Richard Kilgore

The recent pu-erh tasting and discussion has inspired me to try more of the pu samples I ordered last year. This one was from Scott at Yunnan Sourcing, but I don't see it in his eBay store today. 1998 Lin Cong CNNP Green Wrapper Sheng (Raw) Pu-erh I brewed 6.3 g in a 110 ml Yixing pot. Rinse1: 5, rinse2: 20, rest: 60, 1: 5. 2: 15, 3: 30, (rest 2 hr), 4: 60, 5: 90, more to go. The first infusion had a medium-thin amber hue. Slight astringency and a hint of mineral. On the second infusion, the hue was a bit darker, taste more astringent with fruity aspect. The third was smoother and had a slight buttery quality. By the fifth infusion a sweetness emerged. Typical sheng "green" quality throughout. I think one short initial rinse would have been okay. Interesting session. I'll have to do more pu-erh samples this week.

Today I am exploring a barely aged sheng pu-erh, a 1998 LingCong CNNP Green Wrapper sample I got from Yunnan Sourcing last year. What's in your cup today?

Interesting. What leaf:water ratio do you use? Do you pour multiple infusions?

Thanks, Hiroyuki. Can you say more about how you like to brew the tea?

Today I started with a shu pu-erh that I have not tried since last year, discussion here. Next I have been enjoying the Dian Hong Imperiale we used for the recent tea tasting and discussion here in the forum. But this time in a Yixing pot, brewed modified gongfu style. So what teas have you all been drinking?

Today I am re-visiting a shu pu-erh tuo I got last year, didn't much care for and put away. This has been a confirmation for me of at least a couple of things about pu. I bought this shu as a tong of five 100 gram tuos, broke up one densely compressed tuo and stored it in a tea cannister for the past six to eight months. Brewing the shu gongfu style today I found even the first infusion to be pleasant with no off-aromas or tastes. Dark bown-black hue, rich mouthfeel, pleasant slight earthiness, a very slight sweetness and a lingering after taste. This in contrast to my less-than-pleasant experience when trying it immediately upon receiving it from China. So why the difference? The obvious reason is that shu almost always benefits from aging six months to two years from the time of production, and as I recall this was an early 2008. Second, a good chance my gongfu brewing skill has gradually improved over the same period of time. And third is something that Greg Glancy mentioned to me a few weeks ago when he brewed a 1990's shu that tasted much, much better than when I brewed it last year: pu-erh benefits from resting for a couple of weeks after you get it before trying to brew it. Greg suggested that it may be due to acclimatizing to its new environment. This is not a great shu and probably never will be, but it's a good shu and would make a decent one to drink more frequently. And it was inexpensive, something like $9 USD for the 500 gram tong, plus shipping. I'll look forward to seeing how it does over the next two or three years.

Yesterday I enjoyed a Phoenix Mountain Oolong two ways: brewed it western-style in a Yixing pot and then gong fu style in a gaiwan. Liked both. No tea yet today, but thinking about a pu-erh. So what's in your tea cup today?

Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry for kukicha. PM me for one of the free samples. As I have mentioned in other topics, I have known Kyle Stewart for some time now, having bought tea from his shop for many years, at least 10 years I believe it is. And for the past three years or so Kyle has been instrumental to my tea education through the T-Bar Club at The Cultured Cup. I have had many pleasant times with Kyle and his staff, trading teas and sharing new tea discoveries. More than just a tea merchant I happen to buy tea from, Kyle is a culinary friend as well as a tea friend - the wonderful tea pairings at Sharon Hage's York Street restaurant and a shared interest in Thai food with dinner at Thai-riffic. Kyle attended the World Tea Expo in Las Vegas recently and completed his three years of training with the Speciality Tea Institute to become the first certified tea specialist in Texas. ←

Thanks, jpr54_. I have been looking for the fish tasting and aroma cup set.

Glad you were able to get around to brewing this Menghai Shu, Chris. While most pu-erh, Oolong, and some red/black and green Chinese teas show themselves best with gongfu style brewing, I think it is fair to say that this pu-erh is not particularly complex, even though it is from a solid traditional cake recipe made by an established producer. There are at least two reasons for this. First, this is a cooked pu-erh. Second, this is a relatively young cooked pu-erh. Many people would not find the best and most expensive pu (think five and six figures), even with someone else picking up the tea tab, to be their cup of tea, So I am not surprised that you or anyone may prefer something else. (Oolongs are currently my favorite category of tea, but then I have much more experience with them.) That said, we have seen here that many factors may effect the result in your cup and your experience, even brewing western style: brewing vessel material, water temp, leaf to water ratio, water temp, length of infusion and rinse vs no rinse. And multiple brewings of pu-erhs in general and a specific one in particular often show improvement. At least it does for me. Not to mention the effect of ambient temperature, humidity, phase of the moon and how you hold your mouth while pouring...just kidding, but only partly. There are some mysteries here. Glass is the least ideal brewing vessel for pu, since high heat is essential, so you are starting at a disadvantage. If you try another brew, you might consider bringing the water to a full, rolling boil and wrapping the pot in a dish towel to help retain the heat. You could also do a rinse, and try bottled (but not distilled) water, if you are not using filtered water. Consider resting the leaves for 60 seconds after the rinse and brewing for three minutes for a first infusion and five seconds for a second. Let us know what happens. ****************** Since this tasting and discussion has been winding down, I have started a new topic for a tasting of an interesting Japanese green tea. Check it out everyone.

Sometimes it's the cook. I mean only two arms - who thought that was a great idea? And prehensile hands, but not feet - what were they trying to do, design cost out of it?

Glad to help. Yes he is. The only drawback is the long wait for them to get here, unless you pay through the nose for faster EMS shipping which takes a speedy week or two. My orders out of China by SAL take three to four weeks, though it can go five or six. I'm willing to be patient and save. If you're in a really big hurry and expense is not that important, email Guang at Hou de and ask, even though they do not show it on their site. I have had the impression his are better quality porcelain and more expensive, but he is in the US and usually ships Priority Mail for free.

I think it depends on what category of tea you are drinking as an everyday tea. You're spot-on for black teas. Some red teas and drinkable two or more year old pu-erhs may make that price range, more if you stretch it to $50/lb. Many new, not ready to drink pu-erhs would make it and then you could store them for the future, much like a wine that would improve with age, but cost you more later to buy from a merchant who did the aging. Oolongs in general are pricier, probably $40 to $ $60/lb for an everyday Oolong. Not that you can't find an Oolong for less; you simply may not enjoy it very much, and what's the point of an everyday tea if you have to "tolerate" it? Everyday Japanese and Chinese green teas are also generally going to be a little pricier than everyday black teas.

I am pleased that you two had an interesting experience with this Pu. When Greg and I were selecting the teas for this series of tasting discussions, we considered one shu that was easier to brew, but chose this traditional Mehghai shu beng because the other one is truly disgusting to look at...very tasty, but disgusting looking, and we were afraid some people could not get past that. Only if I get real brave will I share a little of that with someone here. But even the alternate shu was not nasty smelling, gfron1. I agree with your PM tipster. It sounds like the fishy, nasty aromas may have been due to long-term storage in a way too humid environment, referred to as "wet storage". If it's not too far over the edge you may be able to get something good out of that if you do two or three gongfu infusions to dump before pouring an infusion to drink. I am not sure if you could rescue it western style by pouring off the first infusion or two, but it's worth trying.

← Ha! on me! I just noticed that I reported on this tea previously up-topic. Too many teas to keep track of.

Good question. I have started a discussion of re-roasting here, Chris.

It's not that unusual for a tea to go stale if it is old. My understanding is that you probably need to re-roast many teas if you keep them more than a year. Teas that are purposefully aged are re-roasted annually. Interestingly this came up with an aged tgy that I got from Greg at Norbutea.com a few months ago. I contacted Greg and told him the vacuum sealed package I got was off when I opened it and asked if this was a general problem or if I just happened to get the bottom of the bulk dregs. He was really surprised because he had opened a couple of packages when he received the shipment and it was fine. But he opened a couple more and they were off, too. So he emptied all the vacuum packs, re-roasted all of it, gave me a replacement and offered to re-roast my first batch. Greg has a cool little tea roaster made of bamboo. You can get these from several tea merchants - Hou de and Yunnan Sourcing both carry them I believe. Less than $100. It looks similar to a stack of those bamboo steamers, and has a low-power heating element in the bottom. You can re-roast in the oven also if you are careful. So I may try the oven. Trickier than the bamboo roaster and makes me a little nervous. Has anyone else re-roasted in the oven? What temp and time did you use? Did you put it on a half-sheet covered with aluminum foil or something else? Leave it on the sheet to cool or dump it?

First brewed a 2005 Shui Xian Oolong from Hou de in a tiny gaiwan to see if the not-quite-right flavor I was getting brewing it in a Yixing was the pot or the tea. The tea. A bit off on this aging tea. Dusty, musty. Not too surprising. I have had it a while and I have enough of it to make it worthwhile to try re-roasting it. I'll post about that when I get around to doing the re-roast. Next an unusual white tea from a sample Greg sent me with an order from Norbutea.com. The package is hand labeled as Norbu White Buds. I am not sure if this is still available, but it is delicious brewed gongfu style. I'll try to find out more and post later. Edited to add: Discussion of re-roasting here. Edited to add: Okay, found it. 2007 Norbu White Bud, kinda-sorta white tea/kinda-sorta sheng pu-erh. So what have you all been drinking today?

Here's a link to the competition style brewing set at Yunnan Sourcing. I plan get at least three of them next time I order. In order to evaluate several similar teas. How do you plan to use them? Anyone else use these or similar brewing sets?

Independent, of course. Assessment, not so much. Flippant, cutesy, dissmissive, yes.

I don't see how that excerpt refutes the fact that both Pyles and Fearing both were doing southwest cuisine a few years before Mark Miller, both brought national attention to southwest cuisine before Mark Miller came into view, and both have endured and may be now better than ever. Because the writer prefers New Mexican and says so in a flipant-cute-dismissive style?

Yes, these are specialized tasting cups rather than regular brewing cups. Try Yunnan Sourcing on eBay. Scott usually carries them. In the US, Guang at Hou de also usually has them. If you don't find it on their sites, email them. It's a standard item for both of them.

Here's an article from Nation's Restaurant News when Routh Street Cafe closed January 6, 1993.

If you want to say Texas cuisine ok, but Mark Miller did all that with Southwestern cuisine well before either Pyles or Fearing. Miller's Coyote Cafe, though now a shade of its former self, absolutely belongs on that list. I'm not sure either Pyle or Fearing do (I have had all three). ← Stephan Pyles opened Routh street 1986 or before, can't tack that down. Dean Fearing became Executive Chef at The Mansion in 1985. Mark Miller opened Coyote Cafe in 1987. ← That may be, but what kind of food were they doing then? Miller was doing his thing from the get go and was the one who brought attention to modern southwestern cooking. That was the era when every thing Santa Fe was hot the so-called "Santa Fe Style" in everything from food to decor. Certainly there is not room for all three on this list. ← Fearing was doing southwest cuisine even before he became exec chef at The Mansion in 1985. Pyles was doing it when I ate at Routh Street in 1986. I just can't recall when he opened it.

Stephan Pyles opened Routh street 1986 or before, can't tack that down. Dean Fearing became Executive Chef at The Mansion in 1985. Mark Miller opened Coyote Cafe in 1987.