sammy

The flavor was pretty good with subtle lemon and verbena. I think we had more of a problem with the consistency, which was unsorbetlike (a new word). Kind of creamy, in fact my wife said that it reminded her of a facial product. (verbena skin cream).

My wife and I celebrated our anniversary with dinner at Blue Hill Saturday evening. It was our first time at the restaurant. All of the savory dishes were wonderful. There has been some debate over the desserts served at Blue Hill lately so I'll concentrate on that aspect of our meal. We decided to share the flight of desserts and that's when we thought things swung in the wrong direction. The first dessert was lemon verbena sorbet. I thought it was just okay, my wife didn't like it at all. We were then served the avocado and lime dessert, chocolate bread pudding and the apple terrine. The avocado grew on us but it still never got to the point where we'd ever order it again. The chocolate bread pudding was fabulous. We both agreed that the apple terrine had a lot of flavor but we didn't care for the consistency of the terrine. Maybe a little to jello like. The last dessert was the cheesecake with blueberry sauce. The sauce was excellent, but again, we didn't care for the consistency of the cake. It was very light. Dinner was capped off with financiers (spelling?) and home-made plum preserves which was super. I would have loved to have some for breakfast this morning. We both felt that they were just trying too hard to be creative with desserts while the emphasis on the savory course was for things to taste good. When we go back, we'll probably just go for the cheese for dessert. Although we weren't big fans of the desserts, I must say that Blue Hill offers a truly great dining experience. The service is professional without being overly obtrusive or stuffy. The room is nice and has a nice buzz to it. The thing that most struck me was what a great value it was. There are inumerable restaurants in NYC (and the suburbs where we live) that offer so much less in quality of food and service yet charge so much more. We will definitely go back, and soon.

I'd add that if any "expert" in perceptual psychology read thru this thread they'd suggest we all be institutionalized.

In the interest of science, they cost $49.95, not $80. Mr. Wine Clip made a joke about the price going up, which I imagine it will after FG and Sam's experiment, but it is still $49.95 according their website. I recieved my clip yesterday and can think of at least one additional use if it doesn't make the wine more enjoyable.

I'll have to try smoking them in my WSM. Thanks for the idea.

Don't know the reasoning behind it. I had always simmered then grilled. The nice lady behind the counter at Usingers asked me how I was going to cook them and suggested the opposite. All I know is I now prefer them that way, as do my friends. Why don't you and Sam do a controlled double blind experiment and report back on the scientific aspect of cooking brats.

Order 5lbs of fresh Brats today from Usingers and you can redeem yourself!

Ditto what Sam said. The fresh ones are far superior. Even with the fresh ones, I still prefer grilling or pan frying first, then simmering with beer and onions. And I just remember another benefit. You can cook more than you think you're going to eat and let them sit covered in the beer and onions. Still warm enough to eat an hour or so later. Either way you cook them, you can't go wrong.

Tryska's method works great but I prefer the opposite order of things. It was actually suggested to me by one of Usinger's sales people in their shop in Milwaukee. I like to lightly pan fry the brats first, to get a little color on them. Be careful not to cook on too high a heat or too long or they'll split. I then add some beer and onions right to the pan and have them simmer for about 10-minutes. Make sure to use a good beer (not bud, miller, etc). I've used anchor steam, bass, guinness, etc. and all were delicious. Don't underestimate the beer's impact on the taste of the onions. Another benefit to this method is that in case the brats do split and lose some of their juices, it just adds flavor to the onion and beer mixture. Usinger's also sells a great mustard, Kallas Honey Mustard, that is just perfect for a Brat and Onion sandwich.

Agreed and thank you for letting the post stand. I wasn't trying to provide evidence to prove anything, I just thought the Magnet Guy made sense and deserved to be heard by the members.

Needless to say, people of all sorts read egullet. A CEO of a magnet company became aware of the Wine Clip controversy and read through both threads. Because of the tenor of the conversation, he is unwilling to use his name or the name of his company. I understand that you may then think he is a fraud and a snake oil salesman for not using his name and company but we've already seen what happens to some that are willing to use their name. Anyway, he was quite interested in the discussion. As I was probably the most outspoken as to the poor treatment received by Mr. Wine Clip, I was asked to post the following from him. I believe it is well thought out: "Here is my responce to the e-gullet thread. I have read each of the responses completely: There are two different issues here - one is the science of what actually happens when a fluid passes through a magnetic field, and the other is whether or not these changes in the fluid actually affect the taste of wine. One is science, and one is subjective. Here is the science: When a conductor or conductive fluid (in this case wine) passes through a magnetic field, an electrical charge is created. That charge can have an effect on molecules that are suspended in the fluid - loosely bonded molecules can have those bonds broken, resulting in smaller molecules. We can hypothesize that the taste of many small molecules is smoother than the taste of fewer large molecules. There is no proof of this, however. There is no scientific data that stipulates that smaller tannin molecules taste better than larger ones. We can give you a technical explanation of the science, but that has nothing to do with whether or not there is a difference in taste. How can you prove in a lab that one thing tastes better than another thing? Example - I believe in my soul that beer tastes better out of a nice pint glass than it does out of a paper cup. Now, take the beer into a lab and analyze it in a nice pint glass and in a paper cup and I am sure that you will find no measurable difference in the two beers. Science simply cannot explain the difference that I perceive. A vast majority of people who try it can taste the difference, that's the important thing. Any product can be held up to the scrutiny of science and be made to look like a placebo. People buy beautiful wine glasses because they think it enhances the wine - try to prove that in a lab. People believe decanted wine tastes better than non-decanted - try to prove that in a lab. People believe 18 year old scotch is tastier than 12 year old - prove it scientifically."

Esca, Batali's Italian seafood restaurant on 43rd and 9th. Enough to choose from for the unadventurous as well as some adventurous and delicious dishes. Excellent wine list as well with several sold by the glass or "quartino." As for price, just order carefully. The crudo and side dishes can boost the bill rapidly.

Cava is a great idea. I'm not familiar with Lustau Fino so I'm assuming it is a Cava. Thanks for the help.

We're hosting a dinner Friday night as a fundraiser for my daughter's school. My wife and I chose a somewhat Spanish theme so would like to stick with some Spanish wines. Our entree is going to be a roasted white fish of some sort (depends on the fish market but probably halibut or hake or maybe cod) over a bed of roasted potatoes, onions and tomatoes with olives, chorizo and fresh herbs. The fish will be breaded with herbed bread crumbs. The sauce is the juice from the vegetables plus some fish stock and a touch of fino sherry. For appetizers, we'lll have assorted tapas to include ham, chorizo, manchego, spanish frittatta, piquillo peppers stuffed with goat cheese and and maybe sardines. Desserts are at someone else's house. Yeah! I was leaning towards an Albarino to start (Pedro de Soutomaior) and a basic rioja (Caceres) or a Ribera del Duero (Protos Cosecha). I'm not looking to spend a fortune on the wine as I do not believe many will notice the difference anyway. I'd like to keep it in the $10-$15 neighborhood. I'm saving a better bottle to drink while doing the dishes. Your suggestions are appreciated.

Their claim is supported by countless industry experts, visit any winery with too much money on their hands - they are pouring their wines into Riedel glasses, none of them are duct-taping magnets to the bottles and waving incense around. I have never seen their claim that their Bordeaux Vinum glass "... allowing wines to achieve a balance that would normally take years of ageing to acquire." has been supported by science or an expert. I've seen respected wine geeks say they prefer the riedel glasses to others as they believe the shape and size of the glass has an affect on the nose and directs the wine to particular parts of the tongue, nothing more, nothing less. Craig, why is the Q&A now out of the question?

But did you have the tasters sitting in a controlled climatized atmospheric bubble for a double blind study and put the results through a university computer to validate the results or did you ask them which one they preferred?

Why does he need to join here? People are regularly slammed that never even heard of eGullet. They've made a public claim on a public website. Here is their e-mail address: info@riedelusa.com Rick Bayless never appeared here. Look what happened to him.

I started a thread on wine glasses but I've been asked to "come clean" as to my intentions so here goes: I pulled the following from Riedel's website: "This glass smoothes out the rough edges, emphasizing the fruit, allowing wines to achieve a balance that would normally take years of ageing to acquire." This is a claim by Riedel about their Bordeaux Vinum glass. Their claim is similar to Mr. Wine Clip's claim. I was unable to find any evidence on their website that their glass does what it says it does. I don't see any double blind testing being done nor anyone here asking them to PROVE IT. I know that many members have purchased these and other glasses from Riedel, even encouraged others to do the same. I do not recall any members accusing the Riedel company of being snake-oil salesman and selling something worthless (or maybe just not worth the price their charging). I do not understand why eGulleteers have to pounce on people BEFORE even trying something. Mr. WIne Clip came on to the site AFTER a member raised the Wine Clip topic. He's been a stand-up guy from the get go offering to send clips to SKEPTICS for free just to get people to try it. That is showing confidence in his product and should be commended. Ask the Riedel folks if they'll send you a few Vinum glasses to test THEIR claim and see what their response is. Also, for the sake of full disclosure, I don't know Mr. Wine Clip or ever heard of the Wine Clip before the thread started. I just think that the treatment afforded him by many here is disgraceful.

The glasses I referred to are Riedel Vinum Bordeaux and their claim came right from their website. As for my intention, it is to illustrate the unfair treatment by many members accusing Mr. Wine Clip of being a "snake-oil" salesman and selling a worthless product while one of the most respected glass manufactuers makes a similar claim and they get a free ride. On Riedel's site, I don't see evidence of any double blind studies or any other evidence that the glass does what it says it does. Why the double standard? Nice edit by the way!

I'm contemplating buying wine glasses for a friend who is starting to become interested in wine. I came across a wine glass on the internet that makes the following claim: "This glass smoothes out the rough edges, emphasizing the fruit, allowing wines to achieve a balance that would normally take years of ageing to acquire." What do you think? Is it possible that this glass does what the manufacturer claims?

Forget it.

Several things here: 1. Fat Guy did not say that the glasses would make your wine taste better, only that they would "make all your wine more enjoyable." This is clearly a judgment call, and presumably a reasonably intelligent person who understands that he/she does not care at all about glassware will know that FG's recommendation does not apply. 2. Fat Guy's personal recommendation was just that: a personal recommendation from someone whose judgment we know and trust. In this way, it is similar to a trusted restaurant critic saying, "you can't go wrong with the fish." Fat Guy was not trying to make money by selling us glassware. Mr. Clip, on the other hand, is trying to make money and is not someone whose judgment we know and trust. 3. It is well known and understood that glassware (shape, etc.) can effect one's sensory perceptions of the beverage consumed from same. Suggesting that certain glassware can have a positive effect on the experience of drinking wine goes right in line with currently accepted science, not against it. Suggesting that a ring of magnets around the neck of a wine bottle "break up the tannins" and that the magnetic field produced by those magnets "changes the molecular structure" of the wine does. 4. I think many of us are not willing to accept the idea that the Wine Clip does what Mr. Clip says it does because a) the idea that it works the way he says it works goes against the scientific knowledge and experience many of us have; and b) he really hasn't demonstrated that it does do what he says it does. I don't think anyone on these threads has suggested that wine served using a Wine Clip in certain circumstances can produce wine that is perceived as having certain improvements. What many of us are questioning is whether or not the perceived difference is a real difference, and if so, whether or not it is due to the Wine Clip, and specifically due to the wine passing through the magnetic field, or due to other factors not inextricably linked to use of a Wine Clip. I'm sorry to hear that you are not happy with the response that Mr. Clip received here, but extraordinary claims are generally met with skepticism and there is a commensurate burden on the maker of extraordinary claims to support those claims with sound evidence. Instead Mr. Clip replied with many of the same techniques and arguments as well as the personal style of most sellers of snake oil. This proved risible to many of us who have knowledge, education and experience apparently not shared by Mr. Clip that pokes holes in most of his arguments and evidence. Sp, I'm not sure how, exactly, you think we should respond to him. Many of us have strongly challenged some of his assertions, and a few have been a little sarcastic, but I haven't seen anything that struck me as inappropriate or outside the boundary of behaviors exhibited by Mr. Clip himself. Try going back through these threads replacing "Wine Clip" with "Crystal Pyramid" and ask yourself how you would respond then. 1. Why are you saying it is a judgement call? He said "...that will make all your wine more enjoyable." Sounds like a fact to me. And how many other ways will the wine be more enjoyable besides tasting better? 2. My understanding was that eGullet received a commission from Amazon so therefore he would have a financial interest. 3. It is well known and understood by who? Where are the studies proving this? How do we know that Spieglau and Riedel are not selling snake-oil? 4. Without having to go too far back in the thread, I think the following quotes from an eGullet Coordinator would "strike me as inappropriate." "Yeah, you can't get more admirable than donating snake oil proceeds to charity." "The Wine Clip is patent medicine. " "Folks, don't be chumps. Don't buy an untested product for $50, $20, or $5, no matter who gets the profits. You're just encouraging people like twc to flood the market with more pseudoscientific crap. "

What kinds of products are you suggesting people use your proposed buying protocol?

Before I take advantage of the discounted purchase price for the wine clip, I'd just like to better understand why the majority of posters in this thread are not willing to accept (or even consider with an open mind) the idea that the wine clip does what Mr Wine Clip and others say it does. Even after our own Mark Sommelier reported his results with experienced wine tasters. What is most bothersome to me, is that many eGullet members consistently make claims about products and the masses take it at face value and run out to buy them without the same amount of scrutiny. As an example in the wine forum: "For the price of one bottle of okay California Cabernet Sauvignon you can get glasses that will make all your wine more enjoyable. " Fat-Guy April 23, 2003 Nobody questioned the statement and several logged on to Amazon as quickly as they good to buy the glasses before the promotion ended. I am just as skeptical as the next guy when it comes to claims about products but I for one am disappointed with the reception we have given Dennis.

I love Lobel's meat. I've bought meat from them and believe that they sell a truly great product. From the Q&A on eGullet with Evan Lobel, he stated the following in response to a question on the Kurobota pork: "What we're hearing from our customers is that they are absolutely amazed that pork could be so flavorful, tender and juicy, compared to the commonly available commodity, or "white," pork. " Is that much different than claims about the wine clip? Why no double blind pork tastings?