Steve Plotnicki

Koffman's comeback is completely dependant on his reinventing himself though updating his cuisine. Or, making traditional cuisine taste so good that he is thought of as "classic." Like Le Gavroche. But what I don't understand is why he couldn't do that at the Berkeley and why anyone thinks his moving to a new location will have the type of positive affect on his cooking that you are all hoping for?

Yes Jaybee's wine at Diwan was terrific. Robert I think it comes from Acker Merrall.

This is a joke right? As long as you are driving out of your way to eat in Westchester, how about Pinocchio on the Post Road in Eastchester? The owner used to be a waiter at Dominick's on Arthur Avenue (in fact his father is still a waiter there.) I haven't been there for years but it used to have better then average N.Italian/American fare.

Well considering how little known many of the restaurants on Harden's Top Ten list are this problem isn't exclusive to WF. And to blame it on the press is a little bit unfair. The press reports on what people are talking about, or what they think people need to know about. If word of mouth doesn't do it, sometimes restaurants have their own publicists. And sometimes there are organizations that restaurants belong to that promote them to the press (Relais & Chateau as an example.) And sometimes there are regional or national tourist offices that do it. Considering their lack of recognition (outside the UK,) it has to ultimately corrolate into a lower gross for the restaurants. But if we examined something the U.K. governmental and administrative authorities were happy promoting, golf, there are no shortage of foreigners in places like Gleneagles or at St. Andrews. So they do have the ability to do it if they wanted to. I just think the Brits don't have a good tradition of promoting their food products at that level.

Baruch - All great answers if you want to drink white wine. Zin isn't a bad choice for a red. And surprisingly I've served chilly, crappy Beaujolais Nouveau with good results In fact if you go out to get a better beaujolais (like Brun if you can find it) that would be great. And I would bet Amarone (zin-like) wouldn't be bad either.

Adam - Well there's full and then there's full. I guess it all comes down to how much per head they earn for dinner. Then there is the issue of how many they seat, and whether they could expand and still sell the place out. Money, that awful, evil thing, has to be in the mix somewhere.

Gary - How well it is thought of in UK food guides doesn't mean very much if international diners do not travel out of their way to eat there. People make weekends out of going to Padstow (to see Basildog that is.) At the Michelin star level, a restaurant's fortune rests on its fame. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Winteringham Fields isn't particuarly famous on the worldwide dining scene. Basildog - This is true with any small business (including outside of the restaurant business) where the owner's unique efforts are associated with the name of the business. Look at La Tante Clare. Does it really have value without Pierre Koffman there? If PK sold his interest to someone else, everyone would know and everyone would wait to see if the new chef was as competent as PK? But it is different if we were talking about The Ivy isn't it? That has goodwill that is well beyond the name of any chef.

Maybe he could write about his bath oils? Or maybe which motor oil he uses? Whatever, as long as he doesn't tell us what his favorite oil is. If he tries to, you should immediately delete it.

I was going to offer you my copy but I can't locate it. If you are going to be in the city I would just try my nearest Barnes & Noble. But The Traveller's Bookshop on Madison and 35th is another plce to try. I will PM you if I find mine.

I tend not to believe in theories other then good product/good result, bad product/bad result. It doesn't sound feasable that places that are really delicious close because of red tape. The really successful restaurants in the U.K. like the Seafood Restaurant don't seem to have a problem getting their paperwork done. Maybe the fact that I never heard of Winteringham Fields before this article was written should be given more of the blame then you are currently giving it.

I have a question about this. Does a tandor have to be vertical? Can it be horizontal like a traditional or pizza oven? Also, what does a tandoor use for an energy source? Gas, wood, etc.?

Bux - I was making a joke/giving you a hard time. You're wrong.

Hurry up and buy yourself the Gambero Rosso guide to Rome which they published in English. It will have the most reliable restaurant and food recommendation of any guide you will find. They should have this at Bookhampton and if not have Amazon overnight it today.

Bux - Thanks for telling us that you don't find it interesting to have a favorite oil and that you prefer to vary oils. Except Marty didn't say he didn't vary oils, only that he has a favorite one . He might use his favorite oil only once a year and then use 364 different oils on the other days. But it's okay for him to have a favorite right? Shopping in this city is time consuming because the stores are large and difficult to get into and out of. When you go to Paris, not only does a place like Barthelemy have a great selection of perfectly aged cheese, but it isn't a hassle to shop there. If one wanted to go to Balducci's, Amish Market and Chelsea Market to buy all of the ingredients they are looking for, it isn't thw walk between the places that makes it difficult, it's the time you have to spedn shopping and waiting to pay in each place that makes food shopping in Manhattan infuriating.

Well the cold and hard way to look at what Simon has added is that these things (books, recordings and restaurants) are all businesses that need a certain amount of working capital to make them work. And when the notariety of the artisans who drive these businesses falls below a certain level, it's hard to make the numbers work. To look at this the other way, and this discussion is taking place on the U.K. restaurant closing thread, is that most businesses that are very successful don't decide to shut down in the midst of that success. Yes people retire but they usually find a way to keep a strong cashflow going. I should add to this that it is sad but I don't really think it's shameful. As much as we would all like for PK's restaurant to be great, it really isn't and that is probably the source of the split with the Berekely. I know I make it sound complicated but I always take the simple view in the first instance on these things. Most things of quality do well in the marketplace. Sure there are things that have merit and that are worthy that don't, and it can be blamed on some marketing guy or idiotic executive at a corporartion, but my experience is that the market is pretty flexible and if people like something, all the bad marketers and execustives in the world can't hold back it's success. With a restaurant, nothing helps a restaurant more then rave reviews. So far I haven't heard any and LML's upgrading from Matthew Grant's pan didn't exactly claim the place was cooking with it's burners at their highest flame.

Simon - I didn't make my comments based on nay other type of evidence but the article seeming to say that a bunch of top rated restaurants have closed or are closing and I haven't heard of that happening outiside of the U.K. to the same extent. But can you name restaurants in other countires that have closed? Only ones that are rubbish. None of the good restaurants have closed down. Thom - Haven't you read any of the famous British food threads on this site? It doesn't surprise me at all that the U.K. would have laws that restrict the art of dining in some way. The culture there never promoted eating as a way to improve the quality of your life until the mid/late 70's and I bet you that most of the laws predated the 70's.

Well one can't help but notice that a number of top restaurants are closing or have closed in the U.K., and that phenomenon isn't happening in any other country. Not in France, the U.S., Italy or Spain. And I can't believe that it is a function of the type of people who choose to run restaurants in the provinces. It would be one thing if one or two places packed it in. But the U.K. seems to be having a minor epidemic in this regard. I would be really surprised if economics weren't a factor to some extent. Even if it means that revenues aren't high enough to higher sufficient staff so the main chef/owners can take it easy to avoid the burnout factor. But it just can't be that chefs burn out in the U.K. at a faster rate then they burn out anywhere else.

Well I can't speak to the type of money they make at Winteringham Fields but I am assuming it is less then a place like Troisgros or another restaurant in that category. Whether the issue is the number of diners per day, the amount they can charge for dinner, the amount of wine one sells and what type, or having a hotel that people stay to add to the per person price they earn per meal, or the amount of staff they can afford to make the chef's life easier, whatever, I would be very surprised to find that with all the restaurant closings in the U.K. that money doesn't play a large part in it. And it isn't like top restaurants in other countries are closing. This appears to be a U.K. phenomenon.

His popularity would no doubt rocket if he was able to cook something that the press cared to write about. The press, media, etc. do not do the cooking. They only enhance a cook's reputation, some to the point of celebrity. But the launch point for doing that is a chef's ability to cook in a way that people care about. Even on this thread the people who supposedly love PK haven't eaten in his restaurant for years. Not because the press hasn't reported on it, but because there has been no positive word of mouth on the place so it hasn't been an interesting place to take a meal in years. I always find that people are melancholy for the stars of their generation and want them to make a comeback. There are countless music execs that believe if they only make a good Graham Parker or Bad Company (generic examples of older artists) CD then it will sell. I'm sure Simon can recount similar stories from the publishing biz with writers whose style has passed us by (if there is an equivelent in that business.) But it rarely, rarely ever happens that they are a success. There are reasons that most people who aren't popular anymore can't make comebacks. It's some funny combination of time passing them by and a lack of enthusiam on their part. That's why it will be interesting to see what Robuchon does in his new restaurant and will he be able to avoid the pitfalls associated with "making a comeback." But PK seems to have ceased to be important to the U.K. dining scene along time ago. I would be very surprised if he was able to do anything to change that.

When's the last time an older chef who cooked in the style that the last generation made popular opened a place that people really cared about? It doesn't really happen. There's a reason that Koffman is closing, people don't care about his food the same way they did 20 years ago. I mean why is GR in Royal Hospital Road instead of PK? Are you saying that Ramsey made it profitable but PK couldn't or thought the hotel would offer a better opportunity? I can't imagine that he is closing because he didn't get along with the hotel. It is more likely that he is closing because he wasn't getting big crowds at the restaurant and that's the source of his "not getting along" with the hotel. His restaurant in the Berkely was never the subject of rave reviews. It was more about his chef/celebrity. I've never eaten at any of his restaurants but, I would imagine that a meal at PK is inferior to a meal at a place like Gordon Ramsey in the same way that a meal at La Cote Basque in NYC is inferior to a meal at Daniel.

Maybe we should merge this thread with the one that laments the lack of quality and innovation at NYC's top restaurants.

The real reason that these places seem to be closing is that regardless of their good reputation in Harden's or any other guide, they haven't achieved international fame. I mean you aren't reading any articles about The Seafood Restuarant or Mainor au Quat Saisons closing are you? Nor do I see that any of the places mentioned are in a place like Ludlow where they get lots of foodie traffic based on the reputation of the area. Without getting into the mine field of an issue that whether the food these places serves makes them deserving of broader recognition, I think without the financial reward that comes with international acclaim, the amount of work it takes to run a high quality restaurant is burdensome. And if you aren't making a lot of money to do it I can understand packing it in. I mean why not open another type of small business with regular hours that throws off the same income?

Fat Guy - Well let me ask you this, do you think that most people who shop in those stores really shop price? The only two stores I ever hear mentioned when price is discussed are Fairway and Jefferson Market, and Zabars for their cookware. On the snooty upper east side, most people I know shop for quality and convenience and I think the same is true with Dean & Deluca's core customer base. But I can't think of anyone ever saying they choose Grace's as opposed to Citarella as opposed to Eli's Market based on price.

I'm trying to figure out what high prices have to do with food that is past it's prime? Doesn't Jefferson Market ever sell food that is over the hill? I have that problem at almost every food store in the city. And the problem is especially bad with cheese. I also don't understand why anyone thinks that D & D has a good reputation? I don't know them to have a great reputation for anything but their cheese and their spices. I always thought the great thing about that store was how nice it was laid out. Not that they had bad food, but I always thought of their meat and fish dept as inferior to places like Balducci's or Citarella.

I recently (a month ago) had a sumac dusted steak at Jarnac. It's a dish that's on their menu between 2-3 times a year. They change their menus monthly.