Richard Kilgore
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Posts posted by Richard Kilgore
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Jeff - TCC carries the Beehive brand that Baroness recommends uptopic, so you may want to check those out. The staff at TCC is really helpful, so just let them know what features and price range you are looking for. If those options turn out to be more than you want to spend now, don't forget the pots at CM that run about $15 - 20 with infuser. They will be similar to the Adagio pot and about the sme price by the time you get the shipping added on.
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What are you guys drinking today?
For me it's another Chinese red tea. It is called "Anhui Gift Grade Keemun Gongfu" from jingteashop.com. The site says it is what is served at important official meetings and to special guests. A very nice Keemun. I am not sure if the 'gongfu" in the name means that it is typically served gongfu style. I'll have to check that out.
That tea was followed by a cooked Puerh - a 2007 Haiwan Lao Cha Tou Brick brewed gongfu style. It went about 10 steepings and was still going strong when I stopped. I enjoyed this one a good deal.
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My office has a thermal pot that boils the water and then holds it at that temperature. I can't help thinking the water must get stale, staying like that all day. Is this a rational fear?
These devices are great! Is it a Zori? The ones I have seen come in 3, 4 and 5 qt. and you can set them to hold the temp at 175, 195 or 205 F - for green tea, Oolong and black tea respectively. I have had tea many times made from these and I have not found any problem with the tea tasting stale. One of these is on my wish list.
You do need to purge a small amount of water when you draw from it, because the water between the tank and the spout will not, of course be held at temp.
Anyone else have experience with these water heaters?
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thanks Richard. I'll try to pick up a tea pot of some sort this weekend. And hopefully, I can make it down to Cultured Cup, too, to get some tea. is that where you get all of your tea? How well does Central Market do when it comes to tea?
I have gotten many, many teas from TCC over the years and still do. I also get my teas from several other sources in the US and directly from Asia.
CM has lots of teas, bags and several brands of loose leaf. I think of the loose leaf ones as "doorway teas" - teas that introduce many people to the world beyond Lipton tea bags. I have tried a few of the better loose leaf teas from CM and found them to be so, so. They tend to be over-priced for what they are. Many people drink them, of course, but you can do better for the same amount of money. (I am talking about real tea, rather than herbal blends, which I have had little experience with there. But others here drink those brands, like them and have discussed them in this forum on a few topics.)
You also may find several other topics here in the Coffee and Tea forum helpful:
What tea are you drinking today?
Unflavored Black Teas - India, China, Ceylon....
Oolong Teas - Favorite teas and vendors? The complex world between greens and blacks.
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ummm... iced tea?
really, that's pretty much the only tea I ever drink, save for a very, very rare cup of Lipton.
I suppose that my answer here should be "black tea"?? I dunno. Sampling is always good.
Here's my best suggestions for a start. Go over to The Cultured Cup. They carry a bazillion teas and they will help you pick out one or two or more to get you started. You can see and smell the loose teas and get some sense of what you may like. Tell them you are new to tea and want to consider inexpensive Black, Oolong and green teas. You may also want to ask for a rec for making iced tea (which is usually based on a black tea). They will sell you as little as an ounce in the shop (though on their website the least is 2 ounces for most teas).
If you go, let us know what you get and we may be able to provide some additional ideas for brewing them well.
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If I were to serve tea to guest(s), I could brew a full pot without an infuser and pour it all out to all guest(s) in one serving.
You can, and many people do. But there is something to be aware of here. Tea is likely to be at different concentrations in different parts of a brewing pot. That's why a brewing pot and a serving pot - each person gets the same concentration.
Now that I have the equipment to make the tea, I have to figure out what tea to get!
What types of tea have you enjoyed in the past?
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BYO restaurants may be perfect for these times. My favorite continues to be Thai-riffic for Thai food, but I know there are many out there all over the DFW metroplex.
Asian, Italian, whatever...what are your favorites?
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Those were such wonderful sausages! I doubt it was a license issue, after all they do have a butcher shop and I am sure they breakdown pigs like most the Asian markets do. It may be they did not sell enough to make it worth doing. Whatever the reason, it's really too bad.
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Doing a central blend :Columbian Supremo ,Brazil and Costa Rican
Is this your own green bean blend or one from a coffee vendor?
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Anyone have any additional suggestions for an espresso machine for about $800?
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What are you guys drinking today?
For me it's another Chinese red tea. It is called "Anhui Gift Grade Keemun Gongfu" from jingteashop.com. The site says it is what is served at important official meetings and to special guests. A very nice Keemun. I am not sure if the 'gongfu" in the name means that it is typically served gongfu style. I'll have to check that out.
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Ah.. OK.. I see what you are saying. The over brewing of the subsequent cups. As mentioned before, I don't really want to transfer to a second pot. So, my plan wouldn't be a good idea. I guess I got the impression that brewing without any sort of infuser or whatever was vastly superior.
So, maybe an infuser IS the best way to go for me. I can simply lift it out (I assume they all lift out?) and place it on a towel or saucer or whatever for a second infusion later on. Does that have to happen within a certain period of time?
Yes, you got it right - brewing without an infuser is superior - for aroma and flavor. But using an infuser may serve your needs for now. And if you want to make a comparison, you can always brew in the pot without using the infuser.
You can re-brew sooner, but I often let an hour or more go by. If it has been sitting for a long while, just give the leaves a quick rinse in hot water - pour the hot water through the infuser into the sink for 2 - 3 secs, or pour into the pot just enough hot water to cover the leaves and dump the water fast - then re-brew.
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I did think about the heat loss from a quart measuring cup. The idea of brewing one cup at a time was not too appealing because I would probably want more than one cup. I think it would be more convenient to brew what I would drink once, then just pour.
I am not sure I am visualizing what you mean, but I think these are the main issues:
You could brew once and then pour, if you pour into another pre-heated serving teapot which you keep warm with a tea cozy (or do like I do and wrap it in a dish towel).
If you brew and pour one cup, let the pot sit and pour another cup later,
1) the pot and tea cool off, and
2) the tea leaves overbrew from sitting in the tea water.
However, if you are brewing good tea leaves, you will always be able to get a second infusion and usually be able to get at least three infusions from one set of tea leaves. So you can brew in a cup (or a pot) and get multiple cups of tea. If you only do one infusion, you are wasting a lot of great tea. And often the second infusion is better than the first.
So, it sounds like a small-ish pot with a built in strainer (as a opposed to one with a infuser basket) would be ideal. Now, I just need to find one I like.Any suggestion on local places to get something like this, Richard? I poked around the Cultured Cup website, but what they had seemed pricey. I've seen those Teavana places in the local malls, too.
For inexpensive 2 cup ceramic tea pots check out Central Market, World Market stores and Pier One stores. The Cultured Cup has much more in the store than shows on the web site. While they have some very nice, more expensive tea-things, they also have many that are lower-priced. I remember seeing tea pots as low as $25, but there may be some even less expensive. Go by and take a look or call them and ask what they have in your price range. Most web tea dealers also offer teapots, but I like to see them in person whenever possible.
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what about equipment if I want to brew loose tea? For now, lets assume "western" tea. Is it OK to brew it in my 1 qt. Pyrex measuring cup and pour it through a small strainer into a coffee cup when no one else is looking?
Sounds like in this case you are brewing just for yourself. In that case a quart measuring cup would be too big and would lose heat too rapidly due to having a wide mouth with no lid. So for cheap and furtive western style brewing, my suggestion would be to brew in one cup (place a small saucer or some such on top for a lid) and strain into your drinking cup. You can pre-heat both with hot water.
The next inexpensive step up, and easier though not necessarily better, is using an infuser in a cup, which we discussed in a topic on Tea bags vs loose leaf tea and tea filters.
What about something more "proper"? A pot with a built in strainer? Use a tea ball? I would prefer to brew and serve from the same pot/container and not transfer from a brewing vessel to a serving one. Looking for something pretty simple. And not too expensive.
Tea balls restrict tea leaves from unfolding and from fully infusing, which means less aroma and less flavor. So too, to a leeser degree, pots with most built in infusers, compared to simply letting the leaves unfold and infuse in the pot. Many pots have built in filters at the point where the spout joins the body - that's a better option. If a pot has an open spout with no filter, you can always pour though a strainer.
You can find basic 2 cup ceramic pots on the web and in many grocery stores for about $15 - $20.
Does that answer your question? If not, ask away.
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What's everyone drinking today?
I started out with my first cup ever of PG Tips and don't understand why people like it so much. It appears to be leaves broken into tiny bits, which = bitter. Maybe "strong" is a euphemism for bitter.
What is it about PG Tips that keeps you PG Tips drinkers coming back for more? How do you brew it; maybe I'm not brewing it well.
OK, I brewed it too stong the first time. I did it again using less leaf and cooler temp and see what it is now. I think it's equivalent to Lipton's and other CTC grocery store teas. The kind of thing a bazillion people drink every day, even though they could easily do much better for about the same cost or not much more.
Oh, today it was a Red Tea from China - a Keemun Mao Feng. I like it.
What tea are you all drinking today?
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There is the original Brown Betty and then apparently a number of other shops in the same area of England (Staffordshire) make or made similar pots that are also referred to as Brown Bettys. Anyone know what the others are and how similar - dis-similar they are from the original? Do some brew better than others?
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It may seem odd and go against all the rules, however some of the spiced tea blends taste better to me after they have "aged" a bit.
Perhaps because my taste buds are super-sensitive, I get a lot of harsh tones in the newly acquired spiced teas but these mellow after they have been stored for a few months, sometimes a year or so. Friends often gift me with "holiday" blends from some companies and I will try them immediately but some are put aside and tried again months later when I find they are much more pleasant and no one spice is overpowering the others or the tea.
The same is found in some floral blends - the lychee flower teas in particular. I purchased one that was simply too "perfume-y" on first brewing but after about six months it was just lovely.
That's a great tip, Andie. It is kind of counter-intuitive, isn't it. I think I'll try that this year with holiday spiced teas. That is, buy it this year, drink it next year. Do you think it would last 12 months? Or would it fade by then?
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What machines in your price range does SLT carry?
Richard,
Thanks for asking! Screening out the capsule / super-automatic machines (which are not what I'm looking for), we are left with a few machines by Gaggia, FrancisFrancis, and Breville:
Gaggia - Espresso Dose, Baby Twin, Classic Espresso, Baby Class, New Baby
FrancisFrancis - X1 Ground
Breville - Espresso Machine (?), Cafe Roma Espresso Maker
Out of that selection, I am most intrigued by the Gaggia Espresso Dose machine - because of its claim that "The Dosage button allows the machine to memorize the preferred amount of coffee that goes for 1 or 2 cups of espresso." I've also always (since I can remember!) loved the LOOK of the FrancisFrancis machines - but again, I'm looking for the ability to create a short Italian-style espresso rather than a more voluminous American shot (apologies as I'm SURE I lack the vocabulary to properly express this!).
I really appreciate your advice - even if it is that you don't think ANY of these will do what I want and I should save up for something entirely different further down the line!
Thanks!
Linnea
While pleased to drink espresso, I am not an espresso machine owner or operator, so someone else can answer your question much better than I can. In the meantime, take a look at post #108 in this topic. Is that the Breville you are looking at? If so there is a comment on it.
I do think you can do better than the Francis Francis in your price range. You may want to do a search in this topic and in the whole Coffee and Tea forum on "Silvia", one of the best machines in that ranige.
Someone else please help her out.
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I've already paraded my baking dumbness over in the Baking 101 topic, and as I try to learn a bit about tea I'm going to do the same. I mean, really, just a few weeks ago I learned that most tea was fermented. Who knew?!?
So let's use this topic to ask really stupid questions about tea. My first comes from reading this post by Richard Kilgore:
You're doing this in a cup with an infuser, right? My suggestion would be to first try it off-boil (about 195 F) with 2.5 g (about a teaspoon, I'll have to verify that later) per six ounces for 3 minutes. Then 4 minutes for a second steep, and 5 for a third. But use this as a starting point and experiment with the leaf:water ratio (in the direction of more leaf) and the steep time (1.5, 2, 3; 3, 3.5, 4) and see how it changes and how you like it best. (If you can do it in your office, try doing a quick (5 - 10 sec) rinse of the leaves before the first infusion and see what that does.)After reading this, I felt like an American listing to a UK sports report on cricket.
So here are a few introductory questions:
1. I see that most teas have recommended steeping temperatures, with some being "boiling water." Of course, by the time water hits the leaves, it's likely to be below 212F/100C immediately if not before. So when do I take the temperature of the water? Or is it a feel thing?
2. What's up with these second and third steepings? Are these for another cup later in the day, using the reserved leaves? And you increase the steeping time with the older leaves for pretty obvious reasons, yes?
3. Why rinse the leaves? I read that it's to reduce caffeine, which I don't need to do. Is it also to rinse off oxidation? Why would that be a good thing? Is it comparable to cheese rinds?
Great questions, Chris!
1. You're right - the water will cool a little when it hits the brewing pot or cup. That's why it's helpful to pre-heat it, and the cup(s) you are drinking out of as well. If possible. I don't always do it if I am in a hurry, but I do it 85 - 90 % of the time. And yes, measure the water temp in whatever you are heating the water in. (Also remember that the recommended brewing temps that come with a tea or that are recommended on a tea purveyors website are frequently wrong...or at least not optimal.
2. Absolutely. If you are brewing Western style you can make another pot steeping the same leaves immediately or later in the day. Usually you may get three or four steepings out of them. (But gongfu style you may get anywhere from 7 or 8 to 20 steepings.)
Yes. Because you have steeped some of the aroma and flavor out of them on each steeping. You can play with increasing the steeping time or with reducing the amount of water. Or both.
3. I am not sure that it reduces the caffeine significantly. It is primarily to wash away any tea dust and debris left from the manufacturing process. It often also softens any astringency the leaves may have, making for a smoother cup. I think it's also a good idea to do a rinse if you have allowed wet leaves to remain in the pot for more than 30 minutes or an hour. To discourage any bacteria and help with the astringency again.
Someone else may have a different take on all this. Pick any tea issue and there are usually 5 - 10,000 opinions.
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Today I decided to start with what I refer to as "Asian Grocery Store Gold." It is a decent Taiwanese Dong Ding Oolong that cost me a whopping $6.99 for 100 grams vacuum sealed in a metal tin. The company who packages the tea is "Good Young Co., Ltd." out of Taipei, and is marketed as the Tradition Oolong Tea Series. The English description on the can promised a "leisurely and carefree mood at any time." I couldn't resist such marketing, so I bought it and feel like I finally got my money's worth out of a grocery store bought tea. I'd post a picture, but I haven't figured that out on here yet...
It is a typical Taiwanese ball-shaped oolong with little to no roasting. I steeped it gongfu style in a Gaiwan, and got three decent steepings out of it. Moderately sweet, tastes a little flat or not super fresh, but it does have that Taiwanese Oolong flavor that I love. Not bad for $6.99.
Has anyone else found good values like this in their local markets?
Greg emailed me the name of the market where he found this Ding Dong Oolong. It took me a while to find it -- three aisles of various teas and herbal/medicinal teas and it was tucked back in a hard to reach corner -- but persistance paid off. Now marked $7.99, and still a bargain. I also found one lonely tin of another tea that looked promising, but have not brewed it yet.
Greg is right. This tea is worth looking for.
I found this exact tea at the Asian World Market in Plano TX last week. The tea is in a yellow tin with flower decorations, for those looking for it. I'm just starting to learn about quality tea and my palate is still developing, so take this advice with that in mind. However, I have to say I really, really like this tea. I'm also doing a single, basic steep (4-5 min in boiling water with no initial rinse) at my office, and I wonder if a more thoughtful steeping approach would bring out even more from it.
If you like this tea Chris, you're really going to like the very good and great ones.
You're doing this in a cup with an infuser, right? My suggestion would be to first try it off-boil (about 195 F) with 2.5 g (about a teaspoon, I'll have to verify that later) per six ounces for 3 minutes. Then 4 minutes for a second steep, and 5 for a third. But use this as a starting point and experiment with the leaf:water ratio (in the direction of more leaf) and the steep time (1.5, 2, 3; 3, 3.5, 4) and see how it changes and how you like it best. (If you can do it in your office, try doing a quick (5 - 10 sec) rinse of the leaves before the first infusion and see what that does.)
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What machines in your price range does SLT carry?
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Where do you get your stevia? I can only find powder and extracts, which I honestly think taste too much like their artificial counterparts (terrible). I haven't spent any time looking, but have been wanting to find a source for fresh or dried stevia to play with...
Your mix sounds really good. Does the basil not make the brew bitter?
At a herb class this summer I had and then started making at home a mix of lemon balm, mint, lemon basil and stevia. Very nice.Stevia is easy to grow, though it won't take the cold winter here in the PNW.
San Francisco Herb Co carries dried leaves. they have excellent quality herbs.
Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.
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Late note: Yesterday it was a Gan De Tie Guan Yin from jingteashop.com. This is in the light style that is now more popular than the traditional roasted style. Brewed gongfu style, it was seriously vegetal on the first infusion and then several interesting layers of vegetal sweetness unfolded before I gave out. I think I did about 7 infusions - wasn't tracking this as closely as usual - and think it could have gone several more. (I must have gotten some of the last of this, because it no longer shows on their site.)
Today I brewed gongfu style a 2007 Menghai Tea Factory "Silver Dayi" Raw Pu-erh from norbutea.com. This is a pleasant cup with a little bite to it on the first infusions, so perhaps it will age well.
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That flower tea is just beautiful! I followed the link to the website and learned tat the leaves are hand-stitched together. Amazing.
I've been drinking a green tea that was given to me by a friend who brought it from China. She is from Beijing, and I told her I would defer to her expertise in regard to what I might like. I'm not enough of an expert to know what I should buy.
The English on the tin reads, Alpine Organic Baihao Tea, Green Tea. It is just lovely, and per her directions, I have been brewing three cups from each little spoon of leaves, and thus far, the second is my favorite. A bit of honey sweetness comes out in the second brew. It is a complete mystery how this happens when the leaves stay in the cup the entire time. I guess that some flavors must come out and mask others that linger.
Lucky you! This is a famous Oolong tea also known as "Oriental Beauty". It's at the greener end of the Oolong spectrum.
Tea Storage - what works, what doesn't?
in Coffee & Tea
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What do you use to vacuum seal teas, Andie?