sammy

The only people that put the sauce on the steak at the restaurant are the ones that ask to see a menu.

for whom is saving money not a concern? Saving money is a concern to most but it all comes down to choices. If saving money was the be all and end all of all of our lives, we'd all be bicycling to work or taking the bus instead of driving expensive cars and loading it up with gasoline at $2 per gallon (I live in CT). We'd all be eating pasta and rice every day for sustenance and for those who do have the live that way, it is very unfortunate. I i think, with your hyperbole, that you're ignoring the possibility that there is, in fact, a middle ground. I agree, there is a middle ground. In fact, I think it is all about middle ground. I was just responding to your quote which I didn't sense implied any middle ground. Sorry if I misinterpreted. My wife always says, "everything in moderation."

I wonder how many people actually save money shopping at Costco and Walmart. I'd have to think that a large number of people end up buying things while they are there that they normally wouldn't purchase if they just went to a grocery store. That concept is the genius of Stew Leonards in Norwalk. It is designed with basically one aisle that is somewhat like a maze. The idea is that it is difficult to just run in a and pick up the few things you need in certain aisles. You have to pass by everything (unless you know the secret ins and outs) and end up buying so much more than you usually would at a typical supermarket. I believe that is why they have one of the highest sales per square foot of space in the industry.

I don't think so. People can have likes and dislikes but I doubt anyone can prefer prepackaged store bought mozzarella (unless it is buffalo mozzarella imported from italy) over fresh mozzarella.

Like I said, it is all about choices and I greatly respect you for the decision you made. I think it is great that you can stay home with your kids.

for whom is saving money not a concern? Saving money is a concern to most but it all comes down to choices. If saving money was the be all and end all of all of our lives, we'd all be bicycling to work or taking the bus instead of driving expensive cars and loading it up with gasoline at $2 per gallon (I live in CT). We'd all be eating pasta and rice every day for sustenance and for those who do have the live that way, it is very unfortunate. I think it is sad that anyone has to live that way and truly wish it weren't the case but for most others, there are these choices we make everyday. No one would be buying Lobel's steaks if all we wanted to do was save money. So many seem to be looking to point this thread into a class war and I think it should be nothing of the sort for the majority of consumers. For some, yes, I understand that they need to save money any way they can and HAVE a responsibility to but food as economically as feasible. On the other hand, most of the people that I have seen shopping at Costo and Walmart are purchasing items that are easily identifiable as not required for one's sustenance. Things like video games, cd players, digital cameras, etc. Yes, those things are nice to have but I would personally rather have imported prociutto with fresh mozzarella on crusty bread from my local italian grocery than the crap mozzarella sold at Costco. The problem is that as more people buy the crap mozzarella from Costco to go along with their 64 pack of doritos that they bought to give to their kids for lunch every day, the harder it will be to find good mozzarella, and to me and to others that appreciate good food, that is important. I'm sure carrot sticks are a less expensive snack than Doritos but I'd bet Costco and Walmart sell a lot more Doritos. It has abosolutely nothing to do with class or economic situation. It has everything to do with making a choice and buying what tastes good.

Let's keep this to just food: 1. Tom and Jane can afford to shop wherever he/she wants. 2. While in Costco buying 100 rolls of toilet paper, Tom buys a color television, 3 inkjet cartridges, snow tires and a lawnmower. On the way out he thinks about dinner and picks up a gummy fresh bread, prepackaged mozzarella, frozen italian sausages, tasteless tomatoes, a box of pasta (actually a 5 pack), and prepackaged parmigiana cheese. 3. Jane buys the same things at Costco as Tom but stops on the way home at the italian grocery and buys fresh mozzarella, storemade sausage, has a wedge of parmigiana cut from a wheel, a box of pasta and picks up a seeded semolina bread from the Bronx. Who eats better, Tom or Jane?

(Emphasis mine) Why is that lazy? What if the packaged mozzerella and premade sausages are adequate for their purposes, and the savings offered at Costco is significant enough to make a difference in their monthly budget? For instance, I can no longer afford to be spending $1000 a month on groceries for a family of four. Significant cuts need to be made, and one of them is likely to be shopping at the farmer's market. We simply cannot afford to spend twice as much on our lettuce and apples, regardless of their organic fabulousness. Do I feel bad to be taking business away from the producers? Sure. But I have other things to spend my money on, like bills and shoes for the kids. That's fair but let's exclude the true economic hardship cases from the argument. There is no doubt that the majority of people buying groceries at Costco and Walmart are doing so by choice, not as a necessity. Clearly, the big chains are not generating billions of revenues from people in economic hardship. For those people buying groceries at Costco by choice, is the mozzarella adequate, maybe. Is it better than the home-made, definitely not. At the end of the day, the people buying mozzarella from Costco are not eating as well (and I mean tasting good) as they could if they bought the mozzarella from the italian grocery. And yes, I consider them to be lazy if they make the decision to buy everything at Costco recognizing that they are not buying as high a quality product as they could because they don't want to make an extra trip to a store. My point is that as more people buy the Costco mozzarella, the less likely stores like the local italian grocery will be able to survive and then we all lose because availability of the really good stuff will be limited. Again, my point has nothing to do with the difficult economic reality that many people face. I'm talking about people that have a choice and choose to patronize the Walmarts and Costcos and Blockbusters over the independent stores that are providing products and services of value.

Agreed. There are many places where Walmart or Costco may actually bring an increase in variety or quality. But where I live, the big stores are putting the little guys out and the selection and quality are NOT as good. People are being swayed by "perceived" value (big packages) and not recognizing what they may be losing in variety, taste and service as the smaller stores are forced to close. I'd rather overpay for milk at the small italian grocery where I can get homemade mozzarella, homemade sausage and 5 different kinds of bread from the Bronx than buy milk from Costco. Selling milk at a higher price helps support the italian grocery store. Again, I'm not talking about major dollars. What tends to happen is that people get lazy and while going to Costco to save $1.00 on each gallon of milk, they end up buying packaged mozzarella and premade sausages there and the italian grocery struggles to survive. And using the Blockbuster example, the smaller video stores actually had better selection than Blockbuster. While Blockbuster's store is 5 times the size and may have 50 copies of Terminator 3, the smaller store will have 10 copies of Terminator 3 and single copies of 15 movies not carried by Blockbuster.

If I was served a cold steak bereft of flavor I'd give it back and demand another one. Did you speak to the waiter about it?

The steak sauce is for the tomato and onion salad, not the steak !

What I am most fearful of with respect to the corporate behemoth's is that it may lead to a lack of choice in the future. If so many are going to be doing their food shopping at Super Walmart, what chance does the small retailer have. I'll use a local independently owned seafood store as an example. The local store stocks a wide variety of seafood and I never know what I may find the day I go in. Of course they always have the usuals of tuna, farm raised salmon, a few varieties of shrimp, etc. For me, the value of the store is the personal service I receive and the wide variety of fish available. The risk the store runs in stocking such a wide variety of fish is spoilage. Shrimp, no problem. Most of it is frozen and they simply defrost an amount that they'll sell in a day. They'll also use the profits on a commodity product like shrimp to support possible losers like fresh whole black bass. They'll do the same with farm raised salmon. The problem is what happens when Costco or Super Stop and Shop sell commodity products like shrimp and salmon for $2 less per pound than the independent fish store? If the independent store loses customers and revenue on the commodities, they will not be able to afford to continue to stock the wide variety of fish. I've made the decision to buy all of my fish from the independent store, even when it is more expensive than Costco on products where there is no appreciable difference in quality because I want to support them and the variety they offer. Clearly, not everyone feels the same way. Costco is selling a lot of salmon at $4.99 per lb while offering very little variety, at least in the store closest to me. Getting off of food but another example: 5 years ago, there used to be 5 video stores within 2 miles of where I live. There was one store in particular that stocked many independent films to go along with the "Hot New Releases." The owner of the store was undoubtedly able to stock the wide varieties of videos (the independent movies typically are more expensive to purchase than hollywood blockbusters) by renting as many of the mainstreeam movies as possible. Plus, the owner of the store was a real film buff and was able to make wonderful recommendations. Then, Blockbuster came to town and started charging $.50 less than the independent store. I continued to rent from the independent store, even when renting a mainstream movie because I was concerned that Blockbuster would put him out of business and my choices would be limited. Too many others ran to Blockbuster to save the $.50, and sure enough the independent store, as well as 3 of the other independent stores closed up. Blockbuster offers very little variety and they have no incentive to add variety. In addition, unless a movie stars Adam Sandler, the kids working there are clueless when it comes to films. I believe we are at risk of the same thing happening to other areas of the food market. Maybe it won't happen in big cities like NY and Chicago, where there are enough people to continue to support the "little guy" but I'm not optimistic in the suburbs.

I am stunned that neither cork screws or bottle openers were mentioned yet. What fun would cooking be without a glass of wine or bottle of beer?

Now getting back to food. I believe there are many people who when buying food or eating out equate big with good. As long as the restaurant serves big portions, they'll deal with the mediocre food. I believe that thinking goes a long way toward the success of places like The Cheescake Factory, Macaroni Grill, etc. Using my in laws as an example, they'd have far fewer complaints about a place like Macaroni Grill or Carrabas than San Domenico. At Macaroni Grill they'll wait for a table, get rushed into ordering, and have a waiter or waitress be amateurish but as long as their bowl of pasta is overflowing, they're happy. If they went to Sam Domenico, they'd undoubtedly complain about the size of the famous ravioli with the egg and truffle even if was the greatest pasta dish they ever tasted. I think some of the success of the Costco's, Sam's Club, etc also gets to the size of things. I'll never forget the Seinfeld episode when Kramer joins the local wholesale club and buys ridiculous amounts of food for one person, because the value was so good. He ends up feeding the biggest can of Beefaroni you've ever seen to a horse with disastrous results.

I can't remember the exact context but I once heard a well known doctor speak aabout nutrition and longevity. The doctor said that he's had four patients live past 100 and they all had one thing in common: they didn't wear a watch. I have know idea what that has to do with this thread but thought it was interesting.

Maybe it's just a problem with UWS'ers. On another thread, I learned they don't know how to behave in restaurants and now it seems their poor social skills also manifest themselves in food markets. Who new? Regarding Fairway, I love the Harlem branch and usually use that as my main market for big holiday meals, and I live in Connecticut. As FG says, they have by far the best selection of things at great prices. You may be spoiled in NY but in CT it's difficult to find things like good piquillo peppers, good olive oil (for less than an arm and a leg) great meat and poultry selection and produce. The selection of breads from throuout the city can't be beat. I find the staff in Harlem (as well as the customers) friendly and helpful, even at busy times. As for Whole Foods, there is one not too far from where I live and while I think the quality is high, the prices of some things are outrageous. It seems to cost about $50 per shopping bag every time I'm there.

It was just the 2 of us. We easily could've gotten away with one less appetizer but I wanted to try as many things as possible as it is a new spot. With one less appetizer, it would have been $14-15. I don't ususally eat BK myself but if I did, it would probably run $11-12 for the 2 of us. I don't want to come off as preaching here because I believe everyone is free to do what they like and I admit to allowing my daughter to occasionally eat BK and McD. I also use McD a fair amount when I am traveling and getting in late and don't feel like going out. I just wanted to make the point that I don't believe it is too hard to eat more healthy, better tasting food for the same or not much more money. Frankly, I think the hardest part is standing firm and not giving in to our kids. As for time, it probably took a grand total of 10 more minutes to get our food than it would have at BK. And for whatever it's worth, I agree with MatthewB.

Actually did exactly that last night. My daughter was clammoring for BK and instead, we went to a new Thai place (4 tables, mostly take out) literally down the street from BK. We shared cellophane noodle wrapped shrimp with carrots, sprouts, and some other vegetables, chicken satay (real chicken) and sauteed jasmine rice with mixed vegetables. Grand total $20 sharing a large fruit drink. We were comped a sweet rice dessert with Thai custard.

Definitely not. I think the most important aspect of The French Laundry service experienced by me and my friends was that they went out of their way to make us feel comfortable in potentially uncomfortable situations. How much worse can you feel (everything relative of course) than to be so looking forward to what could be the greatest dinner in your life and after ordering the tasting menu you all of a sudden feel like barfing. No one at the restaurant showed any signs of being annoyed or put out and went on to make my wife feel special. Even if they charged for her meal, it would still have been our best service experience ever. Unfortunately, too many other restaurants have service help who seem to be trained in things like giving dirty looks if you so much as show up and ask for your table without your entire party being present. They take what should be a pleasurable experience and make you feel uncomfortable.

More kudos for TFL. I posted about this before but is very applicable to this thread. This was my experience at the French Laundry 2 years ago. Made a reservation for 6. Frankly, I don't remember if they asked for a credit card or not. One of my friends got food poisoning/stomach virus the day of our reservation. We called about 2 hours ahead to let them know we'd be 5. After ordering our dinner, my wife says that she is feeling very nauseated and is not sure if she can eat. Before any food arrives, we tell the waiter the situation. They immediately make her a pot of homegrown herb tea and tell her that they'd like to start her off with something not rich or heavily spiced and no problem, they'll deal with it if she decides not to eat. They bring her over completely different dishes than those served on the tasting menu and continue to monitor how she feels without ever making her feel uncomfortable. The staff notices that she is starting to taste the dishes from the tasting menu which the other 4 of us were enjoying. She starts eating more and more and the oohs and aahs are noticed by the staff. Without saying anything, they start to bring her dishes that are a bit richer and more highly seasoned and then some of the dishes from the tasting menu. They're handling was beyond reproach. The biggest surprise was when we received the bill. They did not charge for my wife's dinner. We made sure that it was not in error and we were assured that it was not. The manager said that they hoped that she would return when she felt better to fully experience The French Laundry. Another one for the French Laundry. Friends of our were there with their parents to celebrate an anniversary. At the last minute, their babysitter cancelled and they were forced to drag their 4 year old with them. When the host/hostess saw the child, she inquired about him without making them feel uncomfortable When told of the babysitter story, she had one of the staffmembers call their wife/girlfriend to come to the restaurant and play outside with the child until their dinner was over. He was also fed. (I doubt he had the oysters and pearls but I'm sure it was good). My friend attempted to pay the woman but she declined and said she was taken care of by the restaurant.

Believe it or not, these glasses are now $29 on Amazon! I was thrilled getting 24 glasses for $100. Silly me.

5 courses in 90 minutes sound rushed to me. Is that typical or was it because you let the servers know you were going to the theater?

No, definitely not a "tourist" place. Owned by Restaurant Associates, it is a solid restaurant in a very nice room. You will not be disappointed, especially with the $50 coupon.

Col. Klink is behind the Sushi Bar.

I only meant to imply that they would probably enjoy the great steaks allegedly served at The Penthouse Club. And yes, all politicians.