Joe H

I've carried bags of Pila Vecia Violane Nano back on planes many times from Italy to make risotto with. I had thought this was considered by most to be the best brand for most risottos. Ferron is something of the King of arborio if you will and this represents the top percentage of his rice. I am curious why Massimiliano chooses another especially considering that this is so close to him. If he did not happen to mention I'll ask him next month.

Thank you sir for the nice words. I am also appreciative that you tried Le Calandre. I first went to it five or six years ago when he was, perhaps, 22 or 23 and just learning. I agree that he is still "evolving" but I also believe he is very close to being one of Italy's and the world's greatest chefs. Years ago some of his attempts did not work or they were a step off; my last visit a year ago, he was very, very close on some, others were total triumphs. Several induced moans. There is also a point about this chef and this restaurant that I believe is well worth mentioning. 125 Euros prix fixe for this level is incredible. Double this in Paris and elsewhere and I still believe that he challenges the best at half the price. We will try the Dal Forno Valpocella on our next visit in early December. In fact we go to Romano Dal Forno that afternoon for a visit that I really anticipate. Some of his amarone is among the best wine of any kind that I have ever tasted. To be able to order this and his other wines at Le Calandre for a "semi-reasonable" price is almost a gift. I was also looking for a restaurant in Verona since I am not a fan of Il Desco. Your comments about Pompiere cemented a decision for me and I thank you. I have not been to Perbellini nor Da Caino but I have been to Gambero Rossi. I would be extremely interested in your thoughts. Your post by the way was an absolute pleasure to read. Finally, have you been to Il Postale in Umbria or La Fornace di Barbeblu?This is the link to a post I had on the 2000 year old Roman era furnace: http://www.chowhound.com/boards/intl/messa...ages/17143.html It probably is the most unique (for lack of a better description) restaurant that I have ever eaten in. Il Postale is not in league with the creative Massimiliano at Calandre. But for what it is there is real excellence...at a more than reasonable price. When I think back to our only meal there it is one of the best that I have had in Italy. Thanks again for taking the time to share your experiences and also for the nice words.

Really interesting post, thanks. And, yes, my God I think you bought the bottle that sat there for three months. Twice I almost bought it. After it was gone I knew was a terrible decision I had made. Please, when you open it. Toast the stranger who made a bad decision in the North End one night. An incredibly small world!

Craig, this is the link to a post that I did on Costco wine in the D. C. area on Chowhound a number of months ago. http://www.chowhound.com/midatlantic/board...ages/20400.html It's relevant for a number of reasons including the Super Tuscans such as Solaia at $119, Sassicaia for $129 (I think am certain of all the other prices), Sammarco for $59, etc. In the linked post I talk about how fast certain 2000 bordeaux were selling despite the Iraqi war and the Bush administration's attempts to discredit the French. (I'm trying to be non political here but I am not the world's biggest Bush supporter.) Today, the Costcos in Fairfax and Chantilly, VA have the 2000 Solaia still on their shelves. The Fairfax store has had it at this price for over two months, Chantilly about three weeks but that was when they received it and only a few bottles have sold. But point is that top end Italian wine-at least Super Tuscans-don't move like some bordeaux. I've only tasted Dal Forno once in my life and it was incredible! But I love amarone and this was just awesome. My reaction to it was almost as strong as when I first tasted 1990 Avignonesi Vin Santo which is the best dessert wine of any kind that I have ever had. I mention both of these because they are incredible wines, hard to find yet don't enjoy the status of some of the French and California here. Perhaps because they don't move that quickly stores are less reluctant to stock them-if they can get them. I honestly don't know. But if I do a search on Wine-Searcher I can find Dal Forno in the U. S.; if I walk into a store in D. C. I doubt that they will have it. I saw a bottle of '91 Avignonesi sit on a shelf in a wine shop in Boston's North End for three months without it being sold. In Fierenze I remember Ama's L'Apparita only being sold as part of a mixed six pack for a tremendous price-it was that hard to get. Here, you can go into some D. C. stores and they've had it on the shelf for months. Point is again top end Italian doesn't move as fast as others. Result is that it is harder to find because most stores don't carry it but when you do there's usually not a large markup. Anyway, all of this stuff excepting the L'Apparita could be found by me in Italy for what I thought were reasonable prices. Even the Avignonesi which I have bought many years in Panzano. Aimo y Nadia was early last December. Ridiculously expensive but my wife and I tried to sample as much as we could. I felt that he was trying to be creative but that a lot of combinations just didn't work very well. At Le Calandre there was a similar trial period. Four or five years ago there were a lot of misses. Now, for me, he's more than justified his three stars. The combination of flavors and textures, the creativity-it has all just come together. At the Milano restaurant it is falling apart from what I can see. Two stars to one. Il Desco was a December trip three or four years ago. Intesting point about wine. I ordered a Sammarco and when they presented it they did not decant it; just opened it and poured it straight into the glass. I asked them to pour it into a decanter so it could breathe for a bit. I felt that in a two star this was inexcusable. GR gives this a 52 for food. I just think it's unexceptional other than one spectacular chocolate combination dessert which was around 25 or 30 Euros. I also didn't really think the ambience was anything exceptional. Today I can afford to drink the Lafite. In ten years when I retire I may need to sell every bottle. Still, it's a choice worth having. Thanks.

To really put this on the next level, 2000 Lafite was $299.99 per bottle at Costco selling out twice in two stores in several hours each times. In Paris at Hediard I noted 650 Euros or about $750 at the current rate of exchange. I saw a bottle in Reims a a Carrefour and it was still 450 or so Euros. The Costco price is because they are selling it for an earlier futures price and passing along the savings. The Carrefour price-even at dollar for Euro-is approximately the same as at many stores in the U. S. Even lesser bordeaux are expensive in smaller towns in France now. Years ago, like Italy, I would bring back a lot of wine. Now I rarely do unless it's something that I can't get here. Some wines are an investment of sorts. I have a case of the 2000 Lafite and in ten years I may sell it or I may drink some of it. It's a decision I'll make then but I feel comfortable that despite the cost I bought it at a low enough price that I'll be OK. Same with '97 Solaia and others depending on the price paid. I'm also now looking at Romano Dal Forno and what that might be worth in ten years depending on what I can buy it for. The problem with this wine is that it seems to be over 200 Euros everywhere and in America you can only occasionally find it and then, it's close to $400. But for everyday wine I'm probably around $10-13 a bottle with most of that bought on sale. I actually agree with you about a top bottle of wine being almost wasted with a meal but I still think there is a place for a better bottle. For example the '99 Giramonte is really delicious. It also needs a couple of hours to open up. I've served this before a meal at home and, say, a Querciabella CCR with the meal. I think the Giramonte would have been lost with it but for the Chianti it worked really well. In restaurants I tend to stay away from expensive bottles because of markup as much as any other reason focusing on wines like Querciabella or even a Sammarco. But to come full circle in this, Le Calandre has a small markup on many bottles whether Ama's CC or even Dal Forno's Amarone which is still expensive. Il Postale has a small markup. Restaurants like da Fiore are through the roof and the previously mentioned EP which I have not been to I understand is almost obscene. Aimo y Nadia, a personal disappointment, was very high also.

Bologna is not exactly a town frequented by a lot of American tourists. Also, I've found that I can buy Fontodi and Felsina in the U. S. for about $20 or 21 a bottle which is about the same with the current exchange as in Italy. Further Allegrini has a very good less expensive wine called Palazza Della Torre which I can buy on sale here for about $13 a bottle. This is the same as in Verona.

If I factor in the difference in the Euro vs the dollar the difference is even greater. I tend to think of the Euro as on par with the dollar.

I'm sorry but I travel in Italy 10 to 15 days a year on business throughout the whole country. Almost all top end wine has dramatically appreciated in price. Specifically, Super Tuscans such as Solaia that were 120,000 lira for the '93-96 starting with the '97 went to almost 200 Euros. Evn lesser vintages afterwards didn't see much of a reduction with Solaia still over 150 Euros (300,000 lira) a bottle. You can follow this through with virtually every Super Tuscan. I'm not focusing on places like Alessi in Fierenze which has almost everything but rather smaller enotecas, say, in Bologna off of the Via Independenza which is quite good and use to have a lot of bargains. Enoteca Baldi in Panzano is quite good and more reasonable than either of these two. Still, at a certain level, wine has dramatically appreciated. CC's aren't as bad although I agree with your point here about certain produces such as Ama whose wines have gone up. Since the late '80's I have carried as many as 12 or more bottles of wine back to the states with me on trips because of prices that were approximately half of the U. S. price. Today, I can find better prices in Costco for some of the same wines that I use to carry back from Italy. Last week 2000 Solaia was $119.95 at the Costco in Chantilly, VA. Sassicaia, Ornellaia, Tiganello were all similarly priced much less than Italy. In fact I was just in Bologna about six weeks ago shaking my head at how much prices have gone up.

I didn't ask for a lecture. I've been eating all over Italy for 15 or more years. I said top end wine. It has gone up 50% or more. Period. I've eaten in three stars such as Calandre and Pescatore and hundreds of little mom and pop places as well. I haven't missed anything. I suggest before you lecture someone you ask them what their experiences have been.

Le Calandre also has a very reasonably priced wine list if such a thing exists in Italy today. After the conversion to the Euro many top end wines went up 50% or more in price in shops. I love Le Calandre and believe it to be my favorite restaurant in Italy. Gambero Rosso is superb also but I still prefer Calandre. Il Desco was a huge disappointment on my only visit three years ago. If there is a food rating that is too high, in my opinion, it would be Il Desco. If there is a food rating that is too low it would be the 50 points given to Il Postale which I feel should be perhaps two points higher. I have not been to Ambrasciata but will visit it on back to back nightwith le Calandre in a bout a month.

Bux, I apologize if I seemed disrespectful. That was not my intention at all. Rather, I believe that I am just taking the argument that El Bulli is pushing the culinary edge and exploring new, perhaps even taboo (to some/to some cultures) "food" as the next level of development. A level that he may have to ascend/descend to for new ideas. Certainly, some of what is currently being served represents a creative, adventurous attempt to discover new tastes, textures, temperatures and sensorial experiences. At some point it would seem to me that he will be forced to cross a boundary, as it were, and attempt to reintroduce that which was formerly unacceptible to many, but in a palatable form, perhaps even a more than acceptible form that might represent a new, even enlightening perspective for viewing that which formerly was branded as disgusting. Having said all this (and I do realize this argument is epistemological) there must be some line that is crossed. I'm just asking where is the line? Is it far enough along that excrement-in some form-is acceptible? Is it far enough along that a human placenta is acceptible? (http://www.tabloid.net/1998/05/29/D3.html) is an interesting link for this, providing documentation for this as a foodstuff to some, fried with garlic and televised on British television. Or is the line beyond this?What if El Bulli had served the garlic fried placenta? Would that have made it any more legitimate? And, then of course, how many on this board would push themselves along that line just because it is being drawn by El Bulli? Anyway, all of this is only cerebral. I have no interest in this restaurant, no interest in the direction it is going and no interest in the type of "food" it is serving. There are some things which simply aren't going into my mouth for any reason. Some of what is being served at El Bulli is among this. But this is me. And it is not important that I sway anyone else's opinion on this board. Yet I am curious how far some of you will go and that is why I bring up the examples that I do.

I am just curious but at what point does one draw the line? Obviously, my "line" is considerably less adventurous than many who have participated in this discussion. Yet in what I now feel is somewhat relevant, one of the two chefs that I originally mentioned, said to me several months ago in describing the meal that he "thought that one of the courses the next night would be sheeet." Literally, feces. After saying this he laughed and said that people would eat it because it was El Bulli "sheeet." There are some cultures in the world where feces and urine are consumed for various reasons. What if he were to fashion some kind of revelatory dish using excrement? Say, pig excrement. Perhaps the treatment allowed whatever the taste may be to be fairly distant, even overshadowed by other flavors. Still, my question is, would a truly, spectacularly adventurous challenging dish which incorporated pig excrement as one its ingredients be a consideration for you on your next visit to El Bulli? If your answer is no, then I must ask why not? Why do you draw the line at this? And, if no line is drawn for this, where would you draw the line? How far would someone go in consuming that which is considered "taboo" just because it is served at El Bulli? I can't help but think of a show that I saw on Alfred Hitchcock along with a similar story that I read in EC's Vault of Horror, both in the '50's (yes, '50's) about a restaurant that was considered the best in the world. Diners had no idea that the meat they were eating was breathing and walking a street the day before. Yet the flavors were so profound, so intense, so different from that which any other restaurant anywhere else in the world could offer. I believe this is a logical extension of the discussion above given the criteria of spectacular, adventurous apparently limitless exploration for new revelatory experiences that no one else on earth is doing. Comments?

I cancelled our reservation. It was not an issue of not being able to get in. (At the time I had several posts on here of how I got in. Also, I don't know of a single person on either here or Chowhound who contacted them in the first hour or two of the first day and did NOT get in. It was widely publicized on both boards. Those who contacted them later in the first day or second did not receive a confirmation. But again, there must have been fifteen or more between the two boards who DID get in. If we're talking about challenges for reservations then perhaps we should talk about Eiginsinn Farm north of Toronto which I personally have found more difficult to get into than either El Bulli or the French Laundry (yes, I'v been)) Also, travelling 35-40 days a year in Europe on business it was not an issue of being able to get there. This isn't about that. It's about the best restaurant in the world having food that tastes good. My value judgment. Nothing more. Nothing less. As for participating in discussions I'm not going to be much of a participant if my values include food tasting good and others have values that focus on sensorial challenges and "getting in" along with who is "hot" and who isn't. Further, some of the "food" that is presented at El Bulli is beginning to approach some of the, for me, bizarre and repulsive dishes found in parts of Indonesia, China and Vietnam. I simply have no interest in any of this nor of being at a table where it is served. There is a 300+ course Chinese banquet that lasts three or more days and may feature live a monkey. THAT would be sensorially challenging. I can't imagine monkey brains, bat, bear's paw, etc. tasting good. At least not by my standards. No, El Bulli isn't there yet. But for him to continue to come up with something new, constantly searching new levels, new "challenges," new textures, is this really such a leap? Frankly, from what I've read doesn't he already have elements of it? At least the author for the Observer seems to think so. And this may be just the point: for the first several years he was fantastically successful and justly rewarded in the press for this. But overtime, faced with new challenges, new levels, perhaps he is being forced in a direction that for some crosses a line. Rabbit's brains lined up in a row don't seem to have a lot in common with foam and test tubes. I really don't need to sit at a table and take a bite-or even look at it-to know that I'm not interested. There are many restaurants that others have liked, perhaps have liked a lot, that for me have very little interest. The Observer article only confirmed what Lizzee reported in starting this whole several hundred page thread. For me. Of course when Eiginsinn Farm is noted as the number one restaurant in the world by someone (it's already top ten in the world for several) there will be a real rush to try to get into it. At least they serve real food that tastes good as does the French Laundry.

Bux, just a quick comment but when I make value judgments about where to eat whether in the U. S., Europe or elsewhere it is based on what I read (I'm VERY good at doing research), what the menu tells me, what reviewers describe, comments on this and other boards and so forth. Since this topic was started 170 or so posts ago I feel that I have learned enough about El Bulli that it is not the type of restaurant that I would typically like. I do travel to Barcelona on business every year. Having said this there have been a number of posts that have led me to research on five or six restaurants that I would really like to seek out and explore. All of them seem exactly like the kind of place that I really will like. For me-and perhaps for no one else on here-El Bulli sounds exactly like a waste of calories and a waste of money as well as a waste of my time (perhaps the restaurant's wasting a table on me, too!). Much of my criticism is based on what I think I will like. When my comments go beyond my own personal taste it is because I seem to think the rules of the games (so to speak) are changing. Now we are no longer into taste but into sensorial discovery. But, again, there's nothing wrong with sensorial discovery. But what I'm discovering must taste good. Too many people have told me that there are many things at El Bulli that do not taste good. I'll stay in or near Barcelona on my next trip. A year ago I wanted to have dinner at El Bulli very bad. (Frankly, it was also a compettion to "get in.") Today, with what I have learned from several whose opinions I trust, I have lost interest.

Estufarian, thanks for remembering that Can Fabes was a truly memorable meal for me! Pedro, I also appreciate your comments. But while I'm adventurous there are some limits and I am really quite guilty of prejudging, based on the opinions of several, that El Bulli is probably not for me. My real problem here is that the two chefs I mentioned I feel are as good in their own way as anyone on earth. From each I have tasted dishes that were intense, satisfying, damn near orgasmic they were so hauntingly delicious. Knowing that THEIR sense of taste seems to be similar to mine (based on having eaten a great deal of their cuisine) I'm projecting a similar reaction to El Bulli on my part. But there are also others. There are two on this and anther board that I have corresponded with privately over the past year or so that were not fully enamored with El Bulli. I have a great deal of respect for both of their opinions based on what I believe to be their taste. In both cases it seems to be close to mine. I also believe there are some who are also blinded by the opinions of others and too, perhaps, intimidated to disagree if they really believe that others may be inaccurate in their own evaluation. Finally, for me, as I've noted whether it's a hamburger or foam it has to taste good. That is the beginning and end of everything for me. Texture, temperature, contrast of all kinds: all of this is wonderful IF IT TASTES GOOD. Still, for everything I have read in the 200+ pages of this topic I have seen nothing to convince me that there is anything happening at El Bulli that is going to provide the pleasure of taste that I could find at, say, a bbq pit in Luling, Texas or one of five of what I would call "Great Dishes" at El Raco de Can Fabes on a night when a Michelin two starred chef sat at an adjoining table and we were served everything he was served for almost 4 hours. In fact for everything that I have read on this and other boards, books and magazines about El Bulli the focus is not about tasting something that is one of the great pleasures of one's life. Rather it's about a new level of sensorial experience. For me it's about taste. Nothing more, nothing less. At 56 years of age when someone tells me about the best restaurant they ever went to I immediately assume that this is THE BEST TASTING MEAL that they ever had. Never do I assume that it is a sensorially challenging or awakening event. I judged Robuchon, Santimaria, Ducasse and a whole host of restaurants, chefs and home cooks over the years on what their food/cuisine tasted like. I'm not going to change. If I'm going to cross an ocean I'll go back to Le Calandre and Ambrasciata (December), Gagnaire, Christian Constant & others(January) or a 2000 year old furnace west of Genoa & Baldin in the spring. There may be some experimentation at several of these but overall I know that most of what I will eat will taste really good. And will not challenge me. I'm just not about "food" that challenges me.

Despite the euphoria on this board I know of at least four people who would not go back to El Bulli if the meal were free. There was also a post from Lizzee perhaps a year ago on here where she related a story of an experience there with two famous chefs, one of whom swore he would not return the second day although he was to be the guest of honor. I met that man along with the other chef at the table. They both thought that the restaurant was a joke. Not only did Lizzee not exaggerate rather she understated their real opinions. Both of these, by the way, are James Beard Award winners. Their opinions also played a role in my wife and I deciding not to go to El Bulli when we cancelled our reservation in April. Since then I've read with true interest all on this board who have raved about their own experiences much in the way that the writer couldn't believe those sitting across from her eating rabbit brains and figuratively moaning while they were doing it. El Bulli for these four seems to have justified its exalted status with extreme instances of sensorial challenge, often forgetting that most people require a dish to taste GOOD as a prerequisite. No, I have not been. But after what seems to be an accurate recounting of the experience the four others had I no longer feel the need. There are other restaurants that I will continue to cross an ocean for. El Bulli is not one of them.

Interesting. Several of you don't even pay attention to 80% of what I write which gives me a feeling of a complete waste of my time on this board. You live in the D. C. area, write at length about Central American culture that manifests itself in a line at a fast food chicken import, yet show absolutely no interest in D. C. traditions before you were born and home grown lines. (And you live here!) Or, most importantly for me, no one has said a word about how food has evolved to the point that cooking correctly from scratch is worth a joke and standing over an hour in line for fast food is justified. It doesn't seem to matter to anyone on here that standards have changed this much, nor is there any apparent interest in finding what something use to, what it really SHOULD taste like. Unbelievable. And this is suppose to be for people who are passionately into food. I knew a girl once who thought beef stroganoff was hamburger stroganoff from a package. When I made stroganoff from scratch with filet, sour cream, etc. she appeared totally unfamiliar with it. It then that she told me that her mother cooked from a box, she'd never had it from scratch before. I never cooked for her again. I really am on the WRONG board.

Vengroff: Anita's actually has a legitimately good breakfast burrito. Also, the reason I focused on age was because so many things really began to change in the '60's; this is why I specifically cited under 40 in age. For instance it was in 1967 that McDonald's nationwide went from fresh potatoes which they sliced themselves and left the skin on, then blanched and hung on a rack overnight, then fried in 70% animal fat to frozen potatoes. Incrimentally they changed the oil to what it is today. BUT in the fall of 1967 when they did this I was going to college. A lot of us were ADDICTED to these french fries and survived on them. They ran a major marketing campaign telling the public they have IMPROVED their french fries, they were more consistent in the product they were putting out. We were devastated! This forced me into considering salads and other vegetables for the first time in my life. Their new fries were lousy in comparison. In the '70's they went to frozen patties just as they expanded their menus. (Originally they sold only three things: hamburgers, french fries and shakes/drinks. Nothing else; in the mid '50's they didn't even have double hamburgers.) But many, many places were like McDonald's and during this period of the '60's and into the '70's many went through enormous changes. This is why I mention age-no other reason. I've been all over West Texas, I've even seen Mojo play Lee in Permian's stadium although I was the only person with an "accent" then. While this isn't West Texas I still go to Amarillo, Lubbock and El Paso but in El Paso I usually cross the border and go into Juarez to eat at one of several places. Lubbock has a couple of Mom and Pop Mexican places that are dirt cheap and phenominal; I was introduced to them by a friend who was born there. My real focus in Texas has been bbq and the area between Austin and San Antonio. Places like the Luling City Market, Smitty's and Black's in Lockhart or the Kreuz Market from before it was sold, links in Elgin, Cooper's and others. But these places are getting harder to find, a lot of people don't want to take the time and effort anymore to do it the old way. The day will come when brisket is talked about the same way I'm talking about french fries or pan fried chicken. From over twenty years of travel there every year I see another place that has closed.

hjshorter:There is more to food than just taste. These people are willing to stand in line because it's a taste of HOME to them, not because it's the best chicken in the world. As a foodie and an future anthropologist, I find that fascinating. What's wrong with that? "While the chicken is excellent overall this is really a social event. 100% of the 50+ people in line at 10 Sunday morning were Hispanic with many running into people they knew. Most were getting larger orders and taking it elsewhere, only five or six of 50+ actually decided to eat in the store. For them this was literally a taste and an event from home." This is an excerpt from my post above; this is the third time that I've noted saying it yet you continue, as you did above, to bring it up. I agree with you. For the third time.

Bilrus: "While the chicken is excellent overall this is really a social event. 100% of the 50+ people in line at 10 Sunday morning were Hispanic with many running into people they knew. Most were getting larger orders and taking it elsewhere, only five or six of 50+ actually decided to eat in the store. For them this was literally a taste and an event from home." This is an excerpt from my post above. Of course it's interesting; but it's still fast food fried chicken. No more, no less. Mrs.J wrote: "This is right down the road from us in Herndon. I've been looking for authentic fried chicken for awhile now and am so excited to see this opened so close by. Just informed Mr. J that we're going to have to make a visit there soon!" This is not authentic fried chicken. Authentic fried chicken is fried in a cast iron skillet. Both of these quotes lead to the real point of my post: I'm guessing that both of you are relatively young, perhaps 35 or 40 or less. I say this because so many people have FORGOT what really good food, even simple food, really tastes like. Or never knew it when they grew up. People rave about Five Guys, I rave about In 'n Out Burger in CA; but there was a time when most hamburgers were as good as these, even a Hot Shoppes Mighty Mo or a Tops Sir Loiner. A lot of places had really authentic pan fried chicken where you waited 30 to 40 minutes for it after you ordered it. Why? Because that's how long it took to cook it. Only to order. Stroud's in Kansas City has it today. Around here, as recently as three or so years ago the original Crisfield's in Silver Spring offered real made to order pan fried chicken that was fried in, I believe, pure Crisco. So many people have forgotten what really good homemade American food tastes like. We talk about Neilsen's or Milwaukee Frozen Custard or Thomas Sweet, etc. How many have ever really had real home made ice cream made with a hand cranked freezer using pasteurized cream, not ultra pasteurized? How many have ever even seen cream top milk? How many have ever used real fresh strawberries or peaches to make ice cream? I am reacting the way that I am to Campero for one simple reason: this IS excellent fast food chicken. But it is only that. The lines are there for a social reason NOT because this tastes anywhere near as good as what you could make at home if you knew how to do it. One last comment: I have a black cast iron skillet that is over 100 years old that was handed down to me through three generations. It has NEVER been near soap. The crust is a 1/4 inch thick. Pork chops, chicken, anything fried in this skilet is just unbelievably good. Combined with french fries fried in pure lard which no longer exist in the D. C. area this is one of America's best meals. Forty, fifty years ago a lot of places served it, it could be found in most homes, just as people went to real markets because supermarkets had only begun to open in this area. I'm NOT attacking anyone on this board; rather I just find it sad that so few of you really seem to have ever experienced food as good as it could be. So many things have been compromised, so many have changed. Once upon a time McDonald's was good, Gifford's was the standard bearer for store bought ice cream and Benny's had a five inch fish sandwich on the Maine Avenue wharf made with fresh perch, served with fries cooked in lard. Benny's had lines on Saturday night as long as Campero in the 50's; Stephenson's bakery in Anacostia did also. Well over an hour long every Sunday morning. These were D. C. traditions. Even the first McDonald's on Richmond Highway in Hybla Valley had lines thirty yards long to the far end of the golden arches when they opened in the mid '50's. They also used fresh hamburger, fried potatoes in 70% animal fat and scooped ice cream for their milk shakes. All of these really good food that tasted awfully much like real homemade. They don't exist anymore. I can't help but be critical of what has taken their place.

Wait a minute! This is not that big of a deal unless you are Hispanic and grew up with this chain that ripped off American chains. I'm being serious. The chicken is excellent but it's NOT as good as Popeye's spicy WHEN Popeye's is served hot from the oil AND THE OIL WAS CHANGED THE NIGHT BEFORE. Nor is at any better than Bojangle's under the same circumstances. I've linked reviews of it which show that not everyone who goes automatically falls in love with it. http://www.b4-u-eat.com/houston/restaurant...ews/rsv2594.asp http://u.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,211~...1703191,00.html This last link to the restaurant critic of a Los Angeles newspaper commenting on the incredible lines and comparing it to Kentucky Fried Chicken. I think a lot of people on this board are really impressed with lines formed for social reasons that have little to do with how something really tastes! This is excellent chicken, but there is no way that it justifies the lines that you all seem to think it does. It also has absolutely nothing in common with fresh chicken tossed in flour and egg and other seasonings then fried in Crisco or Fluffo in a black cast iron skillet that is well seasoned. If anyone thinks this is really good chicken then I 'm going to suggest that they've never had really good fried chicken. Incredible that so many of you will jump on a bandwagon!

The dipping sauce for Campero's chicken nuggets was commercially packaged ranch dressing; this was a disappointment since I had expected something along the lines of Crisp 'n Juicy where I also order extra sauce. But again, Campero's beans were really good reminiscent of Rio Grande Cafe.

I put a lengthy post on Chowhound about my experience yesterday morning. I disagree with you in part. The rice was terrible, bland, flavorless. French fries were frozen shoe string potatoes that were fairly good for frozen potatoes. We really liked the beans while we thought the cole slaw tasted like commercial slaw from a grocery store. The nuggets were large and meaty but totally unlike their fried chicken which is what 95% of the people were ordering. They were dried out and no better than McDonald's except for their larger size. The chicken was excellent fast food chicken, succulent almost with larger breasts. Where we disagree is that Popeye's Spicy I believe is better IF YOU BUY IT THE NIGHT AFTER THEY CHANGE THE GREASE which is twice a week. And if it is freshly fried as opposed to sitting in the warmer for a lengthy time. Years ago I would time trips to Popeye's from Mondays and Fridays since the grease was physically changed on the nights before. (I have no idea if this is still done.) Other days Popeye's, especially if it has sat in their warmer, is absolutely mediocre at best. But freshly fried chicken the night after their grease is changed is remarkably good. What you get at Campero is freshly fried for every piece since they were constantly running out of chicken. While the chicken is excellent overall this is really a social event. 100% of the 50+ people in line at 10 Sunday morning were Hispanic with many running into people they knew. Most were getting larger orders and taking it elsewhere, only five or six of 50+ actually decided to eat in the store. For them this was literally a taste and an event from home. Still, whether Popeye's, Bojangles, Campero or fried in a black cast iron seasoned skillet in Fluffo at home (the best of all) I still prefer Peruvian rotisserie chicken such as at Crisp and Juicy with their sauces.

The Herndon police closed the line at 8:30 this evening since the restaurant was closing at...11:00PM. I was told that the line had stretched to in excess of three hours earlier in the evening. At 9:15 when we drove by there were still over 100 people line up outside for this "social event." (The line was almost exclusively Hispanic.) The menu looks amazingly like Popeye's with mashed potatoes, french fries, cole slaw, spicy rice and beans along with nuggets and wings. As I noted on another board the Cheesecake Factory at the Tyson's Galleria also had a two and one half hour line this evening.

Steve, the Whole Foods is Vienna is an excellent store, as good as any that I have found in their entire chain, probably better than any other in the area. While it's not perfect it sets a standard for the others to live up to. To take it another step I actually feel lucky that it is so close to me knowing just how bad some of their other stores can be. If you haven't been to it yet you really should take a look at it. Nearby is Neilsen's which is D. C.'s best frozen custard.