notable thing about this French Breakfast is that I picked up a sweet chocolate scent in it. That was nice. Overall, it seemed very "smooth"
Second up is a Ceylon Sultane.
1 tsp. into a mug. Boiling water. Steep for minutes. pour into another mug with my little infuser basket from my pot to strain. Nothing added.
Tastes like tea. I dunno how else to describe it. Nothing really remarkable about this, I don't think. I don't mean that in a bad way, rather it just tastes like the way I expect a tea to taste. But I can't really pick out anything that says "this is so much better than what I have had before"
But it's still early in the game. I suppose it could take some time and a lot of tastings to appreciate a real quality tea. Brewing one cup at a time using two cups is a bit cumbersome. I may need a better method, but I am not sure how often I'll really be drinking like this long term.
Jeff, we may be able to help with this if you can tell us exactly how many ou/ml of water you are using at what temp for how many minutes. All those factors make a significant difference. Also are you using a regular teaspoon or a measuring teaspoon? If you have a scale that will measure to a tenth of a gram that would help, but is not necessary.
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What have you been drinking today?
For me it's a 2004 Spring Wuyi Yen Cha Shui Xian that I ordered from Hou De for a good, inexpensive everyday tea. I think I may have gotten the last of it, because their site says "Sold Out", but they have a 2007 that's a little more expensive and I have not tried it. I have done it Western style a few days ago and didn't get it quite right. I'll have to try that again.
Today I brewed it gongfu style in a 120 ml gaiwan with 5 g leaf. 13 sec rinse, 30 sec est, then infusions - 1:20", 2:20", 3:30". More left to go. Of the three, I liked the second best and the third better than the first. May be better with a shorter first infusion of 10 sec.
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This afternoon it's a fresh Chinese Tie Guan Yin Oolong - Fall Harvest 2008, from Anxi County, Fujian - a free sample that Greg Glancy sent me to try. I am brewing it gongfu style in a gaiwan and am on the second of two 30 second infusions. It clearly has several more to go. Very clear yellow-green liquor. The first had a slight, very pleasant vegetal taste and aroma with a hint of sweetness. The second is less vegetal, thicker mouthfeel, buttery, lingering aftertaste. Wonderful!
I was able to continue brewing this the next day after leaving it on the counter overnight and have had a total of 9 infusions. It still has a few more to go, but I am going to stop at this point. I need to try it Western style and see how it does.
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Why is roasting more challenging in cooler weather, if you don't mind me asking?
I roast outside and it is impossible to get the roaster hot enough in cold weather. Once it gets into the mid-upper 60s, it works well. T least that has been my experience so far.
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This week it's been a Brazilian from Sweet Maria's. Good stuff.
Now that the weather is cooling off, roasting is going to be more of a challenge and I'll have to buy more locally roasted beans.
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Grapevine - Friends suggest Cafe Italia on NW Hwy for a very pleasant cut-above red sauce place with BYOB. I have not been there, but have eaten with them at a little more casual place with BYOB, Amore - also on NW Hwy, near Park. Cheap and good.
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Anyone have experience with other web retailers or shops that have a particularly good selection of black teas from India and Ceylon or red teas from China?
Budget Burr Grinders
in Coffee & Tea
Posted
I don't know of a worthwhile burr grinder in the $50 range, but it may not be important anyway. If you are brewing in a drip coffee maker, you are about as well off using your blade grinder. If you are using a French Press, then a good quality burr grinder makes sense.
Anyone else know of a good burr grinder at that price point?