Carlovski

Whoops! Sorry Holly! Thought your tastes sounded a bit 'Butch' (Oh dear, Women's Lib Flaming imminent...)

I would say a Texas only chain counts as such - if only for the fact Texas is actually the size of a country! In the UK Chain restaurants are seen as a much safer alternative by a majority of people, especially families, who for some reason perceive them as better value. Yet in nearly all cases they are not. Regardless of the 'Value' issue (Which I could go on about for a LONG time!), they are not even usually cheaper.'Real' restaurants may seem intimidating- There is a tendency in the British public to assume they are going to be ripped off - Having to order side dishes separatley tends to be a particular pet hate. I have no problem with the concept of chain restaurants - in the UK we actually have a few half decent ones, Pizza Express is ok (McDonalds for Middle class people my friend describes it as!), Loch Fyne Oyster company is excellent and there are a couple of for the moment local ones which I can see spreading (Poppadum express - an Indian based one is quite good). The problem is when they get so 'corporate' with no allowance for variation, availability of local produce and become inflexible (Try asking for a different preparation of a dish in a chain restaurant - Or ordering 'Off Menu'!)

Holly, I just had a look at your website too, Now I see where you are coming from (A girl after my own heart!) We just don't have that many tuck your napkin in your shirt, stuff your face and make a mess type places in the uk - well not that aren't horrible themed monstrosities. Traditionally in the UK, restaurants were for the rich, and even more recently were seen to be only for special occasions, where you needed to be on your best behaviour. It was only with the influx of 'Foreign' restaurants that affordable, fun dining took off. Something I think you might like is the authentic Balti experience - But You probably need to go up to Birmingham for the genuine article. The basic idea is a fairly scruffy indian restaurant (More like a transport cafe in fact), unlicensed so bring your own booze (No Corkage!), and eat out of the Balti pan scooping the food out with Nan bread (Preferably a shared table naan - about the size of a duvet!) have a look at Birmingham Balti Guide Some of the concoctions are getting over the top though - Fancy a chicken, lamb, keema, prawn, chickpea, lentil and vegetable balti? Yes, that is all in one dish! Or as I mentioned before, there are a few seafood/shelfish places along the coast where you can just sit down with a pint of cockles or a boiled crab.

And don't forget, the proper accompaniment to a Fry up (Unless you are going with the Guiness option) is a large mug of over sweet, over milky tea (Tea bags, not 'proper' tea as well) drank piping hot. Hotel breakfasts can be very variable - Some of the ones doing 'Self service' style are o.k - if they regularly bring out fresh supplies - Sausages, mushrooms, bacon etc is fine this way - but then the eggs are terrible. If you get it plated, it tends to be better - but You don't tend to get the full pig out you desire. They are also scandalously expensive, especially in London. Oh, and can I tempt you with the delights of the Kebab? OK, not really British - but what gets served in your average british Kebab shop has very little to do with Greece/Turkey. Especially if like an old friend of mine you have Kebab meat, chips, Garlic sauce AND Gravy!.

I'd say if you want a taste of british 'Low' cuisine, DO go to a curry house. No, the food isn't really indian, it's Brit-indian, but no less valid for that. For the 'Full English' breakfast, try one of the Pubs/cafe's around one of the markets, The Cock Tavern near Smithfield Market is a good place for a fry up and pint of Guinness. For a higher class of british fare try St John's .You should be able to get a good welsh rarebit as well, as a savoury, and you must have the eccles cake and lancashire cheese (Although I am from lancashire, and hence biased!) Other things to try? Bangers and Mash, Whitebait, Cockles (Try nipping down to the coast - The cockle sheds at Southend on Sea for a start), Oysters (Real ones, not those Pacific monsters!), Black Pudding, Faggots (No really!), british cheeses (There is more than just Stilton, but not a bad place to start), proper puddings - Not dessert, a pudding, think spotted dick and custard. And don't forget mushy peas with your fish and chips. Carl P.S You can also catch the end of the Asparagus season if you are lucky!

Cheers, Just need to decide which type I want now!

I am sure it takes as much skill to create a GOOD version of any tarted up recipe as it does to perfectly roast a chicken, or make a lemon tart. The difference is that while you have had Roast Chicken 100's of times, and can be super critical, it probably the first time you have tried pigs trotter stuffed with eel, foie gras and whelk poached in verjuice. You might actually be tasting a second rate version, but a second rate version of something which is good, still tastes good, just as although perfect roast chicken is heavenly, a half decent one is still pretty damn good. Carl

Congratulations on discovering the wonderful world of the Masala. It's funny how the supposedly culinary leaders of the world, the French still think they can make recipes 'a la indienne' by adding a couple of teaspoons of raw, untempered curry powder into a dish. Do you roast your spices before grinding? It makes a whole world of difference (And tends to make them easier to grind!). It is interesting to hear the differences in availability of spices. In the UK, I have never had a problem getting most things (Probably due to the large asian population here I suppose). Supermarkets carry most things (Expensively), Health food shops tend to sell things in more economical bags rather than jars, and asian shops are the best of all. My tiny local off-license has a small rack with almost everything you would ever need (Possibly even Dill!).

Anyone know where I can get some high quality cured pig face here in the UK? Sounds worth trying.

Following on with the Pecorino/Black pepper thread, Nigella Lawson has a pasta recipe in her last book which was simply pasta, grated pecorino, and copious amounts of black pepper (Presumably Olive oil and/or butter as well, can't remember). Has anyone else tried this? (She reccomends adding a touch of lemon juice if you use Parmesan instead of Pecorino) Anyone else know any other recipes requiring a more than liberal hand with the pepper? I have a couple of indian recipes where black pepper is the dominant flavour, but how about more european cusine? And wasn't pepper very expensive in ancient times? Would a recipe requiring so much pepper really be a 'Peasant dish'?

Once popped, mustard seeds take on a completely different taste. they turn much more nutty, with a gentle warmth. I love the things, especially in simply fried vcgetable dishes, especially potatoes. Potatoes with Mustard seeds, fennel seeds, chilli and cumin is a particular favourite.

Does anyone have a definitive answer to the origins of the dish? I've heard both that it is an ancient traditional dish of italian woodcutters, and that it was invented for American serviceman in WW2. Or is it something in between? PS I feel that a controlled hand with the nutmeg can do wonders to many pasta dishes, I know the french don't like it. So it must be good!

Is that actually a variety of 'true' Asparagus? Or Hop shoots like Elizabeth David mentioned (in Italian food I think)?

I have seen a lot of strange things added in the name of Carbonara. I am not a huge authenticity freak, but I just think cream spoils it, and mushrooms are fairly pointless. I've had it with the addition of onions (not bad, but a bit unnecessary) and a hint of chilli (Again not too bad). My recipe possibly gilds the lily slightly, but I like it! For enough pasta for 2 (Carbonara is not a thing to make for a feast - it is hard to make succesfuly for too many people). I like linguini, I suppose Spaghetti is traditional and some people like penne, or bucatini. 2 eggs + 1 yolk (Or 3 eggs, or 2, doesn't really matter - But I like the extra yolk) About 100g of your favourite cured pork product, in cubes Butter (Unsalted) White wine, or vermouth - about a wineglass Parmesan (Or a mix of Parmesan and Pecorino is good - It adds a touch of sharpness and sweetness) Nutmeg - Some disagree, but I think this is essential. Put on your pasta to cook. The whole thing should take about as long as the pasta. If your bacon/pancetta has the rind, cut it off and place in the pan with a small amount of oil. Heat over a medium heat until the fat renders out and it has started to crisp up. You can now take this out. If yours is rindless (Or you are using one of those packs of lardons) then it doesn't really matter. Put in the bacon, over a low heat and allow the fat to render out slowly before turning up the heat to crisp it up. Beat the eggs in a bowl along with a couple of handfuls of parmesan, and generously add black pepper (No salt though - not with all that cheese and bacon!) and nutmeg to taste (Not too much, it can be overpowering, a couple of scrapes with the grater should do it) Add the wine/vermouth to the pan and allow to reduce down until it is quite syrupy and then add a good knob of butter. Drain the pasta and return to the hot pan (Not on the heat!) pour over the bacony buttery wine (sounds tasty on its own!), stir in and then quickly tip in the egg/cheese mixture. Vigorously stir until every piece of pasta is coated. Then eat! I don't tend to add extra cheese, but a healthy extra grind of pepper is good. It's not the most exact recipe, as it sort of evolved, and I tend to just guess on amounts. PS I have a confession, I did make one recently with cubes of chorizo. Not bad, but it was a very odd colour from the paprika. Most disturbing.

It is an interesting point, the disparity between the dessert course and other courses. Maybe it is the lack of genuinely expensive, rare, luxury dessert ingredients. I can't really think of any equivalent to truffles, caviar,foie gras etc on the dessert menu. So for a restaurant trying to 'Add value' to a dish, or to supply (or at least be seen to be supplying) something special to a dish, something removed from homestyle cooking then it must add the bells and whistles. On saying that, why is a 'Frozen suspension of egg, cream and vanilla pod' deemed to be a more fitting and simpler accompaniment to a garlic, bay leaf and cinnamon foam? One is more traditional, yes (Or is it? Did Normandy Farmhouses have ice cream makers?) but should restaurants just stick to what is traditional?

The only problem with discussing this here is that we tend to only get one side of the argument. This thread follows on from a discussion I had with some friends who are much more of the 'Food is just fuel' opinion. I think everyone here has a pretty close opinion on what constitutes good food, and more importantly is prepared to try eating almost anything, with an open mind. We probably need a few more posters horrified by the idea of eating 'foreign muck', 'stinky blue cheese' and 'meat with blood dripping out of it' to get a balanced argument.

Maybe the topic is a little broad, some concrete examples might be good. I think the chocolate example is a good one. None foody types (Or indeed non chocolatey types - I think chocolate obsession is quite specialised!) would probably be astounded by the prices people will pay for artisanal chocolate, especially when they taste it it is so different to their conceptions of what chocolate tastes like. I personally see chocolate (Hgh cocoa solids, decent brand) and chocolate bars (sweet, cheap and hopefully very sickly!) as two different things - see my cheese triangles comment below and I enjoy them both, indifferent ways. But I can believe that some people would love one and hate the other, but why should the one who loves the Valhrona and hates the cheap chocolate be deemed the more 'Sophisticated'? For an interesting angle on the development of childrens palates read this article by Jay Rayner http://www.observer.co.uk/foodmonthly/stor...,568557,00.html

I bet if you got the stats for top selling toppings in the uk, sweetcorn would be right up there (Probably in between pineapple and chicken tikka!). I know I am a hypocrite - I am against food snobbery and believe what you eat should be about what you enjoy, but sweetcorn on a pizza is just wrong!

I am sure that no one here will have any doubt that it is possible to develop a broader appreciation of food - just as a wine afficionado can pick out components of taste in a wine, a gourmet can do the same with food. But just as a good wine will still taste good to a novice drinker a less 'seasoned' eater will still enjoy a well made dish. The issue is, are certain foods inherently more 'sophisticated'?

Lamington, I think you are right, tastes do change over time, and I think you can grow to love something which once made you retch. I think the snobbery comes with the foods you are supposed to enjoy, and the opinion of some people that if you don't like them you have an unsophisticated, or underdeveloped palate - rather than the much simpler explanation that you simply don't like it! I wonder how many 'Foodies' we could fool into loving Cheese Triangles if we told them it was a very acquired taste and sold them at Dean + Deluca? (I personally quite like them, all you have to do is tell yourself they have nothing to do with cheese and enjoy on their own level. Just like Crab sticks!)

Right, enough etymology, lets talk chow! Whoops, now i'm turning American.

I forgot to check the dictionary definition, always a good start with this sort of discussion! Interesting, the use of the word as a verb, not something I had really though of. I probably could add some incendiary comments about Webster's being an American, not English dictionary, but I won't! Carl

It seems like the dislikes fall into 3 main categories - Textural - This probably is the thing with raw meat/fish and offal. - Specific tastes - The Fennel/anise thing is obviously a contender. - Smell - Sprouts, cabbage maybe liver as well. What we need is a big experiment, double blind taste tests, with the offending textures and smells removed, see if people still don't like them. Don't know what can be done about the Aniseed thing, I guess some people just don't like aniseed. BTW Anyone here have food shape problems? I have a friend who won't eat carrots cut into rounds (Not my favourite way, but I'm not THAT fussy!)

Many foods are described as appealing to a so called sophisticated palate. These tend to be food which are not necessarily instantly gratifying, indeed, often taste unpleasant on the first try. How much of this is to do with the actual taste, and how much is due to conditioning, and peer pressure? If I order a pizza, and have it with anchovies and olives, and my friend has pineapple and sweetcorn, my choice might be considered more sophisticated, but why? Because a child might enjoy my friends choice but probably not mine? By the principles of Thai cookery both choices are unbalanced (Too salty Vs too sweet, with little counterbalance). How do certain foods attain this status? I see several common properties - The foodstuff is either dirt cheap (Well at least originally!) or expensive - Salty or sour is good, sweet isn't. - Most people shouldn't like it - It should preferably not look too appetising - You shouldn't be able to get it from your local supermarket! Does anyone know of any evidence that tastes do actually mature? Or have any examples of foods which follow/break the golden rules? Carl

I'm with you on the Laphroiag, it's like chewing peat. My personal hates are cucumber (I don't know why some people say it is fairly tasteless, I can detect the thinnest slice a mile away), although for some reason, I like Tzatziki just fine. Raw celery is another (The only food to come with built in dental floss!). Not liking either of these is a particulary 'foody' crime so here goes - Things I honestly don't like, but probably should. - Most indian pickles and chutneys - I LOVE indian food, I love the homestyle simple cooking, Dal's, simple breads, sambhars etc, but I just can't get a taste for the pickles I am supposed to enjoy with them - maybe I just haven't found the one for me yet, I don't know. I keep trying though. (I am thinking about Jeffery Steingarten and his kimchi 'problem' here) -Black pudding. I am from Lancashire, I used to live a stones throw from Bury Market. My dad loves the things, but I just have never got the taste for the things (Especially the 'fatty' ones). Maybe If I try Paul Heathcote's (The ones with sweatbreads in!) I may be converted. Gelatinous Fat - I understand the importance of fat in meat. I hate overly lean cuts, but I still cannot stomach eating the fattiest cuts, unless they have been rendered super crispy. I know I am probably missing out on some fantastic chinese dishes, and some great pork recipes, but I just can't keep it down! Fennel - I just don't like it! (On saying that after hating fennel seeds for years, I have started to love them in all manner of veggie dishes, and a couple of pork ones, maybe I need to try again) There, my secret shame