Steve Plotnicki

You know not to change the subject, but I should introduce you to Tony Fletcher who wrote the Keith Moon biography. He posts on a few of the wine boards.

A great restaurant might have cepes everyday, but not great cepes everyday. But they will certainly steer their most discerning customers to the great cepes on the days that they have them.

Isn't this a distinction without a difference? If you are willing to say that it was fire, isn't it really how people learned how to use and control fire that is at the heart of civilization and doesn't that gibe with his theory?

I feel like a broken record saying this about places like Blue Hill. Their style of cooking is to coax flavor out of the ingredients with as little intervention in the cooking process as possible. So your experience is totally dependant on the ingredients you get being extraordinary. Not every ingredient on their menu is going to be extraordinary the day you are there. That's why it's important to communicate to them that you are interested in eating the way they prepare food for Bux, Cabby or myself. (not that we are the only three people that get that treatment mind you.) But when Bux says that when he goes the waiter says that "Dan and Mike would like to cook for you," if you say okay, you are assured they are preparing a meal with the best and freshest ingredients. I find the exact same thing is true at Craft. When I order off the menu my meal is nowhere as good as when I let Marco or his chef choose my meal. In fact when I was at Craft last week, one of the side dishes they brought us was Cepes ala Cartoccio, baked in parchment. They were absolutely phenomenol. But had I not put myself in their hands, how would I have known that the cepes were good quality that day?

The best latkes in the city are the white truffle latkes at Campagna. At least they used to be the last time I had them about 3 years ago. At home, since I am wheat intolerant, they usually make two batches. One with and one without. The with are standard latkes and applesauce or sour cream are the preferred toppings. The without are pretty much grated potato, onion and egg and then fried. Creme fraiche and smoked salmon or caviar are by far the preferred toppings for that version. But we didn't make them this year because H-Day was too close to T-Day and it's just too much food.

Then it couldn't possibly be artisanal. You would need unusual varieties of organically grown oranges that were hand squeezed. I'm afraid you have just plain old phlegm.

Commercially produced orange juice or did they squeeze it by hand?

Taking that money from the company shouldn't be taxed because it is a capital gain. And if it is, you should be able to avoid a double tax by making a dividend of the building to the shareholder before the sale. Same with the wine. Then when you pay tax on the appreciated assets when it gets transferred out, your basis is at the stepped up amount so the sale won't cause any new tax. That should be correct I believe.

Well while I have no way of knowing exactly what the French would do (especially being a Jew,) I do I know they are more interested in culture (and money) then in rules. And as opposed to this being like an AOC designation where there are set borders, there is no perfect definition of how to do something in the manner of an artisan. And that is why I compared it to the way the French use terroir. I am certain that if an artisan mechanized part of his production process to the extent that it might jeopardise his designation, rather then lifting it based on a written report of the circumstances, if the producer had standing in the community, i.e., made a quality product that brought the French fame and fortune, they would send in an army of bureaucrats to make a determination. Because I am convinced that any country that can use the phrase "terroir," which is pretty much like saying "the voodoo of the location," can certainly use artisanal to express the attributes, not the production methods of a product. It's funny that this discussion has come down to one set of people arguing that the use of the word has to be a function of a strict definition based on how the product was made, with the opposing argument saying only the spirit of that process need apply. It's as if the former do not trust people to impose a reasonable interpertation of the word when it is called for. But at the same time, there isn't a single person among that group who would lift Poilane's artisanal designation based on a review of his production method because of the way the bread tastes. And even Britcook admitted that it was artisanal and didn't ask for a thorough description of his process. Furthermore, and this part is obviously infuriating to those who want a strict definition, I have control over the use of the word in the marketplace. Not me in particular but people like me. And people can either realize that "artisanal" is a cultural construct that needs meat on its bones through the way knowledgable and reasonable people use it (Steve Klc just made this point on the Steingarten thread.) Or you can stand there shouting at the rain while companies like Kraft and Cadbury release products that use the term artisanal to describe inferior products. But denying someone who makes an artisanal product the use of the term because it might not comply with a strict definition just puts the Krafts of the world that much closer to doing that.

You mean the times I spent in sleepaway camp cooking dinner in, and then sitting around, a campfire and doing things like singing songs or getting close to girls wasn't socialization? How can any group activity not be part of the socialization process, including doing group activities with children?

NickN - His carrots would have only been worthwhile if they tasted good. And while he went to the effort of growing them a certain way, the method didn't guarantee the outcome. We New Yorkers have learned this lesson because the reason we rely on the faucet is we know what comes out when we turn it on. As long as it tastes good..... Toby - Well diners don't take it that way which is the point I've been making. The reason that high end restaurants began to offer heirloom tomato salads is because the quality was better then regular tomatoes. Except when the season is pretty much over and the quality is diminished, they are perfectly happy using it as a marketing lure. We as consumers have to make sure that restaurants and purveyors use the word properly. If they don't, why is it wrong for General Foods to coopt the term?

The restaurant doesn't have to adopt that standard, they could reject the product as being an inferior. The point is, that even at the highest level restaurant, they use the word heirloom in a misleading way and as a marketing ploy. When people order an heirloom tomato salad, they aren't expecting watery tomatoes without any flavor. They are expecting what they get from mid-August through mid-September. Big corprations do not have any exclusives on serving food that doesn't taste good.

Once again, and as I have been saying all along, the issue is how the carrot tastes. Not that it was irridated. Hopefully one day someone will figure out a process to mass produce carrots that doesn't cause a detrioration to the end result. Unless you want to ensure that most people eat bad carrots for the rest of their life. It all depends on how the food tastes doesn't it? At Daniel they have an aseembly line of chefs preparing artisanally grown products. Is the food artisnal? Having had too many heirloom tomato salads after the season was over, I can tell you that it only meant something while the tomatoes were good. The rest of the time, even though they were artisanal tomatoes it was a marketing ploy.

Or why not Garfinkel's? Or maybe Aberdeen Steak House? Simon mentioned Launceston Place and that is an okay suggestion but if you are going to go that route, I would opt for Kensington Place (same owners) and take the short cab ride to RAH. It's a livelier place to eat. Launceston is on the dull side.

You never delivered my order of coffee. You need to offer your customers better service.

I mean unclean. There was that farm that was south of San Francisco where the wind was blowing cow dung or whatever on organically grown food. People were getting sick but it was still organic grown food. The point I'm trying to make is that the public's perception of what a word means is often different then what is actually hapenning. For example, the term is generally perceived as being that the food is clean. But in reality, quite often it isn't. Many of the shops in town that advertise themselves as organic or health food markets are smelly and dirty pig stys.

Is a Christo a Christo even though his assistants do the actual wrapping? As for the use of words with food, the use of the word organic is a good case study. Some of the dirtiest food in the world is organically grown. And how about Health Foods? Some health foods are so full of fat and calories, they are among the worst foods you could possibly eat.

Ed - Thanks for that terrific answer. I really wasn't trying to find the best Salt Baked Squid but I was making a point about how the quality is invariably the same from restaurant to restaurant. But you have identified a key aspect of Chinese dining that I don't apply when eating a meal that I apply to dining in a French restaurant all of the time. Off menu dining arranged in advance with the restaurant or even at the beginning of the meal. But I have to say there are cultural impediments to this. At some places like Shun Lee, the level of communication is good enough to get this done. But I'm not sure I could have a conversation with a host at Golden Unicorn and feel comfortable that I have adequately explained the type of meal I want. Nor might I add is the typical waiter at my table usually ingratiating in a way that might inspire me to do that. I have to agree with you about Ping's though. I haven't eaten in Chinatown but I have eaten in Elmhurst and by fat they are the most inevntive restaurant in the city. And their dim sum was the best I've had in this town by far.

Do the concepts of people gravitating to better tasting food and a more hospitable dining atmosphere really shock anyone? But is this charcateristic unique to humans? Cooking food aside, do animals prefer certain places to graze because of taste? And do they have preferences as to whom they graze or feed with? Do cows have grazing preferences?

Okay, then I guess I will have to suffer with Cope's. Did you make heirloom tomato paste?

In the 2003 L'Espresso Ristoranti d'Italia, the highest rated restaurant is Vissani with 19. Then Enotecha Pinchiorri, Gambero Rosso and La Pergola all get 18.5. Calandre doesn't show up until they list 18 point restaurants of which it shares that category with Dal Pescatore. Then the drop off is to 17 where there are 6 restaurants listed with the only one I'm not familiar with being Perbellini in a place called a Isola Rizza. Flipot and Mulinazzo both get 16.5 and Sadler gets 15. Now who should we trust here?

Toby - I'll take two boxes of YOUR home made dried corn. Anything but the commercial stuff.

But capitalized assets would be exempt wouldn't they? If WF owned their building and the business paid off the mortgage over the years, and it is sitting on its books at a value of say 500K, and they sell it for 1.3M, wouldn't the first 500K be non-taxed and distributed to them without any tax due? And wouldn't say the wine cellar inventory, at purchase price, be treated the same? Of course I might have the steps wrong, and they might have to distribute these things to shareholders first and have the shareholders sell them. But whatever recompense they get from assets with tax basis shouldn't be taxed at least until they recover the amount of the basis. Maybe some tax expert can chime in here.

When my office was in Acton I used to stay in Holland Park and I would walk by Lidgate all the time. Always tempted to go in but didn't have a reason to. They always had those appealing looking bangers in the window . Have you tried Allen in Mayfair? I walk past there all of the time and it certainly is the poshest looking butcher I've seen. And the cleanest. You can hardly tell it's a butcher shop.

I haven't been to the restaurant in ages and didn't even know AWT wasn't involved anymore. But when I went it was okay. Sort of B quality French bistro food. If I had to go to RAH, I would eat elsewhere. It's easy enough to eat in Mayfair at a place like Tamarind or Al Hamra and jump in a cab for the 5 minute ride to RAH. You can even go through the park and there wil be absolutely no traffic. Same if you ate up on Queensway or Westbourne Grove. It's a stright shot in a taxi.